Folks,Isn't it about time that we submit a list of those cars needed,but missing.There will likely be geographical differences,but let's see if there are any common cars that have yet to see the light of day.Armand Premo

--- In STMFC@..., "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

Folks,Isn't it about time that we submit a list of those cars needed,but
missing.There will likely be geographical differences,but let's see if there
are any common cars that have yet to see the light of day.Armand Premo

The nice thing about lists like this is that "common" cars are harder to add, since we have many prototypes now represented in model form. However, I would submit the following list for consideration:

1) Extended height (9'3" IH or thereabouts) boxcars based on the 1923 ARA design, such as the NYC cars, Reading XMu (or is XMg?) and the PRR X28 and X28a, which we used to have. Anyone know why Sunshine discontinued this kit?

2) The AAR alternate standard twin hopper.

3) The ARA 1929 quad hopper.

4) More GS gondolas would be nice for those of us modeling Western railroads.

Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, IA

On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Armand Premo wrote:

Folks,Isn't it about time that we submit a list of those cars needed,but
missing.There will likely be geographical differences,but let's see if there
are any common cars that have yet to see the light of day.Armand Premo

PRR K8 stock car ;^)

Another lister and I vociferously vouched for the PRR K7A stock car a number of years ago, only to be told by several esteemed members of this list that the potential of a K7A in plastic was, um, unlikely at best (to politely paraphrase). Since I'm tickled pink with my gaggle of BLI K7As, I'm hoping for a similar reaction to this suggestion <VBG>!

Seriously though, a K8 in resin would almost certainly sell well, and if no-one else gets to it, I might just get those masters built myself (the drawings arrived a few weeks ago).

Plastic:
GATC tank car
UTL tank car
alt std offset 50T hopper
1922, 1927 FGE wood reefers (not the post WWII rebuilt from IM)
NYC "USRA" steel box (promised from Sun Models, no sign of actual models)
PRR H21A hoppers (correctly done, with sep grabs)
PRR X31 series box cars (correctly done, 21 century details)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Armand,

By common do you mean owned by a large number of roads or existed in large quantities?. They are not necessarily one and the same.

Rich Orr

Rich, initially I was thinking solely in terms of numbers of cars.Your question expands the parameters..Armand Premo

Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Missing links



Armand,

By common do you mean owned by a large number of roads or existed in large quantities?. They are not necessarily one and the same.

Rich Orr

The usual reason for Sunshine to drop a kit is that demand has dropped off
and they've run out of something, decals for example, that have a minimum
reorder quantity way beyond expected sales.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

Armand Premo wrote:

Folks,Isn't it about time that we submit a list of those cars needed, but missing.

I assume, Armand, that you meant "create," not "submit" (unless you're in touch with a Higher Authority in the hobby than i know about). Here's what I'd say:

1. The GSC cast steel depressed center flat car, and maybe the 4- truck "flat" flat car.

2. The 46-foot GS gondola used in the West, either the very early D&RGW style or the later Enterprise cars of both D&RGW and WP (and others--Richard has a list). The former are practically signature cars of the Rio Grande (back in the era of this list, the railroad used to run ads helping you with pronunciation: "Say Rye-o Grand," evidently avoiding any hint that the line had Hispanic roots <g>).

3. I make it no. 3 only out of humility: the Harriman flat car with straight side sills, either the 40-foot or 50-foot version (if we had forties, we could kitbash the fifty-footers).

4. There is some kinda hopper car that people argue about all the time, about which I know little and can't use anyway, but from all the flames and smoke it must be needed by SOMEONE. <vbg>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

1. I'll echo Tony's call for the enterprise GS gon.

2. Multi-dome tank cars. AC&F, others?

3. High-walkway AC&F tank cars. I'll be happy with single dome; others may want more.

With these, in plastic, I would be happy.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

No,I meant submit_. The higher authority of which you speak are the members of this list.We have spent much time reading about relatively obscure cars while larger groups of cars go begging.It was my original thought, after hearing from all those interested, was to refine the list of cars and submit it to manufacturers for their consideration.for future projects.Armand Premo

Armand, and Group,

Let me second the motion from several others for the following freight cars - in plastic, with state of the art details, please:

1. AAR alternate standard 50T offset twin hopper
2. GS gondolas in Pullman Standard and Pressed Steel Car versions
3. GATC type 30 tank cars
4. UTL X-3 (etc.) tank cars
5. PFE R-40-27 and FGE/WFE/BREX/MNX plug door 40-ft reefers

The above should be reasonable projects for plastic manufacturers. After all, over the past few years, various firms have tooled exceptional ACF 1958cuft and Airslide 2600cuft covered hoppers, PS-2 2- and 3-bay covered hoppers, plus unique ATSF, PRR, and Harriman stock cars, even Caswell gons, as just a few examples of recent offerings. Modular ends, sides, roofs, etc., could cover most variations in the reefers, as already done by some manufacturers for box car variants (and taken advantage of by those of us who further modify or kit-mingle to model less-common prototypes like the early riveted PS-1 box cars).

Dave Sieber
Reno NV

Tony, a big ditto here!

I dearly would like to have several prewar SP flat cars. Good
examples would be something like the F-50-9 and F-50-13 which
were very distinct from each other and both classes lasted past
1960. SP used to run long cuts of empty flat cars back to Oregon.
I've seen it in photos and even in Hollywood movies!

Tim O'Connor

4. UTL X-3 (etc.) tank cars
Dave Sieber
Reno NV

Dave that tank car has been on the wish list for so long
I think we've all just given up on it... The usual reason
given is that it had only one owner and a boring paint
scheme. But then Intermountain did a Santa Fe stock car,
and Red Caboose did an SP stock car, and so on -- surely
the X-3 travelled on MOST class 1 railroads did it not?

Tim O'Connor

Armand,

My votes are for General American 46' GS gondolas, both D&RGW and WP variants (they had different gate mechanisms); AC&F 10K high walkway and low walkway tanks; and SP 40' flatcars. All these are echoes of what others have asked for.

We are finally going to get an affordable Gould-design caboose as used by the D&RGW, MP, WP, SN, CCT and TS. See http://www.lakejunctionmodels.com/ .

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

Armand Premo wrote:

And the GATC covered hopper, either 2-bay or 3-bay.

Ron Merrick

Yes, Tony, a hopper car. A basic offset side two bay hopper with
optional ends to cover flat, full heap shields, and notched heap
shields. Separate grabs and ladders. AND priced for those of us
who need dozens of them. Think solid trains of L&N cars on PRR rails
headed for the Great Lakes, Pittsburg, etc. Other roads too,
of course. Some roads bought them in lots of 1000 and more.
I personally don't need quite the full thousand.
Chuck Peck

Tim,

Yeah, I know; UTL X-3s have been on "most wanted" lists at least since the "Model Railroading" survey/lists of the '80s - and they're still needed. The underframe could also be used for X-4 insulated and X-5 pressurized tanks. Some X-5s had lessor markings (e.g., Skelgas); not sure if any X-4s had lessor paint. These cars surely were seen on just about every railroad and would fit anywhere.

With the ATSF and SP/WP stock cars, you echo my point about manufacturers issuing unique one-(or two-)road plain paint cars. How about the ATSF Caswell gon, PRR K7 stock car, Central Valley NP stock car, or many Bowser Pennsy cars, some only in PRR and predecessor and subsidiary lettering? We could even go back to Athearn blue box UP stock car and UP grainloading boxes (sorta'), plus classic ATSF and SP cabeese - though also in many bogus paint schemes. Someone really should do the ubiquitous UTL X-3 and other common tank cars.

The "one boring paint scheme" excuse can't explain why no styrene GATC type 30 tank cars. The old Athearn blue box 12,500gal (almost-)UP/SP tank car and modified unreal 3-dome cars (and AHM, etc., copies) were a poor attempt to continue the yellow box GATC tanks in different sizes that were excellent early '50s metal kits. While those metal underframes had no bolster-end poling pocket detail, they did exhibit most characteristics of the GATC tank car frame.

It can be frustrating trying to assemble resin tank car kits that are often at best fiddley and/or don't quite fit together; see the recent STMFC GATX 30 underframe thread. That's why I continue the call for UTLX and GATC tank cars in styrene, in the hope that others will add to the hue and cry until some manufacturer hears the potential sales market. After all, 10 years ago, who would have expected that two firms would issue the ACF type 21 and the type 27, both in 8K and 10K capacities, one even also with the insulated tank?.
I can deal better with model shortcomings than with the complete lack of a common prototype car.

Regards,
Dave Sieber
Reno NV

Chuck Peck wrote:

Yes, Tony, a hopper car. A basic offset side two bay hopper with optional ends . . .

Actually, I do know. It just won't impact MY modeling if it's produced. But I would never speak against the introduction of such a model.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Gang,I kind of suspected that there would be a regional influence for nominees.While offset hoppers seem to dominate the interest of eastern aficionados ,there are still many other types of hoppers that are totally missing from the scene.I will attempt to collate the choices and put it to a vote.While hoppers seem to be of only marginal interest to western prototype modelers some other cars appear to have a more uniform appeal.Armand Premo

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Missing links


Tony, a big ditto here!

I dearly would like to have several prewar SP flat cars. Good
examples would be something like the F-50-9 and F-50-13 which
were very distinct from each other and both classes lasted past
1960. SP used to run long cuts of empty flat cars back to Oregon.
I've seen it in photos and even in Hollywood movies!

Tim O'Connor

>3. I make it no. 3 only out of humility: the Harriman flat car with
>straight side sills, either the 40-foot or 50-foot version (if we had
>forties, we could kitbash the fifty-footers).
>
>Tony Thompson






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Dave,

You mention the SP/WP stock cars, and I gather that you are speaking of the styrene Red Caboose models and not Westerfield's resin kits. In point of fact, there is NO WP stock car from RC. The ends are solid wood, and the WP cars had open slatted upper ends. I have passed on the RC car for just that reason (also because of the absurd price). The car is an SP S-40-5 and nothing else.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

ealabhan0 wrote:

Garth Groff wrote:

You mention the SP/WP stock cars, and I gather that you are speaking of the styrene Red Caboose models and not Westerfield's resin kits. In point of fact, there is NO WP stock car from RC. The ends are solid wood, and the WP cars had open slatted upper ends. I have passed on the RC car for just that reason (also because of the absurd price). The car is an SP S-40-5 and nothing else.

Garth, is the model fixable for WP? open up some slots, etc.? I haven't looked at it with that in mind.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history