Date
1 - 5 of 5
Strategic Reserves
|
Jason C
The Casad Depot alongside the former Nickle Plate just outside of New Haven, IN had some fairly large piles of different ores or minerals when I moved to the area in 1997. I believe it's only been in the past 3-6 years that they disposed of whatever was stockpiled there. If this link works, you will see a number of piles of something on the east edge of the facility. That tan Butler building and assortment of rusty looking equipment at the top edge of the view is the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society. The folks that own the 765.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qvchj77xny2g&scene=13499039&lvl=1&sty=b For those of you interested, this Depot was served by both the Nickle Plate and the Wabash which passed just north of this facility. The Wabash had a spur that came south along South Ryan Rd which is to the west of Casad. By scrolling to the west and then north, you can see the remains of the roadbed and the outline of the connector track in the trees where it tied into the Wabash. This place would make for a HUGE switching layout back in it's prime. Jason Cook New Haven, IN --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) To: STMFC@... Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 1:49 PM Interesting! I have been told by ex-Army folks that this was a huge deal during the Cold War. We were worried that the Soviets would blockade us and we would not be able to get critical metals for aircraft production, amongst others. I have always wondered what special additives might have been used in nuclear vessel/reactor construction, and what things might have been shipped around the country for our military or specialty steel production, as it was a far larger "industry" than most might expect, and most of us don't model it. And it didn't just move around in "U.S. Army" box cars, as some might think. Those strategic minerals went by regular RR car. The stockpile facility near me was behind a cyclone fence, with a gate and guard. It was up a branch in the woods hidden from view, but had only a trailer office and small piles of different colored ores piled here and there. Yes, the local USSteel and other steel-makers were nearby, and yes, they did make "specialty" steels, so none of this should be surprising, but all the same, I sure would like to know what was coming from where, and in whose cars! Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of richtownsend@ netscape. net Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:24 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) Back in the early 1960s I lived on the New Cumberland Army Depot, which is across the Susquehanna River from and a little south of Harrisburg. It is immediately adjacent to the PRR's four-track main line along the west shore of the river. There were scattered small stockpiles of exotic ores on the base (when I say small I mean about single carload size). They were labeled with what they were and where they came from. The one I remember was chromium ore from the USSR. The stockpiles were pretty exciting for this childhood rock collector with their exotic contents and sources. Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil <mailto:elden. j.gatwood% 40usace.army. mil> > To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 10:01 am Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) Here's another one. During the post-WW2 period, the U.S. government and critical industries, were importing, and sometimes stockpiling vital minerals and metals only found in economically viable quantities outside the U.S. Many entered the U.S. through east coast ports, particularly Chromium (40% of US needs from Turkey, 38% from South Africa; 79% of all US needs from abroad), Cobalt (77% imported, much from the Congo), Columbium (most from Nigeria and Belgian Congo), Manganese (majority from India, South Africa, Gold Coast, Cuba, Belgian Congo and Brazil), some Tungsten (that coming from Spain, Portugal and Brazil). All of this entering from eastern US ports would have most likely been loaded into eastern road hoppers, for shipment elsewhere. Since shipment of these commodities was done on the railroads, some research into what industries are served by your railroad might come up with some interesting answers. BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR. Hmmm. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dave Nelson Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't. With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in Tim's message makes perfect sense to me. Dave Nelson -----Original Message----- Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production). Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I, once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e. basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available). Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper, it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California.. . So the roll of the dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...) |
|
|
|
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
There is another interesting twist to all this, and that is the role of
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
railroads vis-a-vis stockpiling. Since large amounts of raw materials moved by ship and river barge during warmer months, and industry was dependent on large supplies of coal etc for them to run 24/7 operations of those industries, the railroads had their own version of the "grain rush", after the lakes and rivers froze over. Hopper cars would be called out of mothballs and old cars repaired, so there would be enough of them in service to take over movement of needed minerals during the winter. This seasonal use of hoppers was enough to cause large mineral-hauling roads conniptions each fall, as they rushed to supply the winter "mineral rush". Power plants and steel making facilities were especially worried about shortages, and so stockpiling began around the end of summer and continued until they had enough raw materials on hand to survive any shortage. Some of those "piles" were huge, like the ore piles in east Philly, or the coal and coke piles at Clairton, PA. Strings of hoppers nearby were always evident. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Jason C Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:26 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] RE: Strategic Reserves The Casad Depot alongside the former Nickle Plate just outside of New Haven, IN had some fairly large piles of different ores or minerals when I moved to the area in 1997. I believe it's only been in the past 3-6 years that they disposed of whatever was stockpiled there. If this link works, you will see a number of piles of something on the east edge of the facility. That tan Butler building and assortment of rusty looking equipment at the top edge of the view is the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society. The folks that own the 765. http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qvchj77xny2g&scene=13499039&lvl=1&sty=b <http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qvchj77xny2g&scene=13499039&lvl=1&sty=b> For those of you interested, this Depot was served by both the Nickle Plate and the Wabash which passed just north of this facility. The Wabash had a spur that came south along South Ryan Rd which is to the west of Casad. By scrolling to the west and then north, you can see the remains of the roadbed and the outline of the connector track in the trees where it tied into the Wabash. This place would make for a HUGE switching layout back in it's prime. Jason Cook New Haven, IN --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@... <mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> > wrote: From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@... <mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> > Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 1:49 PM Interesting! I have been told by ex-Army folks that this was a huge deal during the Cold War. We were worried that the Soviets would blockade us and we would not be able to get critical metals for aircraft production, amongst others. I have always wondered what special additives might have been used in nuclear vessel/reactor construction, and what things might have been shipped around the country for our military or specialty steel production, as it was a far larger "industry" than most might expect, and most of us don't model it. And it didn't just move around in "U.S. Army" box cars, as some might think. Those strategic minerals went by regular RR car. The stockpile facility near me was behind a cyclone fence, with a gate and guard. It was up a branch in the woods hidden from view, but had only a trailer office and small piles of different colored ores piled here and there. Yes, the local USSteel and other steel-makers were nearby, and yes, they did make "specialty" steels, so none of this should be surprising, but all the same, I sure would like to know what was coming from where, and in whose cars! Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of richtownsend@ netscape. net Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:24 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) Back in the early 1960s I lived on the New Cumberland Army Depot, which is across the Susquehanna River from and a little south of Harrisburg. It is immediately adjacent to the PRR's four-track main line along the west shore of the river. There were scattered small stockpiles of exotic ores on the base (when I say small I mean about single carload size). They were labeled with what they were and where they came from. The one I remember was chromium ore from the USSR. The stockpiles were pretty exciting for this childhood rock collector with their exotic contents and sources. Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil <mailto:elden. j.gatwood% 40usace.army. mil> > To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 10:01 am Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) Here's another one. During the post-WW2 period, the U.S. government and critical industries, were importing, and sometimes stockpiling vital minerals and metals only found in economically viable quantities outside the U.S. Many entered the U.S. through east coast ports, particularly Chromium (40% of US needs from Turkey, 38% from South Africa; 79% of all US needs from abroad), Cobalt (77% imported, much from the Congo), Columbium (most from Nigeria and Belgian Congo), Manganese (majority from India, South Africa, Gold Coast, Cuba, Belgian Congo and Brazil), some Tungsten (that coming from Spain, Portugal and Brazil). All of this entering from eastern US ports would have most likely been loaded into eastern road hoppers, for shipment elsewhere. Since shipment of these commodities was done on the railroads, some research into what industries are served by your railroad might come up with some interesting answers. BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR. Hmmm. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dave Nelson Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't. With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in Tim's message makes perfect sense to me. Dave Nelson -----Original Message----- Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production). Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I, once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e. basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available). Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper, it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California.. . So the roll of the dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
|
|
|
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Jason Cook wrote:
The Casad Depot alongside the former Nickle Plate . . .Interesting link, Jason, thank you. Tiny nit: it's the NICKEL Plate, just like the metal--in fact, named for the metal. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
|
|
|
Here is another one, near the huge NYC classification yard at
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Selkirk. This facility was served by both D&H and NYC. Now it's just an 'industrial park' but I saw stockpiles of ingot material there in the 1990's. http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=42.68532898339442~-73.94182568885441&lvl=14&sty=r&where1=Selkirk%2C%20NY Tim O'Connor At 11/19/2009 03:25 PM Thursday, you wrote:
The Casad Depot alongside the former Nickle Plate just outside of New Haven, IN had some fairly large piles of different ores or minerals when I moved to the area in 1997.� I believe it's only been in the past 3-6 years that they disposed of whatever was stockpiled there.� If this link works, you will see a number of piles of something on the east edge of the facility.� That tan Butler building and assortment of rusty looking equipment at the top edge of the view is the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society.� The folks that own the 765. |
|
|
|
Jason C
Tim,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The Casad Depot outside of New Haven is slowly turning into an industrial park. I believe the entire property will be turned over to the city or county within the next few years. Jason Cook New Haven, IN --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> Subject: [STMFC] RE: Strategic Reserves To: STMFC@... Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:14 PM Here is another one, near the huge NYC classification yard at Selkirk. This facility was served by both D&H and NYC. Now it's just an 'industrial park' but I saw stockpiles of ingot material there in the 1990's. http://www.bing. com/maps/ ?v=2&cp=42. 68532898339442~ -73.941825688854 41&lvl=14& sty=r&where1= Selkirk%2C% 20NY Tim O'Connor At 11/19/2009 03:25 PM Thursday, you wrote: The Casad Depot alongside the former Nickle Plate just outside of New Haven, IN had some fairly large piles of different ores or minerals when I moved to the area in 1997. I believe it's only been in the past 3-6 years that they disposed of whatever was stockpiled there. If this link works, you will see a number of piles of something on the east edge of the facility. That tan Butler building and assortment of rusty looking equipment at the top edge of the view is the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society. The folks that own the 765.  http://www.bing. com/maps/ ?v=2&cp=qvchj77x ny2g&scene= 13499039& lvl=1&sty= b  For those of you interested, this Depot was served by both the Nickle Plate and the Wabash which passed just north of this facility. The Wabash had a spur that came south along South Ryan Rd which is to the west of Casad. By scrolling to the west and then north, you can see the remains of the roadbed and the outline of the connector track in the trees where it tied into the Wabash. This place would make for a HUGE switching layout back in it's prime.  Jason Cook New Haven, IN --- On Thu, 11/19/09, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil> wrote: From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 1:49 PM  Interesting! I have been told by ex-Army folks that this was a huge deal during the Cold War. We were worried that the Soviets would blockade us and we would not be able to get critical metals for aircraft production, amongst others. I have always wondered what special additives might have been used in nuclear vessel/reactor construction, and what things might have been shipped around the country for our military or specialty steel production, as it was a far larger "industry" than most might expect, and most of us don't model it. And it didn't just move around in "U.S. Army" box cars, as some might think. Those strategic minerals went by regular RR car. The stockpile facility near me was behind a cyclone fence, with a gate and guard. It was up a branch in the woods hidden from view, but had only a trailer office and small piles of different colored ores piled here and there. Yes, the local USSteel and other steel-makers were nearby, and yes, they did make "specialty" steels, so none of this should be surprising, but all the same, I sure would like to know what was coming from where, and in whose cars! Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of richtownsend@ netscape. net Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:24 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) Back in the early 1960s I lived on the New Cumberland Army Depot, which is across the Susquehanna River from and a little south of Harrisburg. It is immediately adjacent to the PRR's four-track main line along the west shore of the river. There were scattered small stockpiles of exotic ores on the base (when I say small I mean about single carload size). They were labeled with what they were and where they came from. The one I remember was chromium ore from the USSR. The stockpiles were pretty exciting for this childhood rock collector with their exotic contents and sources. Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil <mailto:elden. j.gatwood% 40usace.army. mil> > To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 10:01 am Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) Here's another one. During the post-WW2 period, the U.S. government and critical industries, were importing, and sometimes stockpiling vital minerals and metals only found in economically viable quantities outside the U.S. Many entered the U.S. through east coast ports, particularly Chromium (40% of US needs from Turkey, 38% from South Africa; 79% of all US needs from abroad), Cobalt (77% imported, much from the Congo), Columbium (most from Nigeria and Belgian Congo), Manganese (majority from India, South Africa, Gold Coast, Cuba, Belgian Congo and Brazil), some Tungsten (that coming from Spain, Portugal and Brazil). All of this entering from eastern US ports would have most likely been loaded into eastern road hoppers, for shipment elsewhere. Since shipment of these commodities was done on the railroads, some research into what industries are served by your railroad might come up with some interesting answers. BTW, I found a strategic stockpile facility served on my section of the PRR. Hmmm. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:STMFC@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On Behalf Of Dave Nelson Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:44 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DT&I hopper in Tracy CA (was Re: Accurail Offset Twin) Another possibility is with the Holly sugar mill (perhaps under a different name in 1947) in Tracy -- or any of the several nearby sugar mills. Sugar mills use coke for purification purposes and I've seen evidence in the WP papers in Sacramento that coke was brought from as far away as Alabama for this purpose. No idea why Utah Coke, Colorado Coke, Arkansas Coke, or locally produced Petroleum Coke was not used... but hey, there's that record of the Alabama Coke that shows that sometimes at least, it wasn't. With that in mind, scratch out coal and plug in coke and everything else in Tim's message makes perfect sense to me. Dave Nelson -----Original Message----- Simple: Coal sometimes travels long distances for some particular industrial use (IOW not so much for heating or steam production). Since DT&I served Michigan & Ohio (AAR District #15) a DT&I car on ANY railroad in MI, OH or IN (which comprise District #15) could be loaded for ANY destination in North America without regard to its ownership by the DT&I, once the rules about loading a car off its home road were observed (i.e. basically no more suitable equivalent car was immediately available). Since the most suitable car in this case would have been an SP (T&NO) hopper, it's reasonable to think that the chances of an SP hopper in Ohio were no better than the chances of a DT&I hopper in California.. . So the roll of the dice gave us the DT&I hopper in Tracy on this occasion. (And on another occasion someone photographed T&NO #4406 on the Nickel Plate...) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
|
|