Topics

Wood Kits

rdgbuff56
 

Over the years I have accumulated quite a collection of wood freight car kits. My question is this: What is the best method for sealing the wood?

Kit instructions usually say to give the wood a coat of sanding sealer and than sand with steel wool. Repeat several times.

They do make a sanding seal thinner. Do you thin the sealer like paint? Can it be airbrushed?

Thanks!
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.

Marty McGuirk
 

Another option is to put the wood back in the box (or the circular file) and replace it with styrene. That way you don't have to seal and sand the parts - and the resulting model will look better.



Marty McGuirk


-----

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Francis A. Pehowic, Jr." <rdgbuff56@...> wrote:

Over the years I have accumulated quite a collection of wood freight car kits. My question is this: What is the best method for sealing the wood?

Depends if you want the wood to look like metal or wood and also the roughness of the wood.

I found that when I did many coats with steel wool inbetween that little pieces of the steel wool end up in the scribing.

The sanding sealer Scalecoat sells is OK but I used to use Ambroid cement diluted with MEK. I soaked strip wood in this mixture in a test tube.

Yes, it can be air brushed.

I uused fine grit sandpaper and would sandpaper before and after I applied the sealer solution, depending on the roughness of the wood.

You will find that when spraying the sealer will go into wood like water goes into a sponge in the beginning.

If you only coat one side of scribed wood you will find that it will curl up.

I had the side of a Q'Craft X23 box car curl up when I applied decal setting solution to an unsealed car. I've seen many built up, unsealed cars with gaps in the sides at shows.

I substituted styrene and brass shim stock for various wood parts.

Ed

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Marty McGuirk wrote:
Another option is to put the wood back in the box (or the circular file) and replace it with styrene. That way you don't have to seal and sand the parts - and the resulting model will look better.
Sound advice. Fondle those nice old wood parts--and discard.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Roger Robar
 

Before you discard those wood kits I suggest you save the plans, they are
worth saving if you ever get around to scratch-building the car out of
styrene. Be aware that some plans are not to scale but helpful non-the-less.

Roger Robar - Modeling the B&M in northern NH.

spsalso
 

Back in the olden days, I ended up using leftover Floquil paints as sanding sealer. It was, in a sense, free. I didn't thin it; I just brushed it on and sanded it off. With sandpaper. Actually, silicon carbide paper--ending up with 600 or 400 grit--I don't recall. Since the surfaces had color, I could easier see how things were going. When you can't see wood anymore, the surface is definitely sealed.

Then, in the less olden days, I did just what Marty and Tony suggested. On some of the kits, I used none of the parts, and so could resell them. On others, I used, for example, the ends and door parts from the kits and so re-selling was out.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

spsalso
 

I should also mention that I used Floquil paint over my Floquil "sanding sealer"--thus no compatibility issues.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Mark
 

Over thirty years ago a teenager drove to Loudonville (Ohio)to a hobby shop. Bought a Quality Craft kit, his friend purchased the bulkhead flatcar set and mine was the B&O Canstock car.
Now I realize this is out of the groups time period but that car still looks great. I have a few wood, several resin and styrene. All will get built someday.
The sanding sealer I bought years ago still exists!, the hardware store does not!

Just my cents worth :-)

Mark Morgan

--- On Tue, 12/15/09, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wood Kits
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 2:53 PM







 









Marty McGuirk wrote:

Another option is to put the wood back in the box (or the circular
file) and replace it with styrene. That way you don't have to seal
and sand the parts - and the resulting model will look better.


Sound advice. Fondle those nice old wood parts--and discard.



Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com

Publishers of books on railroad history

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Roger Robar wrote:
Before you discard those wood kits I suggest you save the plans, they are worth saving if you ever get around to scratch-building the car out of styrene. Be aware that some plans are not to scale but helpful non-the-less.
Good suggestion, Roger, and especially worthwhile for Silver Streak kits, MANY of which are around 10 per cent oversize. You can just take the plans to your local copy store, reduce 'em to 90 per cent, and then built it right--in styrene.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Guyz,
 
          The best idea expressed has been to keep the plans. I started a plan book 50 years ago. Best thing I ever did. I've been replacing out of scale wood models with styrene built models of the same plan. If you have never treid this, I highly recommend it.  It will advance your skills and bring a greater satisfaction than the original wood kit. Once you get the hang of it, it gets easy to transcribe the Evergreen part for the wooden one. Sure beats all the sanding and sealing to get it to look like a steel car! And yes, I have bought old wood kits just to get the plans so I can improve on them. just one model builder's thought for the day.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Tue, 12/15/09, Mark Morgan <bnonut@...> wrote:


From: Mark Morgan <bnonut@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wood Kits
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 4:12 PM


 



Over thirty years ago a teenager drove to Loudonville (Ohio)to a hobby shop. Bought a Quality Craft kit, his friend purchased the bulkhead flatcar set and mine was the B&O Canstock car.
Now I realize this is out of the groups time period but that car still looks great. I have a few wood, several resin and styrene. All will get built someday.
The sanding sealer I bought years ago still exists!, the hardware store does not!

Just my cents worth :-)

Mark Morgan

--- On Tue, 12/15/09, Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com> wrote:

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wood Kits
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 2:53 PM

 

Marty McGuirk wrote:

Another option is to put the wood back in the box (or the circular
file) and replace it with styrene. That way you don't have to seal
and sand the parts - and the resulting model will look better.
Sound advice. Fondle those nice old wood parts--and discard.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com

Publishers of books on railroad history










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Whew! I must live in a different world.

I have built wood kits for years and years, and nothing has been more personally satisfying to build and to finish, even if more challenging in some respects than current offerings; and I certainly would not subscribe in any way whatsoever to the regrettable theses that no worthwhile or even downright handsome and accurate models can result from efforts building them.

The sanding sealers that I have used successfully for decades have been those still commonly used in the R-C hobby. Testor's is just one brand, a large bottle of which just ran out after about ten years' use.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

The sanding sealer Scalecoat sells is OK but I used to use Ambroid cement diluted with MEK. I soaked strip wood in this mixture in a test tube.

Yes, it can be air brushed.

I uused fine grit sandpaper and would sandpaper before and after I applied the sealer solution, depending on the roughness of the wood.

You will find that when spraying the sealer will go into wood like water goes into a sponge in the beginning.

If you only coat one side of scribed wood you will find that it will curl up.

I had the side of a Q'Craft X23 box car curl up when I applied decal setting solution to an unsealed car. I've seen many built up, unsealed cars with gaps in the sides at shows.

I substituted styrene and brass shim stock for various wood parts.

Ed
Anytime a genuine wood, as opposed to say wood chip and resin, product is used for anything it is extremely important to seal ALL surfaces of it. The wood will not be stabilized unless this is done as the non-sealed side can still absorb moisture and expand, a more common occurrence than shrinking. Shrinking is more likely to occur when wood is not sealed and dries to a degree greater than when put in place for whatever it was being used. These factore are true whether constructing one of the older "craftsman" type kits, installing new clapboards on your home (in which case you will double their life by treating all surfaces rather than only those that are exposed to the weather, or building a fine piece of furniture. I saw good examples of what happens when wood is not sealed properly, and quarter-sawn material was not available, when working in a cabinet shop making instrument cases as a part-time job when in high school. Quarter-sawn wood was prefered as it is less likely to have such tendencies. When unavailable or too expensive for what was being undertaken, however, paying strict attention to sealing everything that could be sealed usually allowed the use of a lesser grade of wood.

Cordially, Don Valentine

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Don Valentine <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
Anytime a genuine wood, as opposed to say wood chip and resin, product is used for anything it is extremely important to seal ALL surfaces of it.
My original message was written months ago; I'm in permanent jail.

Yes, I agree it's better to seal all surfaces. What about silk screened car sides like the one included in the old Mainline kits? Any comments Denny?

Ed

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., Don Valentine <riverman_vt@> wrote:
Anytime a genuine wood, as opposed to say wood chip and resin,
product is used for anything it is extremely important to seal ALL
surfaces of it.
Yes, I agree it's better to seal all surfaces. What about silk screened car sides like the one included in the old Mainline kits? Any comments Denny?

Ed
I can't speak for Denny, Ed, but have three Mainline express reefer kits (I'll bet you can guess which ones, too! (-: ) that were built back in the late 1960's at the MIT club when I belonged to that
group. They are not used much these days and have been stored in a
number of locations since and seem to have had few problems when I last viewd them a couple of months ago.

Cordially, Don Valentine

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I could not agree more on the profound benefits of stability that the sealing of ALL free surfaces of wood or paper exposed to air -in or out- will bestow on any model. If you value your modeling, and modeling efforts, there is simply no reason not to do it .

I personally draw from an old bottle of Testor's Hot Fuel Proof Sanding Sealer (essentially talc in clear lacquer). This fills the grain nicely, dries instantly, and is very easily sanded smooth. These types of sanding sealers are still commonly available at R/C and other hobby stores. Paint alone if applied thick enough will also be a good filler, but too often, a single paint application will not adequately fill .

All wood and paper exposed to air WILL move with changes in moisture, and if one surface of either is sealed - relatively- with paint, or is restrained by being glued to another piece, then the other side will be the only part free to expand or contract, forcing the piece to bend (warp) one way or another. Some woods will behave worse than others in this regard, Pasteboard, and other cheap papers are the worst of all.

In my occasional other life of restoring ancient paper/wood HO freight and passenger cars, I run across this problem all the time. I use a number of methods to try to solve it, including heat, replacement, or reinforcement, with or without mechanical stiffening. I never put them back together, however, without first sealing every bit of paper or wood that will not be painted or supported- in or out.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento