Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser


pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

A couple of months ago I mentioned the possibility of using Avery label material to represent thin overlapping metal sheets. I'm far enough along with that to offer this "teaser" for my Prototype Rails clinic on Archer rivets:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Tk-G-5.jpg

The tank and dome cores were made by rapid prototyping. They were hand-finished and overlaid with layers of Avery transparent label stock with the surface detail pattern printed on. The tank shell required four layers to get all the overlaps. The transparency made aligning the layers fairly straightforward, and the printing made locating the Archer rivets equally straightforward. The tank hold-down fittings were made by rapid prototyping, everything else on the tank surface is Archer.

See you in Cocoa Beach, everyone have a happy holiday season!

Tom Madden


Brian Carlson
 

Tom: WOW!!!! Can you do this clinic again, I have to miss cocoa this year.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
pullmanboss
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 8:16 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser





A couple of months ago I mentioned the possibility of using Avery label
material to represent thin overlapping metal sheets. I'm far enough along
with that to offer this "teaser" for my Prototype Rails clinic on Archer
rivets:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Tk-G-5.jpg


Jack Burgess
 

Tom...

That is very impressive work and it is great to continually see new ways of
doing things. I'm sure that you will address this in your clinic but is the
final product durable enough to be used as a freight car on an operating
layout or is this intended as a master for a resin car?

Looking forward to your clinic...


pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Jack Burgess wrote:

That is very impressive work and it is great to continually see new ways of
doing things. I'm sure that you will address this in your clinic but is the
final product durable enough to be used as a freight car on an operating
layout or is this intended as a master for a resin car?
Yes, it is intended as a resin casting master. Even so, I was concerned about several durability and suitability issues. There's the Archer rivets themselves. Even though they end up under paint, they're still on a base of decal film and not a part of, or bonded firmly to, the substrate. As a resin casting master that's not an issue, but on an operating layout, I suppose a derailment or rough handling bad enough to damage the paint might flake them off. They're certainly touchier than decals while you're applying and setting them, but that's a matter of technique and being aware of where your fingers are on the model. I can tell you that once set and dry, even without paint on them, they are more durable than I expected. They even survived scrubbing with a soft toothbrush, my technique for getting rid of fugitive flakes of unadhered decal film. (Figured the standard decal post-application wipe with distilled water might not be a good idea for the Archer's.)

The Avery label stock concerned me for three reasons. First, will it adhere properly, with no wrinkles or bubbles, and stay put? Second, it's not waterproof. Can I seal it so it takes water slide decals and setting solution without absorbing any liquid? Third, will it be affected by immersion in liquid silicone rubber for several hours?

For numbers 2 and 3, the results have been good. I'm still working the first one, proper and permanent adhesion. There's no evidence of poor adhesion between layers, only between the shell and the first layer. It seems to be a matter of surface preparation of the car core. On my first attempt I had all sorts of misalignment between layers, wrinkles, you name it. The car core was also shiny and smooth. Bad idea - there's no way for trapped air to get out from under the label stock as you roll it on if the substrate surface is ultra-smooth. The forgiving thing about the label stock is, if you screw up, you can just peel it all off and start over. (Goo-Gone takes off the adhesive residue.) I've done six applications so far, and applied rivets to three of them. The one in the photo was the second one with rivets and I must admit there was some delamination in the lower quadrants. Not much, but you can see it if the light is just right. My technique keeps getting better, though, and the latest one looks very promising. I rough-sanded the shell and used plenty of patience getting the Avery material in place. I let it sit for three days before sealing it with gloss acrylic, then two more days after that. Everything stayed dead-smooth, no evidence of any delamination. I applied all the rivets yesterday, and poured the first mold half last night. Just poured the second half before I started writing this post, and tomorrow (Wednesday) night we'll see if it's still good.

Tom Madden


Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

That's an excellent looking tank!

What is the Avery label material - is it plastic or sticky paper?
Does it come in a big sheet or narrow strips? I won't be at Cocoa
so I'm going to miss your clinic...

Tim O'Connor

At 12/21/2009 08:15 PM Monday, you wrote:
A couple of months ago I mentioned the possibility of using Avery label material to represent thin overlapping metal sheets. I'm far enough along with that to offer this "teaser" for my Prototype Rails clinic on Archer rivets:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Tk-G-5.jpg

The tank and dome cores were made by rapid prototyping. They were hand-finished and overlaid with layers of Avery transparent label stock with the surface detail pattern printed on. The tank shell required four layers to get all the overlaps. The transparency made aligning the layers fairly straightforward, and the printing made locating the Archer rivets equally straightforward. The tank hold-down fittings were made by rapid prototyping, everything else on the tank surface is Archer.

See you in Cocoa Beach, everyone have a happy holiday season!

Tom Madden


pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

What is the Avery label material - is it plastic or sticky paper?
Does it come in a big sheet or narrow strips?
Avery #8665 (25 sheet pack) or #18665 (10 sheet pack), "Clear Full Sheet [8 1/2 x 11] Label". Runs about a buck a sheet. Got mine at the local Staples. It's not waterproof so I don't know if it's paper or plastic - see my post of last night on how I treat it. I needed transparency for aligning the four layers of overlays, but if I'd started with something simpler (and more sensible!) like a boxcar or gondola side, I'd have used conventional label stock.

I won't be at Cocoa
so I'm going to miss your clinic...
Oh no!! How will we keep the bozosity level down without you!

Tom Madden


Richard Townsend
 

By not issuing "Friends of the Freight Car" vests?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: pullmanboss <tgmadden@worldnet.att.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 11:53 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser





Tim O'Connor wrote:

What is the Avery label material - is it plastic or sticky paper?
Does it come in a big sheet or narrow strips?
Avery #8665 (25 sheet pack) or #18665 (10 sheet pack), "Clear Full Sheet [8 1/2 x 11] Label". Runs about a buck a sheet. Got mine at the local Staples. It's not waterproof so I don't know if it's paper or plastic - see my post of last night on how I treat it. I needed transparency for aligning the four layers of overlays, but if I'd started with something simpler (and more sensible!) like a boxcar or gondola side, I'd have used conventional label stock.

I won't be at Cocoa
so I'm going to miss your clinic...
Oh no!! How will we keep the bozosity level down without you!

Tom Madden







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Townsendt wrote:
By not issuing "Friends of the Freight Car" vests?
Vests!?! Why didn't I think of that?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Because you have a "vested" interest in these, Tony?

Bill Daniels

Tucson, AZ

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote:

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 2:00 PM







 









Richard Townsendt wrote:

By not issuing "Friends of the Freight Car" vests?


Vests!?! Why didn't I think of that?



Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com

Publishers of books on railroad history

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

Interesting... I have used the Brother label maker material which
is a thin plastic film (3/8" and 1/2" widths) that comes in clear,
white and other colors (but not black obviously). It is waterproof
and Floquil proof. But it's also very elastic. Is the Avery stuff
inelastic?

Me, a damper on bozosity? I am deeply offended! I'm proud of my
bozo heritage, and I have the foobie models to prove it! :-D

Tim

What is the Avery label material - is it plastic or sticky paper?
Does it come in a big sheet or narrow strips?
Avery #8665 (25 sheet pack) or #18665 (10 sheet pack), "Clear Full Sheet [8 1/2 x 11] Label". Runs about a buck a sheet. Got mine at the local Staples. It's not waterproof so I don't know if it's paper or plastic - see my post of last night on how I treat it. I needed transparency for aligning the four layers of overlays, but if I'd started with something simpler (and more sensible!) like a boxcar or gondola side, I'd have used conventional label stock.

I won't be at Cocoa
so I'm going to miss your clinic...
Oh no!! How will we keep the bozosity level down without you!

Tom Madden


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill Daniels wrote:
Because you have a "vested" interest in these, Tony?
Not sure what you mean, Bill, but in general, vests at Cocoa Beach would probably be quite a sight. As for FOTFC, not too many of us are vesties. Last time I checked.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Interesting... I have used the Brother label maker material which
is a thin plastic film (3/8" and 1/2" widths) that comes in clear,
white and other colors (but not black obviously). It is waterproof
and Floquil proof. But it's also very elastic. Is the Avery stuff
inelastic?
Seems to be. At least it hasn't distorted in any of my six laminating sessions. I work from the top of the tank down and roll the layers on with my fingertips rather than pulling from the free edge. Even so, on some of them I had to peel a piece back to straighten out a pending wrinkle, or release an air bubble, so there was certainly the opportunity for stretching. Was there layer to layer misalignment? In some cases, sure - but it was uniform. And I get better with each attempt.

Refering to my post of last night, I just opened the mold and my latest riveted tank shell pattern (Santa Fe Tk-J) was unaffected. No evidence of delamination or other defects from immersion in the silicone rubber. Holding the shell at an angle and reflecting light along the length gives a perfect straightline reflection over a full rotation of the part. Practice makes perfect, I suppose, but it means I'll be redoing that Tk-G tank body which looks so spectacular in the photo. A patternmaker's mindset may result in better models, but it sure plays hob with quantity!

Me, a damper on bozosity? I am deeply offended! I'm proud of my
bozo heritage, and I have the foobie models to prove it! :-D
In that case, your absence might be damper enough.

Tom Madden


Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

I know that, Tony... hence my "vested" comment.

Have a Merry Christmas.

Bill Daniels

Tucson, AZ

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote:

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 3:18 PM







 









Bill Daniels wrote:

Because you have a "vested" interest in these, Tony?


Not sure what you mean, Bill, but in general, vests at Cocoa

Beach would probably be quite a sight. As for FOTFC, not too many of

us are vesties. Last time I checked.



Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com

Publishers of books on railroad history