Hi Folks

While rummaging through the attic of the Laramie Depot, I came across a box of Union Pacific Freight Conductors' Train Books. There are 128 of them, mostly from June, 1937, to August, 1938. I believe that the majority are for the run between Laramie and Rawlins on the UP mainline. All are brittle, but all except one appear to be readable. I'm in the process of transcribing the data from one of them (from 5/13/1938 to 6/21/1938, conductor Ferguson) to an Excel file and hope to have a preliminary analysis complete within a few days. Perhaps the information from these books will shed some light on the issue of freight car distribution. Here is a list of the from/to dates for these books, and the conductor.

From, To, Conductor
7/27/1935, 12/27/1938, Harvey
1/4/1937, 8/5/1937, Tracy
3/12/1937, 6/25/1937, Young
5/4/1937, 6/8/1937, Crall
6/8/1937, 8/15/1937, Crall
6/28/1937, 9/27/1937, Young
7/13/1937, 8/13/1937, Gaskill
8/5/1937, 9/8/1937, Tracy
8/14/1937, 9/25/1937, Gaskill
8/16/1937, 9/15/1937, Sollars
9/26/1937, 10/31/1937, Crall
9/26/1937, 11/7/1937, Gaskill
10/1/1937, 10/30/1937, Marts
10/1/1937, 11/6/1937, Orleans
10/1/1937, 12/27/1937, Young
10/11/1937, 11/19/1937, Helm
10/18/1937, 8/1/1938, Young
11/1/1937, 8/15/1938, Marts
11/2/1937, 12/10/1937, Crall
11/7/1937, 9/6/1938, Orleans
11/8/1937, 12/24/1937, Gaskill
11/13/1937, 12/31/1937, Brackley
11/29/1937, 12/31/1937, Stone
11/29/1937, 12/18/1937, Wallick
12/9/1937, 2/17/1938, Callison
12/10/1937, 12/31/1937, Aukland
12/11/1937, 1/15/1938, Crall
12/19/1937, 12/29/1937, Helm
12/29/1937, 2/5/1938, Gaskill
12/29/1937, 4/18/1938, Young
1/1/1938, 2/22/1938, Stone
1/16/1938, 2/17/1938, Crall
2/6/1938, 3/31/1938, Gaskill
2/18/1938, 3/29/1938, Crall
2/23/1938, 3/29/1938, Stone
2/28/1938, 4/30/1938, Keller
3/5/1938, 4/7/1938, Cameron
3/17/1938, 9/24/1938, Helm
3/18/1938, 4/22/1938, Byrne
3/30/1938, 4/30/1938, Crall
4/4/1938, 5/9/1938, Gaskill
4/17/1938, 6/26/1938, Estes
4/19/1938, 5/14/1938, Vasconcellos
4/27/1938, 6/27/1938, Unknown
5/2/1938, 6/8/1938, Crall
5/4/1938, 9/11/1938, Fraley
5/13/1938, 6/21/1938, Ferguson
5/15/1938, 6/24/1938, Paslicon
5/15/1938, 6/10/1938, Vasconcellos
6/10/1938, 7/11/1938, Crall
6/11/1938, 9/14/1938, Fitz
6/11/1938, 7/18/1938, Vasconcellos
7/12/1938, 8/16/1938, Crall
7/17/1938, 8/20/1938, McCullagh
7/19/1938, 9/2/1938, Vasconcellos
7/28/1938, 8/31/1938, Fredericks
8/3/1938, 10/31/1938, Young
8/4/1938, 9/6/1938, Ferguson
8/6/1938, 9/2/1938, McKaig
8/8/1938, 9/9/1938, Cameron
8/21/1938, 9/25/1938, McCullagh
9/3/1938, 10/6/1938, McKaig
9/4/1938, 10/5/1938, Fredericks
9/4/1938, 10/4/1938, Vasconcellos
9/8/1938, 10/15/1938, Orleans
9/9/1938, 10/5/1938, Callison
9/11/1938, 10/15/1938, Sollars
9/12/1938, 10/18/1938, Fraley
9/13/1938, 10/22/1938, Estes
9/14/1938, 11/21/1938, Estes
9/15/1938, 10/24/1938, Fitz
9/19/1938, 12/31/1938, George
9/25/1938, 10/27/1938, Estes
9/26/1938, 10/31/1938, McCullagh
10/1/1938, 11/1/1938, Bower
10/1/1938, 10/31/1938, Marts
10/5/1938, 11/8/1938, Callison
10/5/1938, 10/31/1938, Vasconcellos
10/6/1938, 11/6/1938, McKaig
10/7/1938, 11/6/1938, Fredericks
10/11/1938, 11/21/1938, Stone
10/15/1938, 11/24/1938, Cameron
10/16/1938, 12/9/1938, Orleans
10/28/1938, 12/30/1938, Estes
10/31/1938, 11/30/1938, Keller
11/1/1938, 12/31/1938, Marts
11/1/1938, 11/23/1938, Vasconcellos
11/1/1938, 2/10/1939,, Young
11/2/1938, 12/26/1938, Stone
11/18/1938, 1/23/1939, Branch
11/19/1938, 1/23/1939, Vasconcellos
11/25/1938, 1/8/1939, Cameron
11/26/1938, 12/31/1938, Aukland
12/1/1938, 12/31/1938, Keller
12/10/1938, 1/17/1939, Callison
12/20/1938, 3/29/1939, Helm
12/23/1938, 2/3/1939, Estes
1/1/1939, 2/1/1939, Aukland
1/1/1939, 5/25/1939, Marts
1/14/1939, 2/22/1939, Bower
1/15/1939, 2/22/1939, Estes
1/17/1939, 2/24/1939, Brackley
1/24/1939, 3/24/1939, Branch
1/28/1939, 3/5/1939, Crall
2/1/1939, 3/1/1939, Aukland
2/6/1939, 3/21/1939, Paslicon
2/13/1939, 6/14/1939, Young
2/24/1939, 3/31/1939, Crout
2/26/1939, 8/12/1939, Lamicha
3/2/1939, 3/31/1939, Aukland
4/1/1939, 5/11/1939, Brackley
4/4/1939, 7/22/1939, Stitt
4/5/1939, 5/6/1939, Vasconcellos
5/3/1939, 6/15/1939, McKaig
5/7/1939, 6/12/1939, Vasconcellos
5/28/1939, 7/4/1939, Gaskill
6/11/1939, 7/11/1939, Helm
6/16/1939, 9/22/1939, Young
6/27/1939, 7/31/1939, Marts
6/29/1939, 8/8/1939, Fraley
7/11/1939, 8/28/1939, Crall
7/12/1939, 8/13/1939, Helm
9/24/1939, 12/22/1939, Young
3/23/1943, 5/8/1943, Estes
10/26/1951, 12/6/1951, Traud
10/13/?, 11/15/?, Cordiner
10/7/?, 11/17/?, Ferguson
9/1/?, 10/9/?, Callison

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

Wow, what a gold mine!!

I am expecting confirmation that N&W coal hoppers were regularly used on the UP!

gary laakso
south of Mike "da judge" Brock
vasa0vasa@...

Larry Ostresh wrote:

While rummaging through the attic of the Laramie Depot, I came across a box of Union Pacific Freight Conductors' Train Books. There are 128 of them, mostly from June, 1937, to August, 1938.

Your first sentence, Larry, qualifies as one of the great dramatic sentences ever posted on this list . . . <g> and maybe we will finally have more than snapshot data on freight car movements. More power to you, Larry.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Regarding the UP frt conductor books, Larry sent me copies of two trains. Coincidentally, the trains ran on May 13 and May 14 which is interesting to me since my layout simulates May 14 although, of course, any date in the period May/June works. Anyhow, the eastbound train consists primarily of PFE cars carrying lettuce and peas. Following UP practice as noted in my 1949 books, UP did little car blocking on EBs, the rear of the train containing box cars containing lbr and bottles and one GATX tank car...#970...containing wine interspersed within the PFE cars. I assume the train would be iced at Laramie although I don't know the tempature in Laramie which could be anything within 40� and 75� at the 1135AM arrival time.

One thing that might be interesting is to compare train operation and tonnage between 1938 and 1949. The two 1938 trains were pulled by 3919 and 3926, early 4-6-6-4's, the EB with 73 cars, 3335 tons, in route from Rawlins [ MP 683 ] 6:10AM to Laramie [ MP 566 ] 1010AM, 117 miles, 29.25 mph avg [ 97548 ton miles ] . The WB contained primarily PFE MTs, 74 cars, 1950 tons, in route from 540PM Laramie until 935PM to Rawlins...29.87 MPH [ 58246 ton miles ].

Randomly selected train on April 3, 1949, pulled by late 4-6-6-4 3986, 72 cars, 3585 tons, left Rawlins at 420PM, arrived Laramie at 740PM. 35MPH [ 125475 ton miles ]. And April 9, 1949, WB Big Boy 4018, 93 cars, 3300 tons [ 78 MTs ], left Laramie at 130P, arrived Rawlins 530P...4 hrs, 29.25 mph [ 96525 ton miles ]. Hmmm. On April 21, 1949, diesels 1454, 1450, and 1419 left Laramie at 315P, arrived Rawlins at 720P with 81 cars, 3884 tons. 28.65 mph [ 111288 ton miles/hr ]. April 15, Big Boy 4006 left Laramie at 605P, arrived Rawlins 905P...85 cars, 4152 tons. 39 mph [ 161928 ton miles/hr ].

The winner? Big Boy 4006. While conclusions from these data are extremely unreliable because we have no information regarding track conditions [ read that...other trains that might be in the way ], it IS noteworthy that UP found Big Boys superior to a 3 unit diesel at speeds above 25 mph and late Challengers to be equal to a 3 unit diesel at speeds above 25 mph.

Mike Brock

Mike Brock wrote

... While conclusions from these data are extremely unreliable ....
it IS noteworthy that UP found Big Boys superior to a 3 unit diesel
at speeds above 25 mph and late Challengers to be equal to a 3 unit
diesel at speeds above 25 mph.

Mike

Is this finding related to the random data you posted, or are you
referring to some other documentation?

Tim O'Connor

Mike Brock wrote:

The winner? Big Boy 4006. While conclusions from these data are extremely unreliable because we have no information regarding track conditions [ read that...other trains that might be in the way ], it IS noteworthy that UP found Big Boys superior to a 3 unit diesel at speeds above 25 mph and late Challengers to be equal to a 3 unit diesel at speeds above 25 mph.

Ah, if only Sherman Hill could have been consistently operated above 25 mph -- but I assume by "performance" you mean pulling power, or over-the-road speed. Problem is, the diesel was available about a third more hours per month and used 40% of the fuel (though more expensive fuel). Very few railroads which did careful tests thought the comparison was anywhere close in overall operating and maintenance behavior. But this ain't a "steam age" list for locomotives.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Tim O'Connor writes:

Is this finding related to the random data you posted, or are you
referring to some other documentation?

Union Pacific Motive Power in Transition 1936-1960, by Lloyd Stagner, pg 45. Actually, I wrote from memory. The exact quote is: "Pull/speed graphs indicated that at speeds above 25 mph, the 4000 class [ Big Boy's ] and 4 GP-9's were equal, that the 3900's exceeded 3 GP-9's at all speeds above 22 mph and that both were outperforming turbines at speeds above 17 mph." Obviously at speeds above 25 mph, Big Boys were superior to a 3 unit F unit and I slighted the 3900 by giving it equal rating with a 3 unit diesel. Mind you, we are talking about speeds above about 25 mph. At lower speeds, where the max horsepower of a diesel was available, the diesel ruled. What this is saying...as has been proven out many times empirically, high horsepower steam locomotives generally were designed to produce their max HP at relatively higher speeds. Thus, the two UP engines referred to achieved max HP in the 40-50 mph range whereas the diesel achieved its at 20 mph. See the plots on pg 83 of N&W Giant of Steam. Incidentally, the plots were of a 6000 HP 4 unit diesel which was later sold to...uh...UP.

Mike Brock

Tony Thompson writes:

Ah, if only Sherman Hill could have been consistently operated
above 25 mph -- but I assume by "performance" you mean pulling power,
or over-the-road speed.

Well...actually it was. Many people overlook the grade layout of the Hill. Westbound, the ruling grade was 1.55% for about 24 miles. Then there was a 0.82% grade for about 5 miles then downhill to Laramie. After the 24 miles...and possibly removing a helper, it was clear sailing for 26 miles. Your point is well taken that perhaps loads should have been kept low enough to allow faster running on the 1.55%. However, several noted writers have lamented that UP ran Big Boys with so much tonnage up the 30 or so mile long 1.14% Whasatch grade in Utah that they could not utilize their full capability. They overlook the fact that, once reaching Wasatch [ don't bother checking on the spelling, I spell it differently every time on purpose ] at the top of the grade, they then raced along another 130 or so miles to Green River...encountering no more than a 0.82% grade enroute. It is unfortunate that UP saw no reason to test the engines in that area in which they could truly exert their max HP capabilities.

Problem is, the diesel was available about a

third more hours per month and used 40% of the fuel (though more
expensive fuel). Very few railroads which did careful tests thought
the comparison was anywhere close in overall operating and maintenance
behavior.

Repair costs in 1954 were $1.23/mile for Big Boys, $0.91/mile for 3900's and $0.40 for 4 new GP-9's. In 1952 fuel costs were $0.31/ton mile for coal and $0.62.7/ton mile for oil.

"But this ain't a "steam age" list for locomotives."

No problem. The Head Judge [ uh...me ] ruled long ago that if we could write for days about what our frt cars carried [ read that, bananas ], we could write as well about what pulled the little dears.

Mike Brock

Mike, I thought diesel horsepower was a function of the RPM's
of the diesel engine... Diesel hp is independent of the loco's
mph, while steam hp does indeed increase with mph. I think you
may be confusing horsepower with tractive effort. The fact that
a 4-6-6-4 could produce almost 6,000 hp or a 4-8-8-4 7,000 hp
should surprise no one. But as you note, that horsepower was
only available in a limited speed range, while diesels provided
constant hp from 10 to 60 mph.

And sometimes diesel engines were shipped on flat cars... :-)

Tim O'Connor

Mike I think you misplaced a couple of decimal points on the coal and
oil costs. Since gross revenue was less than $.02/ton-mile in this time
period I don't think it could have cost $.31/ton-mile for oil.

If I recall the oft quoted figure was around 400 revenue ton-miles/gal
of diesel oil. (Fascinatingly, yesterday I heard a CSXT ad say they get
440 revenue ton-miles/gal -- a 10% improvement in the last 50 years!)

Tim O'Connor

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:
"I assume the train would be iced at Laramie although I don't know the tempature in Laramie which could be anything within 40° and 75° at the 1135AM arrival time."

Mike, the temperature in Bosler (MP 585), 19 miles north of Laramie, was 60 degF at 9:50am on that day. See the last page of the scans that I sent you. The conductors were required to keep temperature records of their trains.

By the way, the ice house that you mention burned to the ground in February of this year. The outbuildings did the same about a month ago, and arson is suspected. The outbuildings had some cabinet doors built from plywood siding from PFE reefers - portions of the painted shields and car number were well preserved.

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming

Tim O'Connor writes:

Mike, I thought diesel horsepower was a function of the RPM's
of the diesel engine... Diesel hp is independent of the loco's
mph, while steam hp does indeed increase with mph. I think you
may be confusing horsepower with tractive effort.

Nope. The curves in this case...pg 83 of N&W Giant of Steam...contain both drawbar pull [ tractive effort ] and drawbar HP. The data was generated during the tests in 1952 when class A, Y6b, and a 4 unit F-7 [ painted in UP ] were tested on various districts on the N&W. Included in the trains was a dynamometer car. Interestingly, EMD had "tweaked" the F-7s so they were able to produce 1700 HP per unit.

Mike Brock

Tim O'Connor says:

Mike I think you misplaced a couple of decimal points on the coal and
oil costs. Since gross revenue was less than $.02/ton-mile in this time
period I don't think it could have cost $.31/ton-mile for oil.

Well...I didn't actually misplace a decimal point, I just left out "1000 gross miles". IOW, my $0.31/ton mile should have been $0.31/1000 ton miles...or $.00031 per ton mile. However, the point was to show that coal was cheaper regardless of the number of ton miles.

To quote directly from pg 39, "A 1952 report assembled in New York City indicated fuel cost per 1000 gross ton miles was 30.1 cents with coal and 62.7 cents with oil.

Mike Brock

All true Kurt, but if you pay attention to the advertising CSXT
and other railroads are claiming great advances in fuel efficiency.
Trucks for example have improved fuel efficiency over the last 50
years by a huge amount -- like 50-80% fuel consumption reductions.

Fuel cost alone was not the sole criteria for replacing steam with diesel. When you consider how labour-intensive steam operation is compared to diesel, the overall cost reduction was very attractive.

Gradual elimination of firemen, ash pit staff, shop staff at every division point to lube the running gear, coal hoist operators, etc. all helped turn the tide from steam to diesel power on labour cost alone, never mind the other efficiencies realised by the use of diesl power.

Steve Lucas.