Topics

Modeling LCL


Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I'm about finished with a trailer to set by my freight house just like the big boys did. The company trailer advertizes "Dependable Daily Service"

There's a photo of Bill Daranby's layout in an ad on page 101 of the latest MR.
Behind the engine is a 'Rider' car and next, with doors open, is a company box car with LCL. The idea is that the crew drops and/or picks up packages at the stations along the way.

My current plan is we have an Eastbound LCL car set out by the through freight. The switch crew spots it at the freight house and blocks the car that was at the freight house for the next EB to pick up. I need to do the same with a west bound car.

What we have is Bill's plan of just stopping for a few minutes for LCL verses my idea of having a car spend 24 hours in one town's freight house.

Are both of they plans correct? If one or both are not. How would LCL be handled between stations and freight houses?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Jack Burgess
 

Clark...

On the Yosemite Valley Railroad, the head-end brakeman unloaded LCL at each
station along the line as part of the work on the Local....the car was not
left for a following train to pick up unless there was so much LCL destined
to a single station that unloading it would have taken too long. In that
case, that car would have been loaded entirely with LCL for that station and
another car loaded with LCL for all of the other stations. The Local arrived
at the end of the line (El Portal) around 3:00 am and LCL for that station
wasn't unloaded until the following morning. Although most of the LCL was
being dropped off, there were some pickups such as empty drums being
returned to a refinery.

The type LCL freight received at El Portal varied. The main customers were
the Yosemite Park and Curry Company (primarily food, liquor, drums of salad
oil, etc.), the National Park Service/Department of Interior (cartoons of
papers, office furniture, etc.), and the El Portal Market (food). The
Gardiners who owned the motel in El Portal were also recipients of cartons
of beer every month or so. One El Portal resident received a couple cases of
dog food each month (I found this interesting since we fed our dogs table
scraps even in the 1950s). Other people were receiving household
furnishings, etc.

One report I consulted listed the number of items for each recipient,
together with the weight of the freight. On one extra busy day (1/3/43)
there were 56 pieces of freight totaling 2,179 pounds delivered over the
line.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Thanks for the help guys!
Last night I looked for the handout from Mark Vaughan's wonderful seminar on LCL at last year's Cocoa Beach meet. Here's his definitions of a couple types of LCL cars.

"Peddler car": Freight cars at the front of the train that carried LCL for
distribution by local freight trains. Bill Daranby's operation

"Freight forwarders": Loaded out whole cars of LCL to single destinations.
Will work for my operation.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Here's the LCL schedule for my town in the early 50s sent to me by Doug Harding. Looks like I might need three cars. I may just leave my ops it as is with one car a day coming and going.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I was corrected on one of my interpretations of one of Mark Vaughan's LCL definitions.


"Freight forwarders were a private business doing volume LCL for various points. Minneapolis had two of them, National and Universal carloading." Len Vick

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Clark Propst, quoting Len Vick, wrote:
"Freight forwarders were a private business doing volume LCL for various points. Minneapolis had two of them, National and Universal carloading."
Were not these firms acting as freight consolidators? and did they not complete their service by local trucking delivery?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Box car LCL consolidators (freight forwarders) continued
into the 1970's and maybe later. I'm sure they're still out
there but using intermodal instead of carload.

Tim O'Connor

Were not these firms acting as freight consolidators? and did
they not complete their service by local trucking delivery?
Tony Thompson


Schuyler Larrabee
 

It's called LTL.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 6:59 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Modeling LCL




Box car LCL consolidators (freight forwarders) continued
into the 1970's and maybe later. I'm sure they're still out
there but using intermodal instead of carload.

Tim O'Connor

Were not these firms acting as freight consolidators? and did
they not complete their service by local trucking delivery?
Tony Thompson







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Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Clark,

As you are modeling a medium sized city, Mason City Iowa. The LCL car could have many dozens of packages to unload each day and would delay the through freight too long. So the car would be set out and the switch crew would spot it at the freight house.

If you were modeling Ackley, Iowa, a small town further south on the MStL, the LCL car would be on the way freight and there the wayfreight crew would wrestle off the packages. the size of the town and amount of LCL business affects the delivery scheme.

Ted

At 03:28 PM 11/5/2009, you wrote:
I'm about finished with a trailer to set by my freight house just like the big boys did. The company trailer advertizes "Dependable Daily Service"

There's a photo of Bill Daranby's layout in an ad on page 101 of the latest MR.
Behind the engine is a 'Rider' car and next, with doors open, is a company box car with LCL. The idea is that the crew drops and/or picks up packages at the stations along the way.

My current plan is we have an Eastbound LCL car set out by the through freight. The switch crew spots it at the freight house and blocks the car that was at the freight house for the next EB to pick up. I need to do the same with a west bound car.

What we have is Bill's plan of just stopping for a few minutes for LCL verses my idea of having a car spend 24 hours in one town's freight house.

Are both of they plans correct? If one or both are not. How would LCL be handled between stations and freight houses?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
Rails Unlimited
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michael bishop <goldrod_1@...>
 

Where is the fine line between LCL and REA in the handling of a few packages at a station? I know at a freight house a LCL car could be dropped off with the car almost full, but the load could be made up several LCL shipment combined together for a shipment.
Thanks ofr any help.
 
Michael Bishop


Jared Harper
 

Here's how it was done on the Alma branch in Kansas in the 1940's. The motor car or the coach, baggage, and caboose car would be spotted at the depot in the morning where the Santa Fe Trailways truck on a Topeka-Emporia route could back up to the baggage door to unload the LCL from the previous day and to load up the LCL for the branch that day. LCL was freight in less than carload amounts. The depot agent handled the paperwork. There was also the Railway Express shipments. Railway Express was managed by the Railway Express Agency. It was similar to UPS or FedEx today. It was an expedited service and items shipped by Railway Express came by passenger train and were dropped at the Burlingame depot. The depot agent also handled the paperwork for the REA shipments and they were loaded in the baggage compartment with the LCL. REA paid the RR to handle their shipments. US mail was also loaded in the baggage compartment and the PO paid the RR to handle this also. Large pieces of personal baggage could also go into the baggage compartment. After everything was ready to go the Alma branch mixed went up the branch dropping off and picking up LCL, express, mail, passengers and, perhaps, their personal baggage. The headend brakeman was in charge of making sure all the LCL, express, and mail was dropped off or picked up. He got a separate monthly check from the express company for his duties. When the train got back to the depot in Burlingame the express and mail were unloaded at the depot. The LCL stayed in the baggage compartment to be picked up by the Santa Fe Trailways truck the next morning which would take it to Topeka when its route was completed. The express and mail would be put out for the next passenger train going the direction the express or mail was headed.

When the Alma branch train started tying up at Topeka in the late 1940s an old reefer or box car was parked by the Burlingame depot for LCL and the Santa Fe Trailways truck loaded and unloaded it on the Topeka-Emporia route. When the train came from Topeka to Burlingame it coupled up the car and took it up and back down the branch. Express and Mail came on the train from Topeka in the coach, baggage and caboose car and the train would pick up and leave off express and mail at each station. The headend brakeman filled his role as before.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, michael bishop <goldrod_1@...> wrote:



Where is the fine line between LCL and REA in the handling of a few packages at a station? I know at a freight house a LCL car could be dropped off with the car almost full, but the load could be made up several LCL shipment combined together for a shipment.
Thanks ofr any help.
 
Michael Bishop






rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Thanks Ted, that is my thought and ops plan. I have photos from the thirties with several cars spotted at the freighthouse.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:

Hi Clark,

As you are modeling a medium sized city, Mason City Iowa. The LCL car
could have many dozens of packages to unload each day and would delay
the through freight too long. So the car would be set out and the
switch crew would spot it at the freight house.

If you were modeling Ackley, Iowa, a small town further south on the
MStL, the LCL car would be on the way freight and there the
wayfreight crew would wrestle off the packages. the size of the town
and amount of LCL business affects the delivery scheme.

Ted


William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Jared,

Thank you for the LCL information that you posted. It is a great help
in understanding how the LCL operations might have been done on the
Gridley Branch with mixed trains #79-80. These were normally powered
by a motorcar.

I had been wondering if the doodlebug also carried the LCL. From what
you presented it can be assumed that it did as traveled from Ottawa,
Kansas, to Gridley, and return.

Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:22 PM, almabranch wrote:



Here's how it was done on the Alma branch in Kansas in the 1940's.
The motor car or the coach, baggage, and caboose car would be
spotted at the depot in the morning where the Santa Fe Trailways
truck on a Topeka-Emporia route could back up to the baggage door to
unload the LCL from the previous day and to load up the LCL for the
branch that day. LCL was freight in less than carload amounts. The
depot agent handled the paperwork. There was also the Railway
Express shipments. Railway Express was managed by the Railway
Express Agency. It was similar to UPS or FedEx today. It was an
expedited service and items shipped by Railway Express came by
passenger train and were dropped at the Burlingame depot. The depot
agent also handled the paperwork for the REA shipments and they were
loaded in the baggage compartment with the LCL. REA paid the RR to
handle their shipments. US mail was also loaded in the baggage
compartment and the PO paid the RR to handle this also. Large pieces
of personal baggage could also go into the baggage compartment.
After everything was ready to go the Alma branch mixed went up the
branch dropping off and picking up LCL, express, mail, passengers
and, perhaps, their personal baggage. The headend brakeman was in
charge of making sure all the LCL, express, and mail was dropped off
or picked up. He got a separate monthly check from the express
company for his duties. When the train got back to the depot in
Burlingame the express and mail were unloaded at the depot. The LCL
stayed in the baggage compartment to be picked up by the Santa Fe
Trailways truck the next morning which would take it to Topeka when
its route was completed. The express and mail would be put out for
the next passenger train going the direction the express or mail was
headed.

When the Alma branch train started tying up at Topeka in the late
1940s an old reefer or box car was parked by the Burlingame depot
for LCL and the Santa Fe Trailways truck loaded and unloaded it on
the Topeka-Emporia route. When the train came from Topeka to
Burlingame it coupled up the car and took it up and back down the
branch. Express and Mail came on the train from Topeka in the coach,
baggage and caboose car and the train would pick up and leave off
express and mail at each station. The headend brakeman filled his
role as before.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, michael bishop <goldrod_1@...> wrote:



Where is the fine line between LCL and REA in the handling of a
few packages at a station? I know at a freight house a LCL car could
be dropped off with the car almost full, but the load could be made
up several LCL shipment combined together for a shipment.
Thanks ofr any help.

Michael Bishop




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Steve SANDIFER
 

Santa Fe began running the Santa Fe transportation truck line in 1939.  Prior to that the railroad relied heavily on rail for LCL.  From 1939 at least in Eastern Kansas they shipped to major locations by rail and then to lesser places by truck. This reduced delivery time by as much as 2 days.  I have a clinic on this to convert to print/web.

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, almabranch <harperandbrown@gmail.com> wrote:


From: almabranch <harperandbrown@gmail.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Modeling LCL
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 11:22 PM


 





Here's how it was done on the Alma branch in Kansas in the 1940's. The motor car or the coach, baggage, and caboose car would be spotted at the depot in the morning where the Santa Fe Trailways truck on a Topeka-Emporia route could back up to the baggage door to unload the LCL from the previous day and to load up the LCL for the branch that day. LCL was freight in less than carload amounts. The depot agent handled the paperwork. There was also the Railway Express shipments. Railway Express was managed by the Railway Express Agency. It was similar to UPS or FedEx today. It was an expedited service and items shipped by Railway Express came by passenger train and were dropped at the Burlingame depot. The depot agent also handled the paperwork for the REA shipments and they were loaded in the baggage compartment with the LCL. REA paid the RR to handle their shipments. US mail was also loaded in the baggage compartment and the PO paid the RR to handle this
also. Large pieces of personal baggage could also go into the baggage compartment. After everything was ready to go the Alma branch mixed went up the branch dropping off and picking up LCL, express, mail, passengers and, perhaps, their personal baggage. The headend brakeman was in charge of making sure all the LCL, express, and mail was dropped off or picked up. He got a separate monthly check from the express company for his duties. When the train got back to the depot in Burlingame the express and mail were unloaded at the depot. The LCL stayed in the baggage compartment to be picked up by the Santa Fe Trailways truck the next morning which would take it to Topeka when its route was completed. The express and mail would be put out for the next passenger train going the direction the express or mail was headed.

When the Alma branch train started tying up at Topeka in the late 1940s an old reefer or box car was parked by the Burlingame depot for LCL and the Santa Fe Trailways truck loaded and unloaded it on the Topeka-Emporia route. When the train came from Topeka to Burlingame it coupled up the car and took it up and back down the branch. Express and Mail came on the train from Topeka in the coach, baggage and caboose car and the train would pick up and leave off express and mail at each station. The headend brakeman filled his role as before.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, michael bishop <goldrod_1@. ..> wrote:



Where is the fine line between LCL and REA in the handling of a few packages at a station? I know at a freight house a LCL car could be dropped off with the car almost full, but the load could be made up several LCL shipment combined together for a shipment.
Thanks ofr any help.
 
Michael Bishop




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


np328
 

Several years ago, while looking for material on NP boxcar cabooses this following bit on LCL info came out.

Some background info: Carlton, MN is where two subs of NP lines cross; from Superior, WI to Staples, MN; and the Twin Ports /Twin Cities line. In Carlton, there was a small yard and a six mile branch to Cloquet, MN wyed off. All lines from the Twin Ports have climbed out of the Lake Superior watershed, however trains out of Carlton heading compass south or west can still use a help getting started as the steep climb has lessened, but it is uphill for a bit more.

NP Lake Superior Division F-27 No.13 records the destruction of caboose 1428 by fire on the morning of Jan. 8, 1945. The road switch crew went on duty at 4:00 AM in Carlton and in the cabooses stove a fire left by the night crew was still burning. The crew was involved in making up, and then pushing out the local way freights. Prior to pushing out the Third District local at 7:30 AM, they spotted the caboose at the depot so it might be loaded with express. Brakeman North tended to the fire in the cabooses stove and replenished it, as it had burnt down. The crew returning after pushing out of the local, brakemen LeVasseur and North assisted Clerk Baker in loading 44 parcels of express boxes. All men stated that the express was properly loaded and none of it closer than 4 feet from the stove. The caboose was then pushed down the third district main and a 35 car train for Cloquet assembled. The caboose being on fire was first noticed about 8:20 AM and efforts to extinguish the fire were of no use. The Carlton Fire dept. was summoned however fire equipment was found to be frozen. To prevent blocking the main track, the burning caboose was coupled onto and taken to the rip track where it was left to burn.
(Report of Jan 10, 1945 to J A Mercer)

At this time, there were several boxcars being converted to caboose duty. The last car of the lot, 1533 was then chosen to have this work done. This under NP AFE AFE 5064-44. IIRC correctly, 1533 ran in this duty into the early sixties. (There were two other sidedoor cabooses IIRC at this time in express use on the NP.)

On the NP Ollie branch out of Beach, ND, where express and passengers were carried in the caboose, I recall a letter from the crew asked if a partition might be put up to separate the express as peeping from chicks being delivered bothered passengers and crew alike. (Chicks – yesteryear's equivalent of cell phone annoyance.)

If side door cabooses are not your thing, there was also the NP trains between Bemidji and Brainerd, MN. These had cabooses on the front end and back end. A caboose was on the head end there "because of considerable switching and handling of LCL freight with these very long trains", that got shoved out of Bemidji by the yard switcher. (Letter, December 12th, 1939 - E H Jacobs, Superintendent, Minnesota & International)

Credit all above data to NP Rwy files found at the Minnesota Historical Society.
James Dick - St. Paul