Express box brake system layout


Bud Rindfleisch
 

Hi,
Does anyone know of any diagrams or plans showing the underfloor layout of brake components, piping and train and steam lines on express boxcars like SP, and DL&W 40' steel cars? I'm guessing the reservoir, cylinders and AB valves had to be passenger train compatible.
Appreciate any help.
Bud Rindfleisch


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bud Rindfleisch1 wrote:
Does anyone know of any diagrams or plans showing the underfloor layout of brake components, piping and train and steam lines on express boxcars like SP, and DL&W 40' steel cars? I'm guessing the reservoir, cylinders and AB valves had to be passenger train compatible.
I don't have a drawing for the SP cars, Bud, but as far as I can tell from photos, the brake gear is LOCATED the same as on a freight car. You're right, the brakes had to work in passenger service, but did not have to be the SAME as passenger brake gear.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


steve l <stevelucas3@...>
 

I'd imagine that the same brake gear could very well have been used. Troop sleepers used two sets of Wabco AB-1-B brake gear. It is similar in appearance to freight AB gear, the only difference being that the control valve was fitted for graduated release to work in passenger trains.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bud Rindfleisch1 wrote:
Does anyone know of any diagrams or plans showing the underfloor
layout of brake components, piping and train and steam lines on
express boxcars like SP, and DL&W 40' steel cars? I'm guessing the
reservoir, cylinders and AB valves had to be passenger train
compatible.
I don't have a drawing for the SP cars, Bud, but as far as I can
tell from photos, the brake gear is LOCATED the same as on a freight
car. You're right, the brakes had to work in passenger service, but
did not have to be the SAME as passenger brake gear.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
I'd imagine that the same brake gear could very well have been used. Troop sleepers used two sets of Wabco AB-1-B brake gear. It is similar in appearance to freight AB gear, the only difference being that the control valve was fitted for graduated release to work in passenger trains.
Exactly, and in fact, the SP cars did have AB-1-B gear.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "steve l" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:


I'd imagine that the same brake gear could very well have been used. Troop sleepers used two sets of Wabco AB-1-B brake gear. It is similar in appearance to freight AB gear, the only difference being that the control valve was fitted for graduated release to work in passenger trains.

Steve Lucas.
AB equipment is enjoying a certain amount of popularity with tourists railroads these days, using it to re-equip coaches where valve portions, gaskets, and testing services for the original equipment have become either exceedingly expensive or nonexistent. It works well enough. I've never bothered to ask if they are setting it up as the 1-B graduated release variant; not really a problem if the majority of other equipment has P equipment, which isn't graduated release either.

The one visible difference with the AB-1-B valve is a second "wig-wag" valve similar to the bleed valve; this second valve only bleeds the cylinder, rather than the whole brake system as on the freight version. The illustration of an AB valve Gene Green published in his brake equipment handout a couple years ago is actually an assembled AB-1-B valve, and has this second bleed valve. I've never thought to look to see if both valves are rodded to the outside of the car, or which of the two is.

Dennis


steve l <stevelucas3@...>
 

Just curious, Dennis. Is the "wig-wag" valve for graduated release located on the pipe bracket (I'm assuming so), or near the brake cylinder? Suggestions for modelling this if it's a visible feature on the brake gear?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "steve l" <stevelucas3@> wrote:


I'd imagine that the same brake gear could very well have been used. Troop sleepers used two sets of Wabco AB-1-B brake gear. It is similar in appearance to freight AB gear, the only difference being that the control valve was fitted for graduated release to work in passenger trains.

Steve Lucas.
AB equipment is enjoying a certain amount of popularity with tourists railroads these days, using it to re-equip coaches where valve portions, gaskets, and testing services for the original equipment have become either exceedingly expensive or nonexistent. It works well enough. I've never bothered to ask if they are setting it up as the 1-B graduated release variant; not really a problem if the majority of other equipment has P equipment, which isn't graduated release either.

The one visible difference with the AB-1-B valve is a second "wig-wag" valve similar to the bleed valve; this second valve only bleeds the cylinder, rather than the whole brake system as on the freight version. The illustration of an AB valve Gene Green published in his brake equipment handout a couple years ago is actually an assembled AB-1-B valve, and has this second bleed valve. I've never thought to look to see if both valves are rodded to the outside of the car, or which of the two is.

Dennis


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "steve l" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

Just curious, Dennis. Is the "wig-wag" valve for graduated release located on the pipe bracket (I'm assuming so), or near the brake cylinder? Suggestions for modelling this if it's a visible feature on the brake gear?

Steve Lucas.
Boy, every time I get involved with an air brake discussion, I end up spending hours looking for diagrams I know I've seen before. It's a shame that Westinghouse didn't have ONE all encompassing catalog where one could identify any component.

That "wig wag" has a proper name; it's a "Duplex Release Valve." It normally mounts on the service portion of the AB equipment. The diagram in Gene's materials shows a second mounted on the "front" of the pipe bracket (the side opposite the ports for the pipe connections. The 1957 CBC shows a diagram of "AB Freight car brake equipment" that includes this feature, in two alternate locations, labeled "brake cylinder release valve." The other location is on the pipe to the brake cylinder. This diagram must be showing all the options available with standard AB equipment, since it also shows an automatic ratchet type slack adjuster piped to a port on the brake cylinder.

The New York Air Brake Co. section of the same book shows a photo of this valve installed on the pipe bracket; they identify it as a "QRR Brake Cylinder Release Valve portion." In both cases, it must require a pipe bracket with custom drillings.

The AB-1-B equipment is also illustrated in both the 1953 and 1957 CBCs. It does have some interesting additional equipment; a thin slice (my guess, maybe 1.5" thick) that sandwiches between the pipe bracket and the service portion of the valve, that has an additional pipe port. This additional pipe runs to a T in the signal line, and automatically varies the function of the AB valve depending upon whether there is air pressure in the signal line or not. With no pressure in the signal line, the valve functions as a freight valve, with pressure, it more closely matched the characteristics of passenger equipment.

In addition, both the Westinghouse and New York diagrams show an additional small valve remotely connected to the train line; both companies call this the "A-2-A Continuous Quick Service Valve." I suspect this functioned similar to a modern day relay valve used on long cars.

Biggest problem with using pipe schematics from the CBC is I suspect that some of these features were options, so there is no way to know if they were present on the actual cars in question unless the valves are listed on the BOM.

Dennis


Bud Rindfleisch
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bud Rindfleisch1 wrote:
Does anyone know of any diagrams or plans showing the underfloor
layout of brake components, piping and train and steam lines on
express boxcars like SP, and DL&W 40' steel cars? I'm guessing the
reservoir, cylinders and AB valves had to be passenger train
compatible.
I don't have a drawing for the SP cars, Bud, but as far as I can
tell from photos, the brake gear is LOCATED the same as on a freight
car. You're right, the brakes had to work in passenger service, but
did not have to be the SAME as passenger brake gear.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Thanks Tony! I was hoping to see an underbody drawing somewhere to get a better idea. I have seen the drawings for the troop sleepers. I'm hoping that just adding a steam line would make it close if not 100%, appearance-wise.
Bud Rindfleisch


Bud Rindfleisch
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "steve l" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:


I'd imagine that the same brake gear could very well have been used. Troop sleepers used two sets of Wabco AB-1-B brake gear. It is similar in appearance to freight AB gear, the only difference being that the control valve was fitted for graduated release to work in passenger trains.

Steve Lucas.

-
Steve, That was my thought too. I have seen the drawings for the Pullman troop sleepers, can't vouch for their accuracy though. (MR drawings)
Bud Rindfleisch