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DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin)
Dave Nelson
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or
locally produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record
of the Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or
locally produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record
of the Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the
DT&I, once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed
(i.e. basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO)
hopper, it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio
were no better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the
roll of the dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on
another occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the
DT&I, once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed
(i.e. basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO)
hopper, it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio
were no better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the
roll of the dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on
another occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Here's another one. During the post-WW2 period, the U.S. government and
critical industries, were importing, and sometimes stockpiling vital minerals
and metals only found in economically viable quantities outside the U.S.
Many entered the U.S. through east coast ports, particularly Chromium (40% of
US needs from Turkey, 38% from South Africa; 79% of all US needs from
abroad), Cobalt (77% imported, much from the Congo), Columbium (most from
Nigeria and Belgian Congo), Manganese (majority from India, South Africa,
Gold Coast, Cuba, Belgian Congo and Brazil), some Tungsten (that coming from
Spain, Portugal and Brazil). All of this entering from eastern US ports
would have most likely been loaded into eastern road hoppers, for shipment
elsewhere.
Since shipment of these commodities was done on the railroads, some research
into what industries are served by your railroad might come up with some
interesting answers.
BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR.
Hmmm.
Elden Gatwood
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
critical industries, were importing, and sometimes stockpiling vital minerals
and metals only found in economically viable quantities outside the U.S.
Many entered the U.S. through east coast ports, particularly Chromium (40% of
US needs from Turkey, 38% from South Africa; 79% of all US needs from
abroad), Cobalt (77% imported, much from the Congo), Columbium (most from
Nigeria and Belgian Congo), Manganese (majority from India, South Africa,
Gold Coast, Cuba, Belgian Congo and Brazil), some Tungsten (that coming from
Spain, Portugal and Brazil). All of this entering from eastern US ports
would have most likely been loaded into eastern road hoppers, for shipment
elsewhere.
Since shipment of these commodities was done on the railroads, some research
into what industries are served by your railroad might come up with some
interesting answers.
BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR.
Hmmm.
Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Dave
Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally
produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the
Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I,
once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e.
basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper,
it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no
better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the roll of the
dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another
occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Dave
Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally
produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the
Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I,
once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e.
basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper,
it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no
better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the roll of the
dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another
occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
Richard Townsend
Back in the early 1960s I lived on the New Cumberland Army Depot, which is across the Susquehanna River from and a little south of Harrisburg. It is immediately adjacent to the PRR's four-track main line along the west shore of the river. There were scattered small stockpiles of exotic ores on the base (when I say small I mean about single carload size). They were labeled with what they were and where they came from. The one I remember was chromium ore from the USSR. The stockpiles were pretty exciting for this childhood rock collector with their exotic contents and sources.
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 10:01 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin)
Here's another one. During the post-WW2 period, the U.S. government and
critical industries, were importing, and sometimes stockpiling vital minerals
and metals only found in economically viable quantities outside the U.S.
Many entered the U.S. through east coast ports, particularly Chromium (40% of
US needs from Turkey, 38% from South Africa; 79% of all US needs from
abroad), Cobalt (77% imported, much from the Congo), Columbium (most from
Nigeria and Belgian Congo), Manganese (majority from India, South Africa,
Gold Coast, Cuba, Belgian Congo and Brazil), some Tungsten (that coming from
Spain, Portugal and Brazil). All of this entering from eastern US ports
would have most likely been loaded into eastern road hoppers, for shipment
elsewhere.
Since shipment of these commodities was done on the railroads, some research
into what industries are served by your railroad might come up with some
interesting answers.
BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR.
Hmmm.
Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Dave
Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally
produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the
Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I,
once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e.
basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper,
it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no
better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the roll of the
dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another
occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 10:01 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin)
Here's another one. During the post-WW2 period, the U.S. government and
critical industries, were importing, and sometimes stockpiling vital minerals
and metals only found in economically viable quantities outside the U.S.
Many entered the U.S. through east coast ports, particularly Chromium (40% of
US needs from Turkey, 38% from South Africa; 79% of all US needs from
abroad), Cobalt (77% imported, much from the Congo), Columbium (most from
Nigeria and Belgian Congo), Manganese (majority from India, South Africa,
Gold Coast, Cuba, Belgian Congo and Brazil), some Tungsten (that coming from
Spain, Portugal and Brazil). All of this entering from eastern US ports
would have most likely been loaded into eastern road hoppers, for shipment
elsewhere.
Since shipment of these commodities was done on the railroads, some research
into what industries are served by your railroad might come up with some
interesting answers.
BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR.
Hmmm.
Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Dave
Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally
produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the
Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I,
once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e.
basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper,
it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no
better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the roll of the
dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another
occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Interesting! I have been told by ex-Army folks that this was a huge deal
during the Cold War. We were worried that the Soviets would blockade us and
we would not be able to get critical metals for aircraft production, amongst
others.
I have always wondered what special additives might have been used in nuclear
vessel/reactor construction, and what things might have been shipped around
the country for our military or specialty steel production, as it was a far
larger "industry" than most might expect, and most of us don't model it. And
it didn't just move around in "U.S. Army" box cars, as some might think.
Those strategic minerals went by regular RR car.
The stockpile facility near me was behind a cyclone fence, with a gate and
guard. It was up a branch in the woods hidden from view, but had only a
trailer office and small piles of different colored ores piled here and
there. Yes, the local USSteel and other steel-makers were nearby, and yes,
they did make "specialty" steels, so none of this should be surprising, but
all the same, I sure would like to know what was coming from where, and in
whose cars!
Elden Gatwood
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
during the Cold War. We were worried that the Soviets would blockade us and
we would not be able to get critical metals for aircraft production, amongst
others.
I have always wondered what special additives might have been used in nuclear
vessel/reactor construction, and what things might have been shipped around
the country for our military or specialty steel production, as it was a far
larger "industry" than most might expect, and most of us don't model it. And
it didn't just move around in "U.S. Army" box cars, as some might think.
Those strategic minerals went by regular RR car.
The stockpile facility near me was behind a cyclone fence, with a gate and
guard. It was up a branch in the woods hidden from view, but had only a
trailer office and small piles of different colored ores piled here and
there. Yes, the local USSteel and other steel-makers were nearby, and yes,
they did make "specialty" steels, so none of this should be surprising, but
all the same, I sure would like to know what was coming from where, and in
whose cars!
Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
richtownsend@...
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:24 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Back in the early 1960s I lived on the New Cumberland Army Depot, which is
across the Susquehanna River from and a little south of Harrisburg. It is
immediately adjacent to the PRR's four-track main line along the west shore
of the river. There were scattered small stockpiles of exotic ores on the
base (when I say small I mean about single carload size). They were labeled
with what they were and where they came from. The one I remember was chromium
ore from the USSR. The stockpiles were pretty exciting for this childhood
rock collector with their exotic contents and sources.
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 10:01 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Here's another one. During the post-WW2 period, the U.S. government and
critical industries, were importing, and sometimes stockpiling vital minerals
and metals only found in economically viable quantities outside the U.S.
Many entered the U.S. through east coast ports, particularly Chromium (40% of
US needs from Turkey, 38% from South Africa; 79% of all US needs from
abroad), Cobalt (77% imported, much from the Congo), Columbium (most from
Nigeria and Belgian Congo), Manganese (majority from India, South Africa,
Gold Coast, Cuba, Belgian Congo and Brazil), some Tungsten (that coming from
Spain, Portugal and Brazil). All of this entering from eastern US ports would
have most likely been loaded into eastern road hoppers, for shipment
elsewhere.
Since shipment of these commodities was done on the railroads, some research
into what industries are served by your railroad might come up with some
interesting answers.
BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR.
Hmmm.
Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Dave Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally
produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the
Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I,
once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e.
basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper,
it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no
better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the roll of the
dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another
occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
richtownsend@...
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:24 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Back in the early 1960s I lived on the New Cumberland Army Depot, which is
across the Susquehanna River from and a little south of Harrisburg. It is
immediately adjacent to the PRR's four-track main line along the west shore
of the river. There were scattered small stockpiles of exotic ores on the
base (when I say small I mean about single carload size). They were labeled
with what they were and where they came from. The one I remember was chromium
ore from the USSR. The stockpiles were pretty exciting for this childhood
rock collector with their exotic contents and sources.
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 10:01 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Here's another one. During the post-WW2 period, the U.S. government and
critical industries, were importing, and sometimes stockpiling vital minerals
and metals only found in economically viable quantities outside the U.S.
Many entered the U.S. through east coast ports, particularly Chromium (40% of
US needs from Turkey, 38% from South Africa; 79% of all US needs from
abroad), Cobalt (77% imported, much from the Congo), Columbium (most from
Nigeria and Belgian Congo), Manganese (majority from India, South Africa,
Gold Coast, Cuba, Belgian Congo and Brazil), some Tungsten (that coming from
Spain, Portugal and Brazil). All of this entering from eastern US ports would
have most likely been loaded into eastern road hoppers, for shipment
elsewhere.
Since shipment of these commodities was done on the railroads, some research
into what industries are served by your railroad might come up with some
interesting answers.
BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR.
Hmmm.
Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Dave Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally
produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the
Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I,
once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e.
basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper,
it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no
better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the roll of the
dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another
occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SUVCWORR@...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin)
<snip>
BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR.
Hmmm.
Elden,
Is that the one on the Peter's Creek Branch or have you found another?
Rich Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Dave
Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally
produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the
Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I,
once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e.
basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper,
it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no
better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the roll of the
dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another
occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin)
<snip>
BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR.
Hmmm.
Elden,
Is that the one on the Peter's Creek Branch or have you found another?
Rich Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Dave
Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally
produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the
Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I,
once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e.
basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper,
it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no
better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the roll of the
dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another
occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
------------------------------------
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Rich;
Peters Creek is the one I am thinking of, and I also wonder if there was any
link to the Westinghouse site and/or USSteel.
Elden
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Show quoted text
Peters Creek is the one I am thinking of, and I also wonder if there was any
link to the Westinghouse site and/or USSteel.
Elden
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
SUVCWORR@...
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
<snip>
BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR.
Hmmm.
Elden,
Is that the one on the Peter's Creek Branch or have you found another?
Rich Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Dave Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally
produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the
Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I,
once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e.
basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper,
it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no
better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the roll of the
dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another
occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
SUVCWORR@...
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
<snip>
BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR.
Hmmm.
Elden,
Is that the one on the Peter's Creek Branch or have you found another?
Rich Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Dave Nelson
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset
Twin)
Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different
name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar
mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP
papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for
this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally
produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the
Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't.
With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in
Tim's message makes perfect sense to me.
Dave Nelson
-----Original Message-----
Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial
use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production).
Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY
railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for
ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I,
once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e.
basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available).
Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper,
it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no
better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California... So the roll of the
dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another
occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...)
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links