NYC freight car lettering


tmolsen@...
 

List,

Can anyone advise as to when the New York Central went to the Gothic lettering for freight equipment? My time period and area of choice is PRR Middle Division Harrisburg/Enola to Altoona in late 1953.

It is a relevant question in as how for every PRR car on the property, there were a like number of NYC cars at the same time due to the numerous points on interchange (much to the dismay of the great unwashed number of SPF's).

Best regards,
Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Brian Carlson
 

Tom:

Are you referring to Gothic in the herald? That happened in august 1955
according to Terry Link's site.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
tmolsen@UDel.Edu
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:17 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] NYC freight car lettering





List,

Can anyone advise as to when the New York Central went to the Gothic
lettering for freight equipment? My time period and area of choice is PRR
Middle Division Harrisburg/Enola to Altoona in late 1953.

It is a relevant question in as how for every PRR car on the property, there
were a like number of NYC cars at the same time due to the numerous points
on interchange (much to the dismay of the great unwashed number of SPF's).


al_brown03
 

Very helpful reference. NYC also changed from Roman to Gothic for reporting marks and the rest of the lettering, though; Mr. Link's site doesn't address the date of that (at least in the places I looked).

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <prrk41361@...> wrote:

Tom:

Are you referring to Gothic in the herald? That happened in august 1955
according to Terry Link's site.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
tmolsen@...
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:17 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] NYC freight car lettering





List,

Can anyone advise as to when the New York Central went to the Gothic
lettering for freight equipment? My time period and area of choice is PRR
Middle Division Harrisburg/Enola to Altoona in late 1953.

It is a relevant question in as how for every PRR car on the property, there
were a like number of NYC cars at the same time due to the numerous points
on interchange (much to the dismay of the great unwashed number of SPF's).







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Brian Carlson
 

Al: I wasn't sure of the date the reporting marks changed so I didn't want
to assume anything. Hopefully someone on here knows for sure.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
al_brown03
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:14 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NYC freight car lettering





Very helpful reference. NYC also changed from Roman to Gothic for reporting
marks and the rest of the lettering, though; Mr. Link's site doesn't address
the date of that (at least in the places I looked).

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 23, 2009, at 6:21 AM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Al: I wasn't sure of the date the reporting marks changed so I
didn't want
to assume anything. Hopefully someone on here knows for sure.
Brian, the earliest photos I have of NYC cars with the extended
Gothic stenciling show two box cars with reweigh/repaint dates of BG
(Beech Grove) 6-55. They were taken by Will Whittaker on the West
Coast and George Sisk in Kansas City, and it's a good guess that what
prompted both photos of otherwise very ordinary NYC cars was that it
was the first time the photographers had seen the new lettering style.

Richard Hendrickson


Tim O'Connor
 

Indeed, in 1954 new NYC cars were being delivered with the
Roman style lettering and by 1955 many new cars and repaints
were getting the extended Gothic lettering. It's interesting
that NYC continued to use lines above and below the reporting
marks until around 1960 even though most railroads discontinued
that practice years earlier.

There are many good NYC box car photos from the 1950's to early
1960's in Bob Liljestrand's (Bob's Photo) softcover book illustrating
the various paint & lettering schemes (and the dates).

Tim O'Connor

Brian, the earliest photos I have of NYC cars with the extended
Gothic stenciling show two box cars with reweigh/repaint dates of BG
(Beech Grove) 6-55. They were taken by Will Whittaker on the West
Coast and George Sisk in Kansas City, and it's a good guess that what
prompted both photos of otherwise very ordinary NYC cars was that it
was the first time the photographers had seen the new lettering style.

Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
It's interesting that NYC continued to use lines above and below the reporting marks until around 1960 even though most railroads discontinued that practice years earlier.
The lines were never a requirement but were a recommended practice, starting back in the WW I era. The AAR discontinued that recommendation very early in 1952 and many roads soon dropped the lines from their lettering diagrams.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


tmolsen@...
 

Hi Brian and Al,

Thanks guys for the replies. I have emailed Terry to see if he knows and if he does come up with the data I will post it so that all can share. Martin has just put out that NYC 1-1/2 door tall box car, but is very vague about when the NYC went to the Gothic Lettering for reporting marks and dimensional data. Until I find out when, I will be sticking with the kits with the Roman Lettering.

The NYC is the most unrepresented railroad on Pennsy layouts due to the antipathy of the great number of unwashed SPF's whom I do not wish to associate with.

I spent 14 years on System operations as a Supervisor and then Manager of System Passenger Operations on PC and CR and I worked with a great number of people on both sides of the railroad. All of the people I worked with at all levels did their jobs in a most professional manner. Of course, there was the usual teasing that goes on in any organization, but nothing that could be construed as being serious. When most of the people found out that I was a serious modeler and historian type, they went out of their way to help me get the information that I was looking for. I learned a lot from people on both sides of the fence as one might say.

Best regards,
Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Bill Darnaby
 

Tom sez...

Thanks guys for the replies. I have emailed Terry to see if he knows and if he does come up with the data I will post it so that all can share. Martin has just put out that NYC 1-1/2 door tall box car, but is very vague about when the NYC went to the Gothic Lettering for reporting marks and dimensional data. Until I find out when, I will be sticking with the kits with the Roman Lettering.
The guy who made the masters for these cars told me that the version of this car available at Naperville is good only for the Gothic lettering as these cars were rebuilt starting in 1955. Therefore, the car I purchased (kit 93.4) will be in very new paint as I model late summer/early fall of 1955. The earlier rebuilds of these cars that would have had the Roman lettering have not been released yet.

Bill Darnaby


tmolsen@...
 

Bill,

Your post regarding the NYC Raised Side Boxcar kits that Martin brought out recently at Naperville stated:

The guy who made the masters for these cars told me that the
version of this car available at Naperville is good only for
the Gothic lettering as these cars were rebuilt starting in
1955. The earlier rebuilds of these cars that would have had
the Roman lettering have not been released yet
If this is so, how does this square with what the information Martin shows on the product sheet regarding the rebuilding dates, or does this only apply to the diagonal panel roof cars? Martin has confined the kits to the numbering series 194000-195498 series only. Has he mixed up the series between the Michigan Central period and that of the NYC period? If not, then what would the difference be between the kits put forth and that of the "unreleased earlier rebuilds"?

The January 1952 ORER (effective date 10-51) gives a description of the the 194000-195498 series that appears to match the descriptions in the product sheets with the exception of the type of doors and roof.

Regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Bruce Smith
 

The guy who made the masters for these cars told me that the
version of this car available at Naperville is good only for
the Gothic lettering as these cars were rebuilt starting in
1955. The earlier rebuilds of these cars that would have had
the Roman lettering have not been released yet
Kit 93.1 says "Panel Rf, Roman Decals". Are you saying that this is a
bogus model? It appears to match the photos for the Roman lettered car
in the PDS. Note that it is a rect panel roof, not diagonal so it
appears to model cars rebuilt prior to WWII.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Bill Darnaby
 

First, I am not an NYC expert and do not play one at prototype meets. I only know what I was
told by the guy who made the masters. During research for the project they could not find any photos of cars with Youngstown doors with Roman lettering and, therefore, the safe conclusion he reached is that the door replacement occured during the 1955 rebuilding by which time Gothic was standard. He was standing behind me as I purchased my kit at Naperville and advised me that the Gothic lettering was the only safe bet.

Sunshine went to the usual NYC sources for reference and found that the rebuilding data and lot numbers was even more convoluted and inconclusive than typical. If anyone has a photo of a Youngstown door car and Roman lettering please stand up and give us the car number and reweigh date.

FWIW, work is being done on masters for the increased height rebuilds with the original roofs and panel doors which will be certainly correct for Roman lettering.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: <tmolsen@UDel.Edu>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NYC freight car lettering


Bill,

Your post regarding the NYC Raised Side Boxcar kits that Martin brought
out recently at Naperville stated:

The guy who made the masters for these cars told me that the
version of this car available at Naperville is good only for
the Gothic lettering as these cars were rebuilt starting in
1955. The earlier rebuilds of these cars that would have had
the Roman lettering have not been released yet
If this is so, how does this square with what the information Martin shows
on the product sheet regarding the rebuilding dates, or does this only
apply to the diagonal panel roof cars? Martin has confined the kits to
the numbering series 194000-195498 series only. Has he mixed up the
series between the Michigan Central period and that of the NYC period? If
not, then what would the difference be between the kits put forth and that
of the "unreleased earlier rebuilds"?

The January 1952 ORER (effective date 10-51) gives a description of the
the 194000-195498 series that appears to match the descriptions in the
product sheets with the exception of the type of doors and roof.

Regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


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tmolsen@...
 

Bill,

Did your source give any idea when the earlier version of this car would be available? I would assume that he is doing them for Martin???

Best regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


Bill Darnaby
 

Sorry...he did not and I doubt that he ever would. After years of doing masters for Martin he has given up trying to predict product releases.

Bill Darnaby



From: <tmolsen@UDel.Edu>

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NYC freight car lettering

Bill,

Did your source give any idea when the earlier version of this car would be available? I would assume that he is doing them for Martin???

Best regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@udel.edu


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links