Painting Trucks


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 11, 2009, at 8:57 AM, Camas74 wrote:

I have painted TMW trucks with Floquil, Scalecoat 1&2, Star brand,
Pollyscale and WIndsor & Newton oils paints with no problems...
I have occasionally had problems with paint of any type wearing or
flaking off Celcon truck frames, but the solution is a simple one
which I carry out routinely: grit blast the truck frames.
Grit blasting with fine abrasive doesn't harm the detail (of course,
you want to avoid directing the abrasive into the bearing cones) and,
if what you want are grimy black/dark gray trucks with an absolutely
flat finish, that's all you need to do. When trucks need to be
painted, the flat finish left by grit blasting holds paint very
well. It's easy, only takes a few minutes, and yields a finish that
will last forever. Don't have a grit blaster? Go get one. Those of
us who have them regard them as an absolutely essential modeling
tool, on a par with a good air brush.

Richard Hendrickson


Tim O'Connor
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote

Don't have a grit blaster? Go get one. Those of us who have them
regard them as an absolutely essential modeling tool, on a par with
a good air brush.

In addition, I recently bought a Badger "air eraser" kit (just a
bottle with some grit and a tip) and I have hooked this up with my
grit booth. I find I can safely remove small amounts of lettering
with very fine control, and I've even started using it as a
weathering tool. For example, I use it to "whiten" freight car
lettering which I have hit a little too hard with grime. In another
case I had a box car with a primer coat of "galvanized metal" color
and an overcoat of box car red. I was able to remove some of the top
layer so the galvanized color showed through. Very cool!

I "paint" trucks only rarely. I grit blast, wash them, and hit them w/
alcohol washes (india ink, rust, etc). They come out great. Sometimes
I go back over with Floquil dry brush to show oil spills, etc.

Tim O'Connor


kenneth broomfield
 

I have a sand blasting cabinet that I use with my auto restoration. Can I use that to blast HO freight cars? Would I have to change the sand out to what you guys use? I have heard of grit blasting but am not very familer with how fine the grit is. Would the sand blasting cabinet be just a booth and use another thing to clean the cars?
 
Kenny Broomfield

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Painting Trucks
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 12:27 PM


 



Richard Hendrickson wrote

Don't have a grit blaster? Go get one. Those of us who have them
regard them as an absolutely essential modeling tool, on a par with
a good air brush.
In addition, I recently bought a Badger "air eraser" kit (just a
bottle with some grit and a tip) and I have hooked this up with my
grit booth. I find I can safely remove small amounts of lettering
with very fine control, and I've even started using it as a
weathering tool. For example, I use it to "whiten" freight car
lettering which I have hit a little too hard with grime. In another
case I had a box car with a primer coat of "galvanized metal" color
and an overcoat of box car red. I was able to remove some of the top
layer so the galvanized color showed through. Very cool!

I "paint" trucks only rarely. I grit blast, wash them, and hit them w/
alcohol washes (india ink, rust, etc). They come out great. Sometimes
I go back over with Floquil dry brush to show oil spills, etc.

Tim O'Connor











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Anything blasting in the open air is VERY messy. I do it sometimes
but my booth is in the garage.

Model grit is pretty fine aluminum oxide. I would think that car
restoration uses much coarser grit.

Tim O'

At 11/11/2009 03:56 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
I have a sand blasting cabinet that I use with my auto restoration. Can I use that to blast HO freight cars? Would I have to change the sand out to what you guys use? I have heard of grit blasting but am not very familer with how fine the grit is. Would the sand blasting cabinet be just a booth and use another thing to clean the cars?
�
Kenny Broomfield


Charles Hladik
 

Kenny,
Grit blasting cleans up the plastic by etching to give the paint
"tooth", something to hold onto.
There are many paint strippers and most if not all need to be tested
on a blind spot of the model before full tilt.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 11/11/2009 10:10:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
newtmachineworks@... writes:




Why is this grit blasting superior to say some kind of paint stripper?
Also, what kind of paint stripper works best for taking a model all the way
down to bare plastic or brass?

Kenny Broomfield

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, David North <_davenorth@...
(mailto:davenorth@...) > wrote:

From: David North <_davenorth@...
(mailto:davenorth@...) >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Painting Trucks
To: _STMFC@... (mailto:STMFC@...)
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:25 PM



In addition, I recently bought a Badger "air eraser" kit (just a
bottle with some grit and a tip) and I have hooked this up with my
grit booth. I find I can safely remove small amounts of lettering
with very fine control, and I've even started using it as a
weathering tool. For example, I use it to "whiten" freight car
lettering which I have hit a little too hard with grime. In another
case I had a box car with a primer coat of "galvanized metal" color
and an overcoat of box car red. I was able to remove some of the top
layer so the galvanized color showed through. Very cool!
Tim O'Connor
Hi Tim,

If you want an even gentler abrasive for that fine partial removal, try
Bicarbonate Soda aka Baking Soda.

And you can do the blasting outside, which gives you a better view of the
work than through the window of the blasting cabinet.

Cheers

Dave North

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., kenneth broomfield <newtmachineworks@...> wrote:

I have a sand blasting cabinet that I use with my auto restoration. Can I use that to blast HO freight cars? Would I have to change the sand out to what you guys use? I have heard of grit blasting but am not very familer with how fine the grit is. Would the sand blasting cabinet be just a booth and use another thing to clean the cars?
Â
Kenny Broomfield
Sure, but you need to get some fine grit... either 180 or 220 grit Al Oxide works for me. You also want to be using a "gun" that's about airbrush size. Horrid Freight Salvage seems to have something suitable. Also, make sure you turn the air pressure down to start with, ESPECIALLY if blasting plastic.

Oh, yeah, some people use baking soda for grit to strip plastic, although I haven't tried it.

Dennis


Eric Mumper
 

Group,

Since I have yet to purchase a grit blaster, the last time I was faced with the problem of painting truck frames I used SoftScrub on them applied with an old toothbrush. The process did not appear to damage any detail and it gave a nice dull sheen which should allow the paint to adhere properly. These trucks do not have many miles on them yet, so these results are still preliminary but so far very encouraging.

Eric Mumper

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Nov 11, 2009, at 8:57 AM, Camas74 wrote:

I have painted TMW trucks with Floquil, Scalecoat 1&2, Star brand,
Pollyscale and WIndsor & Newton oils paints with no problems...
I have occasionally had problems with paint of any type wearing or
flaking off Celcon truck frames, but the solution is a simple one
which I carry out routinely: grit blast the truck frames.
Grit blasting with fine abrasive doesn't harm the detail (of course,
you want to avoid directing the abrasive into the bearing cones) and,
if what you want are grimy black/dark gray trucks with an absolutely
flat finish, that's all you need to do. When trucks need to be
painted, the flat finish left by grit blasting holds paint very
well. It's easy, only takes a few minutes, and yields a finish that
will last forever. Don't have a grit blaster? Go get one. Those of
us who have them regard them as an absolutely essential modeling
tool, on a par with a good air brush.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis

I've tried it (this is what I shoot without the booth) and
it does work, but SLOWLY. Baking Soda is pretty fine stuff...
and it also clogs more easily when it's humid.

Tim O'Connor

Oh, yeah, some people use baking soda for grit to strip plastic, although I haven't tried it.
Dennis


David North <davenorth@...>
 

In addition, I recently bought a Badger "air eraser" kit (just a
bottle with some grit and a tip) and I have hooked this up with my
grit booth. I find I can safely remove small amounts of lettering
with very fine control, and I've even started using it as a
weathering tool. For example, I use it to "whiten" freight car
lettering which I have hit a little too hard with grime. In another
case I had a box car with a primer coat of "galvanized metal" color
and an overcoat of box car red. I was able to remove some of the top
layer so the galvanized color showed through. Very cool!
Tim O'Connor




Hi Tim,

If you want an even gentler abrasive for that fine partial removal, try
Bicarbonate Soda aka Baking Soda.

And you can do the blasting outside, which gives you a better view of the
work than through the window of the blasting cabinet.

Cheers

Dave North


David North <davenorth@...>
 

I have a sand blasting cabinet that I use with my auto restoration. Can I
use that to blast HO freight cars? Would I have to change the sand out to
what you guys use? I have heard of grit blasting but am not very familer
with how fine the grit is. Would the sand blasting cabinet be just a booth
and use another thing to clean the cars?
Kenny Broomfield











Are you saying you use sand for blasting auto parts??

That is REALLY dangerous to your health.



I use 150 alum oxide for car parts blasting, at full unregulated pressure
from my compressor.

That will leave a rough finish on a plastic model. (As me how I know <g>)



For model blasting I use a Badger 260. The instructions say to operate at
30psi and never exceed 80psi.

Badger provide 220 grit alum oxide for the abrasive blaster.

Cheers

Dave North


kenneth broomfield
 

"Are you saying you use sand for blasting auto parts??

That is REALLY dangerous to your health".

I have never heard of this. I actually have alum oxide in the cabinet but use sand for my big pressure blaster for fenders and what not. Not sure of the grit that it is.

"That will leave a rough finish on a plastic model. (As me how I know <g>)"

I have actually tried it as well on the grit that I have and your correct it does leave a rough finish. But my question is would it make sense to use some finner things at a lower pressure in the cabinet?

Kenny Broomfield


kenneth broomfield
 

Why is this grit blasting superior to say some kind of paint stripper? Also, what kind of paint stripper works best for taking a model all the way down to bare plastic or brass?
 
Kenny Broomfield

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, David North <davenorth@...> wrote:


From: David North <davenorth@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Painting Trucks
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:25 PM


 



In addition, I recently bought a Badger "air eraser" kit (just a
bottle with some grit and a tip) and I have hooked this up with my
grit booth. I find I can safely remove small amounts of lettering
with very fine control, and I've even started using it as a
weathering tool. For example, I use it to "whiten" freight car
lettering which I have hit a little too hard with grime. In another
case I had a box car with a primer coat of "galvanized metal" color
and an overcoat of box car red. I was able to remove some of the top
layer so the galvanized color showed through. Very cool!
Tim O'Connor
Hi Tim,

If you want an even gentler abrasive for that fine partial removal, try
Bicarbonate Soda aka Baking Soda.

And you can do the blasting outside, which gives you a better view of the
work than through the window of the blasting cabinet.

Cheers

Dave North

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


tbarney2004
 

It is not about stripping paint in the topic's example of painting trucks, but about altering the surface texture of the plastic to give the paint something to adhere to. Paint will NOT adhere well to shiny, slick engineering plastics (the types typically used for trucks). Grit blasting abrades the surface, creating microscopic cracks and crevices and other surface anomalies into which the paint will flow to aid adhesion.

Tim Barney

kenneth broomfield wrote:

Why is this grit blasting superior to say some kind of paint stripper? Also, what kind of paint stripper works best for taking a model all the way down to bare plastic or brass?
Kenny Broomfield

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, David North <davenorth@...> wrote:


From: David North <davenorth@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Painting Trucks
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:25 PM






In addition, I recently bought a Badger "air eraser" kit (just a
bottle with some grit and a tip) and I have hooked this up with my
grit booth. I find I can safely remove small amounts of lettering
with very fine control, and I've even started using it as a
weathering tool. For example, I use it to "whiten" freight car
lettering which I have hit a little too hard with grime. In another
case I had a box car with a primer coat of "galvanized metal" color
and an overcoat of box car red. I was able to remove some of the top
layer so the galvanized color showed through. Very cool!


Tim O'Connor
 

Ken

Yes, we use paint stripper to strip entire models. Grit blasting
puts an "etch" on slippery plastics that make them far easier to
paint. Chemical stripping is intended to be harmless to the plastic
including not etching it. Grit blasting transforms shiny metal
etched running boards into beautifully "galvanized" pieces of metal.
It can be used very selectively on small areas of a finished model.
And it can thoroughly remove stubborn bits of paint on delicate
parts that remain after chemical stripping. It's an invaluable tool
as Richard said.

Tim O'Connor

At 11/11/2009 10:09 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Why is this grit blasting superior to say some kind of paint stripper? Also, what kind of paint stripper works best for taking a model all the way down to bare plastic or brass?
�
Kenny Broomfield


steve l <stevelucas3@...>
 

So, if etched/formed HO/O scale, etc., car rooves were made, they could be made to look like galvanised material by grit blasting? If so, this would be a modeller's painting conundrum solved for those modelling STMFC's fitted with galvanised rooves. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Ken

Yes, we use paint stripper to strip entire models. Grit blasting
puts an "etch" on slippery plastics that make them far easier to
paint. Chemical stripping is intended to be harmless to the plastic
including not etching it. Grit blasting transforms shiny metal
etched running boards into beautifully "galvanized" pieces of metal.
It can be used very selectively on small areas of a finished model.
And it can thoroughly remove stubborn bits of paint on delicate
parts that remain after chemical stripping. It's an invaluable tool
as Richard said.

Tim O'Connor



At 11/11/2009 10:09 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Why is this grit blasting superior to say some kind of paint stripper? Also, what kind of paint stripper works best for taking a model all the way down to bare plastic or brass?
Â
Kenny Broomfield


Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Paint will NOT adhere well to shiny,
slick engineering plastics (the types typically used for trucks). Grit
blasting abrades the surface, creating microscopic cracks and crevices
and other surface anomalies into which the paint will flow to aid
adhesion.

This is true, but....in real time, in my own experience, it proves to
be an issue have absolutely no bearing on what actually occurs in the
context of everyday experience.

Much of the engineering plastic that we paint are in small parts with
relatively high relief and with small surfaces, i.e. truck frames; and
although the paint probably probably does not undergo true surface
adherence, the dried paint film does seem to have enough mechanical
grip on and about the interstices and projections of the detailing
that peeling paint is simply not a problem.

I have been routinely painting all trucks and wheels with Floquil
permutations (Rail Brown, weathered black, etc. ) by hand mostly,
occasionally with air brush, for the past 16 years, initially in
ignorance of the engineering plastic/paint adherence issues. Well,
these years later, not a single paint problem has shown up- not one.
I just painted several truck pairs yesterday.

I do have a blast cabinet, (aluminum oxide) and it is admittedly quite
underutilized for many modeling chores that probably would be of
benefit to me. Blasting plastic trucks to hold paint is not one of
them.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

I agree Denny. Some sort of "vinyl" is used in armor kits for rubber tires and tank tracks and many people have trouble painting them because they must flex to be installed. I did at first as well until I learned to simply give the parts a good scrubbing with dish detergent and an old toothbrush, a good scrubbing rinse, and an air dry. (I do this to the entire model actually.) Only once did I still have a problem. In that case, I washed and scrubbed off the paint, wiped the parts thoroughly with mineral spirits, then re-did the wash cycle. To be extry sure, I used an enamel base color coat rather than my usual acrylic (I never use primer.) No problemo.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Denny Anspach

Much of the engineering plastic that we paint are in small parts with
relatively high relief and with small surfaces, i.e. truck frames; and
although the paint probably probably does not undergo true surface
adherence, the dried paint film does seem to have enough mechanical
grip on and about the interstices and projections of the detailing
that peeling paint is simply not a problem.


kenneth broomfield
 

What Kind of chemical paint "stripper" is best?
 
Kenny Broomfield

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Painting Trucks
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:23 PM


 



Ken

Yes, we use paint stripper to strip entire models. Grit blasting
puts an "etch" on slippery plastics that make them far easier to
paint. Chemical stripping is intended to be harmless to the plastic
including not etching it. Grit blasting transforms shiny metal
etched running boards into beautifully "galvanized" pieces of metal.
It can be used very selectively on small areas of a finished model.
And it can thoroughly remove stubborn bits of paint on delicate
parts that remain after chemical stripping. It's an invaluable tool
as Richard said.

Tim O'Connor

At 11/11/2009 10:09 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Why is this grit blasting superior to say some kind of paint stripper? Also, what kind of paint stripper works best for taking a model all the way down to bare plastic or brass?
Â
Kenny Broomfield










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]