Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded drop-end Gondola available now!!


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Ed! That is great info. You are the man!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Ed
Hawkins
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 1:35 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!




On Oct 26, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

2) the G31 has an Equipco pump brake, unlike the G31B, which seems to
have had Universdals as-built (BTW, Dave has done us a favor, and
offers BOTH those types in his extra parts sprue);
Elden and Rich,
The G31, G31B, and G35 all used 3 types of lever-type hand brakes, including
Klasing as well as Universal and Equipco.

Larry Kline did some digging in PRR company files and recently provided me a
list of hand brakes used on one group of G31s. For the total series, 498 cars
had Universal hand brakes, 502 Equipco, and 500 Klasing. But to cover the
1,500 G31 cars in series 364800-366299 built in 1950, there are 18 separate
groups of car numbers. For starters,
364800-364974 came with Klasing, 364975-365122 had Equipco, 365123-365150 had
Universal, and so on.

For similar G35 cars there are 7 separate groups. I currently do not have
complete data for G31 cars built in 1948, G31A, or G31B. The RP CYC Vol. 19
article specifies the quantities of each hand brake used on the G31B cars,
but even the AC&F bill of materials didn't specify car number assignments for
the hand brakes used on the 2,000 G31B cars. The class car in the series
371950 had a Universal Pump-Handle hand brake, and it's believed that the
first 500 cars came with Universal. However, I'm hoping that Larry will be
able to locate data to define the hand brakes for all of these cars.

To supplement the article in RP CYC Vol. 19 about these cars, I'm in process
of compiling a list of PRR G31, G31A, G31B, and G35 hand brake car number
assignments that will be available in PDF format on the RP CYC web site. I
currently do not have all of the data for these cars, but will supply the
data when I have it. Larry has been kind to provide data he has located in
PRR company records thus far.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Ed Hawkins
 

On Oct 26, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

2) the G31 has an Equipco pump brake, unlike the G31B, which seems to
have
had Universdals as-built (BTW, Dave has done us a favor, and offers
BOTH
those types in his extra parts sprue);
Elden and Rich,
The G31, G31B, and G35 all used 3 types of lever-type hand brakes,
including Klasing as well as Universal and Equipco.

Larry Kline did some digging in PRR company files and recently provided
me a list of hand brakes used on one group of G31s. For the total
series, 498 cars had Universal hand brakes, 502 Equipco, and 500
Klasing. But to cover the 1,500 G31 cars in series 364800-366299 built
in 1950, there are 18 separate groups of car numbers. For starters,
364800-364974 came with Klasing, 364975-365122 had Equipco,
365123-365150 had Universal, and so on.

For similar G35 cars there are 7 separate groups. I currently do not
have complete data for G31 cars built in 1948, G31A, or G31B. The RP
CYC Vol. 19 article specifies the quantities of each hand brake used on
the G31B cars, but even the AC&F bill of materials didn't specify car
number assignments for the hand brakes used on the 2,000 G31B cars. The
class car in the series 371950 had a Universal Pump-Handle hand brake,
and it's believed that the first 500 cars came with Universal. However,
I'm hoping that Larry will be able to locate data to define the hand
brakes for all of these cars.

To supplement the article in RP CYC Vol. 19 about these cars, I'm in
process of compiling a list of PRR G31, G31A, G31B, and G35 hand brake
car number assignments that will be available in PDF format on the RP
CYC web site. I currently do not have all of the data for these cars,
but will supply the data when I have it. Larry has been kind to provide
data he has located in PRR company records thus far.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Rich;

As far as I can see, the G31 are almost identical to the later classes, but
for the steel floor; however, there are some little details that one also
could consider:

1) the tie-down clips are welded to the side sheet, like the G31A, unlike
the G31B where they are welded to the sides of the top angle;

2) the G31 has an Equipco pump brake, unlike the G31B, which seems to have
had Universdals as-built (BTW, Dave has done us a favor, and offers BOTH
those types in his extra parts sprue);

3) The G31 only has one "tack" board

You could also overlay .005" sheet over the wood floor, like I did on one of
the cars I haven't finished yet.

Let me know if you need a photo.

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
SUVCWORR@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 12:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!




Elden,

As you have researched and published articles and presented clinics on these
cars, since the floor of the Tangent car is removable, would simply changing
the floor to steel convert these to a G31 or are there other differences I am
missing in the photos? The IH of the G31 is 1 3/8 inches higher but that is
almost imperceptible in HO and could be accounted for with the thinkness of
the replacement floor.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:04 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!

Folks;

The G31's were painted just like the Tangent model, as-built. All initial
paint and lettering were identical, but for the builders' stencils, where
applied;

The "w" in a circle came later;

The G31 was PRR-built, the G31A was PS-built, and the G31B and G31D were
ACF-built, and the G31C and G31E were GenAm-built;

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Allen Rueter
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:41 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!

Tim,
I misunderstood that the 1st G31s where built, by PRR shops, once I found
this table, it made things more clear.
( http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31>
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31> > )

G31a where P-S?

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net>
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 5:49:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!

?? It's right there on the web site.

http://tangentscale models.com/ prototypeimages/ PRR%20371950. jpg

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.
Allen Rueter
Me, too.
Gene Green
------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


SUVCWORR@...
 

Elden,

As you have researched and published articles and presented clinics on these cars, since the floor of the Tangent car is removable, would simply changing the floor to steel convert these to a G31 or are there other differences I am missing in the photos? The IH of the G31 is 1 3/8 inches higher but that is almost imperceptible in HO and could be accounted for with the thinkness of the replacement floor.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:04 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded drop-end Gondola available now!!










Folks;

The G31's were painted just like the Tangent model, as-built. All initial
paint and lettering were identical, but for the builders' stencils, where
applied;

The "w" in a circle came later;

The G31 was PRR-built, the G31A was PS-built, and the G31B and G31D were
ACF-built, and the G31C and G31E were GenAm-built;

Elden Gatwood



-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Allen
Rueter
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!



Tim,
I misunderstood that the 1st G31s where built, by PRR shops, once I found
this table, it made things more clear.
( http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31> )

G31a where P-S?

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 5:49:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!

?? It's right there on the web site.

http://tangentscale models.com/ prototypeimages/ PRR%20371950. jpg

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.
Allen Rueter
Me, too.
Gene Green





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

The G31's were painted just like the Tangent model, as-built. All initial
paint and lettering were identical, but for the builders' stencils, where
applied;

The "w" in a circle came later;

The G31 was PRR-built, the G31A was PS-built, and the G31B and G31D were
ACF-built, and the G31C and G31E were GenAm-built;

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Allen
Rueter
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!



Tim,
I misunderstood that the 1st G31s where built, by PRR shops, once I found
this table, it made things more clear.
( http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31> )

G31a where P-S?

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 5:49:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!

?? It's right there on the web site.

http://tangentscale models.com/ prototypeimages/ PRR%20371950. jpg

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.
Allen Rueter
Me, too.
Gene Green


Allen Rueter
 

Tim,
I misunderstood that the 1st G31s where built, by PRR shops, once I found this table, it made things more clear.
( http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31 )

G31a where P-S?

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 5:49:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded drop-end Gondola available now!!



?? It's right there on the web site.

http://tangentscale models.com/ prototypeimages/ PRR%20371950. jpg

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.
Allen Rueter
Me, too.
Gene Green


Brian Carlson
 

Tim: I was confused when I answered the same question yesterday.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:49 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!






?? It's right there on the web site.

http://tangentscalemodels.com/prototypeimages/PRR%20371950.jpg

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.
Allen Rueter
Me, too.


Tim O'Connor
 

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.
Allen Rueter

Me, too.
Gene Green


Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Allen Rueter <allen_282@...> wrote:

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO
Me, too.
Gene Green


rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

This is a bit off topic.
David, Guys keep asking me when they'll be able to buy the "Real" CGW hopper.
Talk to you later in the week,
Clark Propst


bnsd45
 

Allen,

There is a link page here that takes you to two different pages: one is the model page with high res photos of the models. The other is the prototype page that shows high res photos of the prototypes, as photographed at ACF when new.

http://tangentscalemodels.com/aboutourproducts.aspx

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models

--- In STMFC@..., Allen Rueter <allen_282@...> wrote:

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Brian Carlson
 

Allen:

It looked like the scheme on the Tangent cars. That is the as-built paint
scheme.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Allen Rueter
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:27 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!





I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO

________________________________


Allen Rueter
 

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________


rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Jim & Lisa Hayes" <jimandlisa97225@...> wrote:
Yah but, I'll buy the plastic tanks and junk all my P2K GATX cars. He won't make them anyway. I told him at CCB a couple years sgo to do them and he chose some dumb gon DOL a <VBG>

See ya there, Clark Propst


I'm not real sure asking Tangent to make UTLX & GATC tank cars in plastic
should be done at a Sunshine sponsored event where Sunshine UTLX & GATC tank
cars are offered.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


bnsd45
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Thanks. I guess what I meant was -- is the floor loose so I can
remove it to weather it separately from the car sides?
Yes the wood floor is a separate part.

And thanks for the G31A info -- I noticed the difference in the
staples, and the ends, after studying some photos.
No problem!

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models


jerryglow2
 

If he's (Martin) going to charge manufacturers for tables, I suspect they're not there just for the fun. Unless he has some restriction, it's not our call.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Jim, Larry Grubb arrived at Naperville with test shots of the new
Proto 2000 Greenville gondola only a short time after Martin had
produced resin kits for the very same car... So it's all in keeping
with tradition.

Tim O'Connor


At 10/23/2009 03:29 PM Friday, you wrote:
I'm not real sure asking Tangent to make UTLX & GATC tank cars in plastic
should be done at a Sunshine sponsored event where Sunshine UTLX & GATC tank
cars are offered.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

--------------------------------
Maybe David and Tangent Scale Models would be a good person to line
up in front of with our UTLX X-3 photos. We could bring some GATX
photos also.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Tim O'Connor
 

David

Thanks. I guess what I meant was -- is the floor loose so I can
remove it to weather it separately from the car sides?

And thanks for the G31A info -- I noticed the difference in the
staples, and the ends, after studying some photos.

Tim O'

At 10/23/2009 09:29 PM Friday, you wrote:
Tim, the floor is a separate part, yet sits at the right depth inside the body.

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


David, is the floor a separate part or is it cast with the body?

Awesome, I am extremely happy that TANGENT did this car and did
it right. Take that, TRAINMAN!

Tim O'Connor


bnsd45
 

Tim, the floor is a separate part, yet sits at the right depth inside the body.

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


David, is the floor a separate part or is it cast with the body?

Awesome, I am extremely happy that TANGENT did this car and did
it right. Take that, TRAINMAN!

Tim O'Connor





Tangent Scale Models is pleased to announce our entry into the Steam-Diesel transition era modeling market with our stunning 52-6 welded 70-ton drop-end gondola car as produced by ACF, the third all-new model in our HO scale product line. First produced in 1948 for Pennsylvania Railroad as class G31, PRR alone purchased 11,600 welded cars of this body style in the G31/G31A/G31B/G35, serving the "Standard Railroad of the World" in every corner of North America in many customer applications. If you model somewhere in North America, you can use a PRR model; PRR had more of these gons than some railroads had cars! Besides PRR, other railroads also purchased these gondolas from ACF, and some former PRR cars were purchased second-hand by various railroads. Most of these gondolas were phased from revenue service during the 1990s.

The Tangent Scale Models prototype replica of the ACF-produced PRR G31B has never been produced in HO scale, making it a distinctive addition to any freight car fleet. And as typical of our products, we take the time to focus on execution of all the small details. We studied the prototype to accurately reproduce it with the following:

- Thoroughly-researched colors
- Exact fonts and lettering placement
- Scale-sized side tie-downs
- See through tie down holes
- Stand-off ladders
- Wire grab irons and coupler lift bars
- See-through brake platforms
- Interior detail
- Road-specific handbrakes applied to match production specifications
- Air hoses

The Tangent Scale Models gondola rides upon our well-executed new 70-ton ASF A-3 Ride-Control truck with free-rolling metal wheels. Our ready-to-operate replica is finished with coupler lift bars accompanying Kadee® scale couplers and sufficient hidden weights to ensure the model operates as good as it looks.

The model comes ready-to-run in three highly-accurate paint schemes, including:
- Pennsylvania Railroad G31B, original 1951 scheme PRR Freight Car Red, 24 road numbers available

- Southern Pacific G-70-12, original 1953 scheme SP Freight Car Red, 12 road numbers available

- Wabash, original 1951 scheme black, 6 road numbers

As always, we also offer undecorated kits, plus ready-to-run undecorated models.

Pricing for our new RTR gondolas is $28.95 each. See http://tangentscalemodels.com/acf70tongondolareplicas.aspx for a link to the new models!

All of these are available NOW on our website at www.tangentscalemodels.com or by ordering directly from us at 828-279-6106, or via your favorite dealer.

A supply of our new replicas will be available from the Southern Pacific Historical and Technical Society meet in San Luis Obispo CA on October 28 ­ November 1. They will also be available for purchase directly from Tangent Scale Models at the Sunshine Modelers Meet in Naperville IL, on October 29 ­ 31.

That wraps up our update for today! We thank you for continuing to support the little guys in our big industry!

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models
www.tangentscalemodels.com
tangentscalemodels@...


gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Well put, Tony!

Elden Gatwood

Bob, never attribute to coincidence what you can assign to careful planning
<g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history
Elden and Tony,
Trust me guys, I never seriously thought that it was a coincidence. Thanks to everyone who played a role in bringing this model to market.

Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, IA


Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Sorry Chet. Since Tangent announced they'd be at Naperville and you said
'line up in front of' I assumed you were talking about lining up in front of
their table at Naperville. "Assume" - always a bad thing to do.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com