Does anyone have information on the type of running board and brake step on 40ft boxcars NJI&I 4100-4270? These are steel 8-panel riveted cars of 10ft 4 1/2in internal height, 5/5 ends, and--I think--rectangular panel roofs. From profile view the running boards appear to be metal. Though akin to standard 1944 AAR design (aside from the modified side panels side sills continuous between bolsters) these cars aren't listed in my version of Ed Hawkins' table of 1944 AAR boxcars.

Here's an excellent Jim Sands photo at Fallen Flags:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/wab/njii4254ajs.jpg

Also if anyone has suggestions about decal sources in HO for this car, I'd welcome that.

Thanks,

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

On Nov 17, 2009, at 11:13 AM, leakinmywaders wrote:

Does anyone have information on the type of running board and brake
step on 40ft boxcars NJI&I 4100-4270? These are steel 8-panel riveted
cars of 10ft 4 1/2in internal height, 5/5 ends, and--I
think--rectangular panel roofs. From profile view the running boards
appear to be metal. Though akin to standard 1944 AAR design (aside
from the modified side panels side sills continuous between bolsters)
these cars aren't listed in my version of Ed Hawkins' table of 1944
AAR boxcars.

Here's an excellent Jim Sands photo at Fallen Flags:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/wab/njii4254ajs.jpg

Also if anyone has suggestions about decal sources in HO for this
car, I'd welcome that.

Thanks,
Chris Frissell

Chris,
It's best that Chet French reply to your question to provide what you
are looking for.

Note that the car in the photo has 8-panel sides. Cars in the series
NJI&I 4100-4270 came from two different groups, 50 of which were built
as all-steel cars having 10-panel sides (4100-4149) in 1944 and the
others with 8-panel sides as shown in the photo of 4254. It's unclear
to me if 4100-4149 were the original numbers or if Wabash transferred
them to NJI&I from the original WAB 86000-86874.

The 4254 was originally a war emergency box car from WAB 87000-87124
(refer to Pat Wider's article in RP CYC Vol. 19). Circa 1961-62 (out of
scope for this forum) remaining cars were rebuilt as all-steel cars
with 8-panel riveted sides and placed in series 4150-4270. This is why
these cars aren't listed the roster I prepared.

The 10-panel cars in series NJI&I 4100-4149 should be included in the
AAR box car roster, but I must first determine if these were original
numbers or if they were transferred from Wabash 86000-86874, and if
so, the date of the transfer. There may have been some other cars
renumbered because in 4/51 there were only 607 cars listed in series
WAB 86000-86874.

No doubt that Chet has the answers!
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

On Nov 17, 2009, at 11:13 AM, leakinmywaders wrote:

Does anyone have information on the type of running board and brake
step on 40ft boxcars NJI&I 4100-4270? These are steel 8-panel riveted
cars of 10ft 4 1/2in internal height, 5/5 ends, and--I
think--rectangular panel roofs. From profile view the running boards
appear to be metal. Though akin to standard 1944 AAR design (aside
from the modified side panels side sills continuous between bolsters)
these cars aren't listed in my version of Ed Hawkins' table of 1944
AAR boxcars.

Here's an excellent Jim Sands photo at Fallen Flags:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/wab/njii4254ajs.jpg

Also if anyone has suggestions about decal sources in HO for this
car, I'd welcome that.

Thanks,
Chris Frissell

Chris,
It's best that Chet French reply to your question to provide what you
are looking for.

Note that the car in the photo has 8-panel sides. Cars in the series
NJI&I 4100-4270 came from two different groups, 50 of which were built
as all-steel cars having 10-panel sides (4100-4149) in 1944 and the
others with 8-panel sides as shown in the photo of 4254. It's unclear
to me if 4100-4149 were the original numbers or if Wabash transferred
them to NJI&I from the original WAB 86000-86874.

The 4254 was originally a war emergency box car from WAB 87000-87124
(refer to Pat Wider's article in RP CYC Vol. 19). Circa 1961-62 (out of
scope for this forum) remaining cars were rebuilt as all-steel cars
with 8-panel riveted sides and placed in series 4150-4270. This is why
these cars aren't listed the roster I prepared.

The 10-panel cars in series NJI&I 4100-4149 should be included in the
AAR box car roster, but I must first determine if these were original
numbers or if they were transferred from Wabash 86000-86874, and if
so, the date of the transfer. There may have been some other cars
renumbered because in 4/51 there were only 607 cars listed in series
WAB 86000-86874.

Chris and Ed,

The NJI&I 4100-4149 series cars were built new by Decatur shop in
1944, at the same time the second group of Wabash 86000 series
cars were being built. Wabash 86000-86519 were built in 1942, and
86520-86874 in 1944. The reason for the decreased number of cars in the 86000 series after 1950 was a result of 263 cars being sent in September of that year to the Evans Co., in Plymouth, Mich.,for application of DF utility loaders. The randomly selected cars were
equipped and renumbered 9000-9199 and 9300-9362.

Two fifty car lots of the Wabash war emergency cars, rebuilt into all-steel cars, were sent to the NJI&I in August (4150-4199) and November
(4200-4249) 1960. My detailed records end in December 1960. It appears that NJI&I 4254 was from a group of cars turned out be Decatur shop in January 1961. Looks like a XD 1-61 reweigh date on the car.

Here is where my research hasn't ended. The NJI&I 4254 is painted in what I have referred to as the 1961 scheme. This large flag scheme was introduced on the last new 40'-6" box cars purchased by the Wabash
in 1961, the 91000-91514 series cars with a nine foot door opening.
I have not seen a photo of a car in the 4150-4249 series, so I do not know if the large flag lettering scheme was authorized prior to 1961, to be used on the cars outshopped in August and November 1960, or did those 100 cars get the small flag?

Chris, I imagine the rebuilt war emergency cars kept their Apex Tri-Lok running boards and brake step, and Miner hand brakes. Mark Vaughan sells Wabash box car decals. You need the set with the large flags and nine inch car numbers.

Chet French
Dixon, IL

On Nov 17, 2009, at 8:14 PM, cef39us wrote:

The NJI&I 4100-4149 series cars were built new by Decatur shop in
1944, at the same time the second group of Wabash 86000 series
cars were being built. Wabash 86000-86519 were built in 1942, and
86520-86874 in 1944. The reason for the decreased number of cars in
the 86000 series after 1950 was a result of 263 cars being sent in
September of that year to the Evans Co., in Plymouth, Mich.,for
application of DF utility loaders. The randomly selected cars were
equipped and renumbered 9000-9199 and 9300-9362.

Chet,
Thanks for your explanation that clarifies these cars. Another item
that has added to my confusion of these cars is a photo of WAB 86694
taken by Col. Chet McCoid in 1956. The build date of the car clearly
has "BUILT 9-40" stencils. Presumably this was a mistake.

Also, the photo of WAB 86694 from the second group shows a 7-panel
Superior door, whereas a photo of WAB 86271 from the first group built
in 1942 shows a Youngstown door. A photo of NJI&I 4145 shows a
Youngstown door. Do you have data on the door assignments for the cars
in series 86000-86874?

Thanks in advance.
Ed Hawkins

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

On Nov 17, 2009, at 8:14 PM, cef39us wrote:

The NJI&I 4100-4149 series cars were built new by Decatur shop in
1944, at the same time the second group of Wabash 86000 series
cars were being built. Wabash 86000-86519 were built in 1942, and
86520-86874 in 1944. The reason for the decreased number of cars in
the 86000 series after 1950 was a result of 263 cars being sent in
September of that year to the Evans Co., in Plymouth, Mich.,for
application of DF utility loaders. The randomly selected cars were
equipped and renumbered 9000-9199 and 9300-9362.

Chet,
Thanks for your explanation that clarifies these cars. Another item
that has added to my confusion of these cars is a photo of WAB 86694
taken by Col. Chet McCoid in 1956. The build date of the car clearly
has "BUILT 9-40" stencils. Presumably this was a mistake.

Also, the photo of WAB 86694 from the second group shows a 7-panel
Superior door, whereas a photo of WAB 86271 from the first group built
in 1942 shows a Youngstown door. A photo of NJI&I 4145 shows a
Youngstown door. Do you have data on the door assignments for the cars
in series 86000-86874?

Ed,

I have photos of 86555, 86684, 86727, and 86856 and three of them have 8-44 built dates and all have 7-panel Superior doors. The two photos I have of the 1942 cars show Youngstown doors. I do not have any data on door assignments other than photographic evidence.

Apparently I am beginning to have a problem with memory loss as I found a photo of NJI&I 4157 after stating that I had not seen a photo of the 4150-4249 group of cars. It has a small flag above the reporting marks.

Chet French
Dixon, IL

Thanks, Chet and Ed. Your answers solve a number of small mysteries that had been bothering me, and confirm what I had come to conclude shortly after my posting, that this was a nonuniform series. It both explains why some of this series were 8-panel cars and made clear what should have occurred to me before-- for a model of the 8-panel car I am going to have to find an appropriate underframe, which won't be the AAR standard.

One more question that perhaps someone familiar with Mark Vaughan's decals can help with (I can find the decals listed at DesPlaines Hobbies' site, but can find no detailed description or illustrations anywhere online). Which Vaughan decal set number(s) have the large Wabash flag and 9-inch car numbers, as per NJII 4254 in the Sands photo?

Best,

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

Chris, sets E-2 and E-3 each have the flag etc that you want.
Each set has NJI&I reporting marks for only one car, as does
the E-1 set.

Tim O'Connor

Thank you, Tim.

--Chris Frissell
Polson, MT