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Missing links
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lrkdbn
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LR King |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Mike;
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I lived in Laramie at the time, but this was in the middle of nowhere, literally. A siding from which nothing was visible in any direction, but dirt and weeds. Oh, and one lone X31A. Definitely not Sherman Hill! Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Mike Brock Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 10:28 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Missing links Elden Gatwood says: PRR modelers are quite numerous, but pretty much everyone modeling aIn the "middle of nowhere"? Wyoming? I beg your pardon, sir. If you are referring to certain tracks in Southeastern Wyoming, you are referring to railroad Mecca....hardly in the "middle of nowhere." Mike Brock |
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Mike Brock <brockm@...>
Elden Gatwood says:
PRR modelers are quite numerous, but pretty much everyone modeling a NorthIn the "middle of nowhere"? Wyoming? I beg your pardon, sir. If you are referring to certain tracks in Southeastern Wyoming, you are referring to railroad Mecca....hardly in the "middle of nowhere." Mike Brock |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD
I agree with Tim and Bruce.
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A state-of-the-art PRR X31A is way overdue. They were seen everywhere, lasted into the 60's, were painted in a number of schemes, and numbered in the thousands right to the end. PRR modelers are quite numerous, but pretty much everyone modeling a North American railroad between the 30's and 60's should have at least one. BTW, I saw one sitting on a siding in Wyoming in the late 60's, out in the middle of nowhere. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:34 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Missing links Armand No one has done a mass production RTR USRA single sheathed box car. Not that I think they should, but it's strange no one has done it. A ridiculously desperately needed high quality car is the PRR X31 round roof cars. And the X32 as well. You know, something to go with all those excellent Red Cabosoe X29's. A good candidate for a one railroad car would be the SLSF single sheathed cars, including the cars with replacement steel sheathing. Those cars got around the country and lasted into the 1970's. I gave up lobbying for the 1950's PC&F 40 foot plug door reefers. No one seems interested in the later 1950's... but if anyone does do it PLEASE do the ends correctly (no one ever has in plastic, resin or brass) and make them available as separate parts (I need at least 20 pairs of replacement ends) Tim O'Connor At 10/23/2009 03:10 PM Friday, you wrote: Elden,While there are many "missing links" some of the nominees arerelatively rare or are examples of regional bias.I was hoping,as a group, we could come up with a list of cars represented by either large numbers or with more universal appeal..Armand Premo. |
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Right. Sorry, my fault for being HO-centric.
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At 10/23/2009 08:18 PM Friday, you wrote:
No one has done a mass production RTR USRA single sheathed box car.There is one here in many different paint schemes: |
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Yes and Westerfield makes 'em too. What I really meant was there
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is no "mass production" model i.e. a shake the box style car that sells for 10 bucks. Tim O'Connor InterMountain has assembled the Tichy reefers for RTRAt the bottom of this page: |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Walt Lankenau wrote:
At the bottom of this page:You're right, Walt. Thanks. I had missed that they'd done these. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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mcindoefalls
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
At the bottom of this page: http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/hoboxcars.htm IM shows assembled Tichy USRA SS boxcars. Walt Lankenau |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
No one has done a mass production RTR USRA single sheathed box car. Not that I think they should, but it's strange no one has done it.An awful lot of the original USRA single-sheathed cars were rebuilt by WW II, and the market for pre-war cars is less than for postwar cars. InterMountain has assembled the Tichy reefers for RTR sale, so they could presumably do the USRA box too, but maybe they doubt the market. That leaves the rebuildsk, and again there are Tichy parts which could be assembled for RTR. But here, the problem is the variety from road to road. That's why the rebuilds are good resin candidates. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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edwardloizeaux
No one has done a mass production RTR USRA single sheathed box car.There is one here in many different paint schemes: http://www.showcaseline.com/ |
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Armand
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No one has done a mass production RTR USRA single sheathed box car. Not that I think they should, but it's strange no one has done it. A ridiculously desperately needed high quality car is the PRR X31 round roof cars. And the X32 as well. You know, something to go with all those excellent Red Cabosoe X29's. A good candidate for a one railroad car would be the SLSF single sheathed cars, including the cars with replacement steel sheathing. Those cars got around the country and lasted into the 1970's. I gave up lobbying for the 1950's PC&F 40 foot plug door reefers. No one seems interested in the later 1950's... but if anyone does do it PLEASE do the ends correctly (no one ever has in plastic, resin or brass) and make them available as separate parts (I need at least 20 pairs of replacement ends) Tim O'Connor At 10/23/2009 03:10 PM Friday, you wrote:
Elden,While there are many "missing links" some of the nominees are relatively rare or are examples of regional bias.I was hoping,as a group, we could come up with a list of cars represented by either large numbers or with more universal appeal..Armand Premo. |
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David Sieber
Jim,
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Agree; I'd love to see Sunshine Mini-Kits of their old Uni-Body offerings, and others as well. Beyond modification kits for BL or IM 10ft6in IH cars, they could also consider mod kits for IMWX/RC & IM 10ft IH ARR boxcars. However, it's not unlikely that Martin would hesitate to scale down on these cars since he's already invested in masters, castings, et al, to issue many of them as full kits at full price. See 64.20-22 for PRR X29c & 64.35-35 for 29b; 64.23-34 for ATSF Bx-32,33,36 & 64.37-48 for Bx-28,31; 64.52-53 for Wabash; 64.75-77 for T&P 81000s; and 64.78-83 for A&WP, WofA, and GA - at least these, if not any other 10ft to 10ft6in IH 10-panel side boxcars I may have missed. Additionally, for example, rather than full kits for the 1937 ARR oddities in 18.1-3, they could package just ends, roofs, doors and decals for the Erie 78000s (and the Naval Powder Factory cars) with Buckeye ends and Viking roofs, and for the C&O 5400s with Deco ends, Viking roofs, and Creco doors - plus expand to the rest of the C&O 4000-5400s with Viking roofs, but different ends and doors. By issuing more cars as Mini-Kits, Sunshine could use decals already bought and on-hand, but cast only the unique parts instead of the entire car kit. Question is, would this make economic sense to the Loftons, given their investments so far in the full kits? Submitted for your consideration, Dave Sieber Reno NV --- In STMFC@..., "Jim & Lisa Hayes" <jimandlisa97225@...> wrote:
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Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
Eldon, if we get a positive response from Martin, developing a list of
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suggestions for Mini-Kits to do is a good idea. In addition to what we want, we should also include a contact person for each suggestion. A place to start might be looking at Sunshine discontinued kits. If we could suggest something that would include parts from an existing mold to be used with an existing plastic kit, we might be one step closer. After all, some Mini-Kits are the old Unibody kits without the C&BT body. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon www.sunshinekits.com -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:42 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Missing links Thanks, Jim! That is a great idea, and if you would, when it gets to the point of discussing WHAT cars, we should take a poll and be prepared to then discuss: A) how many B) what road(s) C) what timeframe D) what details would need to be created... E) to mate with what kit F) decal availability (they won't sell otherwise) G) research and photo availability What do you think? Elden Gatwood |
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Armand Premo
Elden,While there are many "missing links" some of the nominees are relatively rare or are examples of regional bias.I was hoping,as a group, we could come up with a list of cars represented by either large numbers or with more universal appeal..Armand Premo.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD To: STMFC@... Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:41 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Missing links Thanks, Jim! That is a great idea, and if you would, when it gets to the point of discussing WHAT cars, we should take a poll and be prepared to then discuss: A) how many B) what road(s) C) what timeframe D) what details would need to be created... E) to mate with what kit F) decal availability (they won't sell otherwise) G) research and photo availability What do you think? Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jim & Lisa Hayes Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:07 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Missing links This sounds like a reason for Martin to expand AND CATALOG more mini-kits. In many cases he could also dispense with decals resulting in a minimum investment for Sunshine. A few resin parts, a one page PDS/instruction sheet, a plastic bag and a tag. Presto - he's offering the same type of product available to armor & aircraft modelers. I'm going to mention it to Martin at Naperville. All you other Napervillers should too. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon www.sunshinekits.com -------------------------------- The method of taking a BL body kit and mating it with resin parts suitable for a particular road's car has been done by Sunshine in their Uni-body series, but as I understand it, could not be continued due to the issue of having to buy large numbers of kits for a speculative future market. Elden Gatwood ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.27/2452 - Release Date: 10/22/09 18:44:00 |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Thanks, Jim! That is a great idea, and if you would, when it gets to the
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point of discussing WHAT cars, we should take a poll and be prepared to then discuss: A) how many B) what road(s) C) what timeframe D) what details would need to be created... E) to mate with what kit F) decal availability (they won't sell otherwise) G) research and photo availability What do you think? Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jim & Lisa Hayes Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:07 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Missing links This sounds like a reason for Martin to expand AND CATALOG more mini-kits. In many cases he could also dispense with decals resulting in a minimum investment for Sunshine. A few resin parts, a one page PDS/instruction sheet, a plastic bag and a tag. Presto - he's offering the same type of product available to armor & aircraft modelers. I'm going to mention it to Martin at Naperville. All you other Napervillers should too. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon www.sunshinekits.com -------------------------------- The method of taking a BL body kit and mating it with resin parts suitable for a particular road's car has been done by Sunshine in their Uni-body series, but as I understand it, could not be continued due to the issue of having to buy large numbers of kits for a speculative future market. Elden Gatwood |
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Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
This sounds like a reason for Martin to expand AND CATALOG more mini-kits.
In many cases he could also dispense with decals resulting in a minimum investment for Sunshine. A few resin parts, a one page PDS/instruction sheet, a plastic bag and a tag. Presto - he's offering the same type of product available to armor & aircraft modelers. I'm going to mention it to Martin at Naperville. All you other Napervillers should too. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon www.sunshinekits.com -------------------------------- The method of taking a BL body kit and mating it with resin parts suitable for a particular road's car has been done by Sunshine in their Uni-body series, but as I understand it, could not be continued due to the issue of having to buy large numbers of kits for a speculative future market. Elden Gatwood |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Oct 23, 2009, at 4:27 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
Last night I looked at one of the few photos I've seen of the WP stockThough I haven't had time to try it, it seems to me that the four gaps at the top of the end sheathing shouldn't be all that hard to simulate, unless you insist on cutting them all the way through the end. BTW, I have several b/w photos of these cars and can send you scans off-list. The trucks were, in fact, common Andrews U-section. Ironically, RC supplied trucks on the SP models which are very close to accurate for the WP cars but wrong on the SP cars (which had Vulcans), and then shipped the WP models with ARA trucks. Go figure. The RC models of the WP cars have correct WP letter boards. Richard Hendrickson |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Rich and Greg are right; the PRR and other roads' rebuilds of earlier cars
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remain a very large group of cars that would be ideal for a hybrid modeling approach, if some manufacturer would take the bait. The X26C had widened and heightened Murphy ends, plus a rectangular panel roof, for all but the last 500 cars, plus either Superior or pre-War Y-town doors, again, for all but the last 500 cars. The X29B had diagonal panel roofs, post-War Y-town doors, and the rolling pin IDE. Both had 7' doors. However, since all the PRR rebuilds, as well as a number of the rebuilds done by ATSF, Wabash, EJ&E, NKP and others, had IH of 10'6", and both roof and ends are separate parts, the only issue as far as producing one body good for everything is the presence or absence of side sill tabs, and their configuration. The Branchline cars are pretty much ideal for most purposes, then, as they have all of the characteristics that allow them to be easily modified. The only thing missing is those special ends and side sill/underframe arrangements unique to the particular roads that assembled them. Plastic car manufacturers are not comforted by any of this, though, as I have heard, as they really are looking for multiple-road options that require little to no variation in the car body. The method of taking a BL body kit and mating it with resin parts suitable for a particular road's car has been done by Sunshine in their Uni-body series, but as I understand it, could not be continued due to the issue of having to buy large numbers of kits for a speculative future market. The concept still works for many of us, however, who don't want to be put off by the unavailability of these cars! Elden Gatwood Greg, If you are going to have interchangeable floors, then aren't the PRR X26c and the X29b the same body? The only difference I can see on elevation drawings is a 1 inch longer running board on the X26c. The under frames are different and difference in the truck spacing is readily apparent. Between the 2 classes there were roughly 8,000 cars which lasted well beyond the time frame of this list. Rich Orr -----Original Message-----
From: tgregmrtn@... <mailto:tgregmrtn%40aol.com> To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 6:58 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Missing links Guys, A possible candidate for consideration is the post-war rebuilt boxcars that came from the RR's rebuilding with an ARR box on a earlier underframes. Certainly we know that the ATSF, KCS,PRR, WABASH and the ACL did this and I am sure others are well. It would require tooling for a variety of underframes, roofs and ends, but the "box" remained the same. (yes, I realize the ACL cars were only 10'-3" IH, but my eyes can't measure 3 scale inches without a micrometer). Once the tooling was complete the idea would be to mix and match the possible ends, roofs and underframes to cover as many roads as one could. The PRR had two classes as well as the ACL and I am not an ATSF expert, but I believe there was more than one. The Wabash and the DT&I had cars that mirrored the PRR X26c as well. The PRR continued the practice well into the 1950s like the ACL, being frugal was the name of the game at the time. If you include double door cars the list grows. The trucks were recycled (the re-use of Andrews trucks by some) as well. It would take research and forethought before one jumped in, but it does open many doors for sales to prototype modelers. Greg Martin -----Original Message----- From: Armand Premo <armprem2@... <mailto:armprem2%40surfglobal.net> > To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:03 am Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Missing links Gang,I kind of suspected that there would be a regional influence for nominees.While offset hoppers seem to dominate the interest of eastern aficionados ,there are still many other types of hoppers that are totally missing from the scene.I will attempt to collate the choices and put it to a vote.While hoppers seem to be of only marginal interest to western prototype modelers some other cars appear to have a more uniform appeal.Armand Premo . ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Tony,
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Last night I looked at one of the few photos I've seen of the WP stock cars, found in Jim Eager's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT. The WP cars did indeed have narrow gaps between the sheathing boards on the ends. IIRC, they coincide the lowest coincide with the gaps between the boards on the sides. There were four gaps across the ends near the top. These were partly covered by the steel diagonal bracing, making some of the openings between the braces very small indeed. To cut these into the RC ends would be a major chore. The trucks on the car in question appear to be somewhat like an Andrews truck, with a reenforcement piece between the journal box and the truss at spring level. I don't see that the reenforcements are bolted in place, but seem part of the sideframe casting. Are these actually Vulcan trucks? The WP cars also had a large name board along the eave to the left of the doors. The RC car has a different arrangement, with letterboards set lower per SP practice. Adding the high board would be easy to do with styrene, assuming the SP boards are separate pieces. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff Anthony Thompson wrote: Garth Groff wrote: |
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SUVCWORR@...
Greg,
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If you are going to have interchangeable floors, then aren't the PRR X26c and the X29b the same body? The only difference I can see on elevation drawings is a 1 inch longer running board on the X26c. The under frames are different and difference in the truck spacing is readily apparent. Between the 2 classes there were roughly 8,000 cars which lasted well beyond the time frame of this list. Rich Orr -----Original Message-----
From: tgregmrtn@... To: STMFC@... Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 6:58 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Missing links Guys, A possible candidate for consideration is the post-war rebuilt boxcars that came from the RR's rebuilding with an ARR box on a earlier underframes. Certainly we know that the ATSF, KCS,PRR, WABASH and the ACL did this and I am sure others are well. It would require tooling for a variety of underframes, roofs and ends, but the "box" remained the same. (yes, I realize the ACL cars were only 10'-3" IH, but my eyes can't measure 3 scale inches without a micrometer). Once the tooling was complete the idea would be to mix and match the possible ends, roofs and underframes to cover as many roads as one could. The PRR had two classes as well as the ACL and I am not an ATSF expert, but I believe there was more than one. The Wabash and the DT&I had cars that mirrored the PRR X26c as well. The PRR continued the practice well into the 1950s like the ACL, being frugal was the name of the game at the time. If you include double door cars the list grows. The trucks were recycled (the re-use of Andrews trucks by some) as well. It would take research and forethought before one jumped in, but it does open many doors for sales to prototype modelers. Greg Martin -----Original Message----- From: Armand Premo <armprem2@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Thu, Oct 22, 2009 11:03 am Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Missing links Gang,I kind of suspected that there would be a regional influence for nominees.While offset hoppers seem to dominate the interest of eastern aficionados ,there are still many other types of hoppers that are totally missing from the scene.I will attempt to collate the choices and put it to a vote.While hoppers seem to be of only marginal interest to western prototype modelers some other cars appear to have a more uniform appeal.Armand Premo . ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links |
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