Coal in the Northwest


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 24, 2009, at 8:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ahem, Richard. Fact checking is in order. Coal was burned in
locomotives in Washington state, on the NP for example. Coal
was used in the production of cement and no doubt for other
purposes as well. And sources included western Canada as well
as Utah, Colorado, Montana, Wyoming and North Dakota.
Ahem, Tim. I have checked the statements in my e-mail.

I wrote:

In the steam era, most of the relatively little coal used in the
Northwest came from southern Utah.
Fact. Take a look, e.g., at the large number of D&RGW and UCR gons
on the Bieber interchange list. Sure, some coal came from other
sources as well. I did not say otherwise.
I wrote:

Nowhere in Oregon was coal mined in commercial quantities.
Fact. There was not a single coal mine in Oregon producing enough
coal to fill even one hopper car.
I wrote:

That's why all the steam locomotives burned oil, and why most
industries were fueled by oil or natural gas.
Fact. I grant that NP steam locos burned lignite (flammable dirt
that only barely qualifies as coal) in extreme eastern Washington.
However, on all of the railroads that served Seattle, Portland,
Vancouver, the Columbia River, and most of the rest of the area,
steam power burned oil.
Note that I my reference was to the Northwest. The Pacific Northwest
consists of Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia. Period. Utah,
Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming are in the Mountain West, not the
Pacific Northwest, as understood by everyone who lives out here. As
for North Dakota, it's separated from eastern Oregon and Washington
by 500 miles of Rocky Mountains and Great Plains, and by many more
miles than that from the major population centers in the Pacific
Northwest. You seem to be afflicted with the kind of geographical
confusion about the Western U.S. that is endemic among those who live
east of the Mississippi (and even more so among those who live east
of the Hudson).

Richard Hendrickson


Jim Hayes
 

I lived in Minnesota from the mid-50s to the early 70's, More than one local
TV news program proclaimed proudly "Here in the Great Northwest". Maybe
that's what confused Tim. False advertising by the TV stations.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon (herein the real Great Northwest)
www.sunshinemodels.com

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Richard Hendrickson <
rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:



On Dec 24, 2009, at 8:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ahem, Richard. Fact checking is in order. Coal was burned in
locomotives in Washington state, on the NP for example. Coal
was used in the production of cement and no doubt for other
purposes as well. And sources included western Canada as well
as Utah, Colorado, Montana, Wyoming and North Dakota.
Ahem, Tim. I have checked the statements in my e-mail.

I wrote:

In the steam era, most of the relatively little coal used in the
Northwest came from southern Utah.
Fact. Take a look, e.g., at the large number of D&RGW and UCR gons
on the Bieber interchange list. Sure, some coal came from other
sources as well. I did not say otherwise.
I wrote:

Nowhere in Oregon was coal mined in commercial quantities.
Fact. There was not a single coal mine in Oregon producing enough
coal to fill even one hopper car.
I wrote:

That's why all the steam locomotives burned oil, and why most
industries were fueled by oil or natural gas.
Fact. I grant that NP steam locos burned lignite (flammable dirt
that only barely qualifies as coal) in extreme eastern Washington.
However, on all of the railroads that served Seattle, Portland,
Vancouver, the Columbia River, and most of the rest of the area,
steam power burned oil.
Note that I my reference was to the Northwest. The Pacific Northwest
consists of Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia. Period. Utah,
Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming are in the Mountain West, not the
Pacific Northwest, as understood by everyone who lives out here. As
for North Dakota, it's separated from eastern Oregon and Washington
by 500 miles of Rocky Mountains and Great Plains, and by many more
miles than that from the major population centers in the Pacific
Northwest. You seem to be afflicted with the kind of geographical
confusion about the Western U.S. that is endemic among those who live
east of the Mississippi (and even more so among those who live east
of the Hudson).

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Greg Martin
 

Andy,

Being from So Cal and now living in the Pac Nor West the folks up here do
make the distinction specifically. They include Idaho, Washington, Oregon
and a bit of the coastal areas of Nor Cal as the PNW as well as British
Columbia, further north is simply the Yukon. Just a notation from someone who
moved here and listening to those that have always lived here. I also love
the freight car past that is found here... Salem, Or loaded all kinds of
freight cars during the steam to diesel era (mandatory freight car
requirement)>


Andy Carlson writes:




And Richard, since it seems to be popular sport to go after you, don't you
think that as an English Instructor the phrase "PACIFIC Northwest" is
unnecessarily wordy when "Northwest" will suffice?
-Andy Carlson

________________________________
John Riddell wrote:

Richard,

you wrote

The Pacific Northwest consists of Oregon, Washington, and British
Columbia. Period.

British Columbia is in the Pacific SOUTHwest. The Yukon is in the
NORTHwest.

You seem to be afflicted with the kind of geographical confusion that is
endemic among those who live
south of the 49th parallel. :-)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


switchengines <jrs060@...>
 

Well, actually Richard you are incorrect again. The Northern Pacific,
according to Mr. Warren McGee, a former NP employee and historian
of great respect, has written that the NP had three different coal districts.
The far eastern portion of the railroad was fueled in the steam era by lake
coal carried on return trips by ore carriers. The central part was fueled by
lignite coal from the NP's own mines. And the western portion was fueled
with coal that came from Washington state itself. It was NOT lignite, but
with all honesty, a bituminous of only fair quality when compared to it's
eastern counterparts.
The Northern Pacific burned Washington state bituminous coal well
through the 1940's and into the 50's. Oil fuel for steam locomotives out
of Tacoma, for example, was only to be found on some passenger, and
switching engines in the 1950's. Coal was still the common fuel on most
freight locomotive around Tacoma and Seattle almost to the end of steam.
There are some great articles to be found in the "Mainstreeter", the NPRHA
magazine, about NP steam era freights working out of Tacoma with coal
burning locomotive in the 1950's. And, for whoever is interested, photos
of the NP coal docks in western Washington state, painted in the railroads
distinctive two color scheme.

Happiness, Jerry Stewart

In a very ice covered Woodstock, Ill.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Dec 24, 2009, at 8:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ahem, Richard. Fact checking is in order. Coal was burned in
locomotives in Washington state, on the NP for example. Coal
was used in the production of cement and no doubt for other
purposes as well. And sources included western Canada as well
as Utah, Colorado, Montana, Wyoming and North Dakota.
Ahem, Tim. I have checked the statements in my e-mail.

I wrote:

In the steam era, most of the relatively little coal used in the
Northwest came from southern Utah.
Fact. Take a look, e.g., at the large number of D&RGW and UCR gons
on the Bieber interchange list. Sure, some coal came from other
sources as well. I did not say otherwise.
I wrote:

Nowhere in Oregon was coal mined in commercial quantities.
Fact. There was not a single coal mine in Oregon producing enough
coal to fill even one hopper car.
I wrote:

That's why all the steam locomotives burned oil, and why most
industries were fueled by oil or natural gas.
Fact. I grant that NP steam locos burned lignite (flammable dirt
that only barely qualifies as coal) in extreme eastern Washington.
However, on all of the railroads that served Seattle, Portland,
Vancouver, the Columbia River, and most of the rest of the area,
steam power burned oil.
Richard Hendrickson


Tim O'Connor
 

Yep. We already had this discussion several years ago, when someone
noted the presence of Canadian Pacific coal gondolas in consist lists.
And a simple Google search will reveal the location of NP coal docks,
including the very substantial installation in Auburn WA just outside
Tacoma.

Tim O'Connor

Well, actually Richard you are incorrect again. The Northern Pacific,
according to Mr. Warren McGee, a former NP employee and historian
of great respect, has written that the NP had three different coal districts.

The far eastern portion of the railroad was fueled in the steam era by lake
coal carried on return trips by ore carriers. The central part was fueled by
lignite coal from the NP's own mines. And the western portion was fueled
with coal that came from Washington state itself. It was NOT lignite, but
with all honesty, a bituminous of only fair quality when compared to it's
eastern counterparts.

The Northern Pacific burned Washington state bituminous coal well
through the 1940's and into the 50's. Oil fuel for steam locomotives out
of Tacoma, for example, was only to be found on some passenger, and
switching engines in the 1950's. Coal was still the common fuel on most
freight locomotive around Tacoma and Seattle almost to the end of steam.
There are some great articles to be found in the "Mainstreeter", the NPRHA
magazine, about NP steam era freights working out of Tacoma with coal
burning locomotive in the 1950's. And, for whoever is interested, photos
of the NP coal docks in western Washington state, painted in the railroads
distinctive two color scheme.

Happiness, Jerry Stewart
In a very ice covered Woodstock, Ill.

On Dec 24, 2009, at 8:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ahem, Richard. Fact checking is in order. Coal was burned in
locomotives in Washington state, on the NP for example. Coal
was used in the production of cement and no doubt for other
purposes as well. And sources included western Canada as well
as Utah, Colorado, Montana, Wyoming and North Dakota.
Ahem, Tim. I have checked the statements in my e-mail.

I wrote:

In the steam era, most of the relatively little coal used in the
Northwest came from southern Utah.
Fact. Take a look, e.g., at the large number of D&RGW and UCR gons
on the Bieber interchange list. Sure, some coal came from other
sources as well. I did not say otherwise.
I wrote:

Nowhere in Oregon was coal mined in commercial quantities.
Fact. There was not a single coal mine in Oregon producing enough
coal to fill even one hopper car.
I wrote:

That's why all the steam locomotives burned oil, and why most
industries were fueled by oil or natural gas.
Fact. I grant that NP steam locos burned lignite (flammable dirt
that only barely qualifies as coal) in extreme eastern Washington.
However, on all of the railroads that served Seattle, Portland,
Vancouver, the Columbia River, and most of the rest of the area,
steam power burned oil.
Richard Hendrickson


Tim O'Connor
 

For shame.... and you live in the Northwest? Tsk tsk. In addition to the
NP, the SP&S was also a substantial user of coal burning locomotives and
had a large coal dock straddling the mainline in Wishram WA.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/25/2009 05:05 PM Friday, you wrote:
I lived in Minnesota from the mid-50s to the early 70's, More than one local
TV news program proclaimed proudly "Here in the Great Northwest". Maybe
that's what confused Tim. False advertising by the TV stations.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon (herein the real Great Northwest)
www.sunshinemodels.com


gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

Group,
Didn't some states have laws proscribing the use of coal as locomotive fuel during the dry months of the year, in the hopes of minimizing the forest fire danger? I know that the GN was one railroad that designed removable oil bunkers so that tenders could be fairly easily converted between coal and oil as needed.

Also, as time went on, the GN favored oil as a locomotive fuel, mostly due to cost considerations. By the late forties, coal was only used as locomotive fuel in eastern ND and MN. GN went so far as to convert many of their stationary boilers to burn oil, which is described in some detail in my copy of GN's 1949 Annual report. I have seen aerial photos of Williston, ND (the traditional division between Lines East and Lines West on the GN) in 1949, and there is no coaling tower to be seen.

To keep this message somewhat on topic, the GN hauled this bunker oil in a fleet of several hundred company owned tankcars of mixed ancestry.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa City, IA


railsnw1 <railsnw@...>
 

Richard,

One Seattle area railroad did burn coal, the Pacific Coast Railroad which hauled coal from the mines around Black Diamond. It later was acquired by the Great Northern in the 50's.

Richard Wilkens

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
That's why all the steam locomotives burned oil, and why most
industries were fueled by oil or natural gas.
Fact. I grant that NP steam locos burned lignite (flammable dirt
that only barely qualifies as coal) in extreme eastern Washington.
However, on all of the railroads that served Seattle, Portland,
Vancouver, the Columbia River, and most of the rest of the area,
steam power burned oil.
Note that I my reference was to the Northwest. The Pacific Northwest
consists of Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia. Period. Utah,
Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming are in the Mountain West, not the
Pacific Northwest, as understood by everyone who lives out here. As
for North Dakota, it's separated from eastern Oregon and Washington
by 500 miles of Rocky Mountains and Great Plains, and by many more
miles than that from the major population centers in the Pacific
Northwest. You seem to be afflicted with the kind of geographical
confusion about the Western U.S. that is endemic among those who live
east of the Mississippi (and even more so among those who live east
of the Hudson).

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Richard, I mention coal sources east of the Rockies because coal
was (and still is) shipped from there to the Pacific Northwest. I
am not afflicted with any geographical disabilities, but you seem
to have substantial gaps in your knowledge no doubt due to your
concentration on railroads of the SOUTH-western United States like
the uh.. what was that name... oh yeah the Santa Fe I think it was.

Tim O'Connor

Note that I my reference was to the Northwest. The Pacific Northwest
consists of Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia. Period. Utah,
Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming are in the Mountain West, not the
Pacific Northwest, as understood by everyone who lives out here. As
for North Dakota, it's separated from eastern Oregon and Washington
by 500 miles of Rocky Mountains and Great Plains, and by many more
miles than that from the major population centers in the Pacific
Northwest. You seem to be afflicted with the kind of geographical
confusion about the Western U.S. that is endemic among those who live
east of the Mississippi (and even more so among those who live east
of the Hudson).

Richard Hendrickson


Andy Carlson
 

The SP&S coal dock was built in Wishram at the NP's insistence, for the intended use of NP engines, which ended up rarely, if ever, using the Pasco-Vancouver(WA) line. It was torn down years later hardly ever used. After the turn of the Century, the SP&S was an almost 100% oil burning line.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 8:04:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Coal in the Northwest



For shame.... and you live in the Northwest? Tsk tsk. In addition to the
NP, the SP&S was also a substantial user of coal burning locomotives and
had a large coal dock straddling the mainline in Wishram WA.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/25/2009 05:05 PM Friday, you wrote:
I lived in Minnesota from the mid-50s to the early 70's, More than one local
TV news program proclaimed proudly "Here in the Great Northwest". Maybe
that's what confused Tim. False advertising by the TV stations.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon (herein the real Great Northwest)
www.sunshinemodels .com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John Riddell <jriddell@...>
 

Richard,

you wrote

The Pacific Northwest consists of Oregon, Washington, and British
Columbia. Period.

British Columbia is in the Pacific SOUTHwest. The Yukon is in the NORTHwest.

You seem to be afflicted with the kind of geographical confusion that is
endemic among those who live
south of the 49th parallel. :-)

The Great Northern transported much coal for its steam locos from coal mines
that it owned the Crowsnest Pass area in B.C. F&C offers a resin kit for a
GN wood coal car used in the area.

John Riddell


Andy Carlson
 

And Richard, since it seems to be popular sport to go after you, don't you think that as an English Instructor the phrase "PACIFIC Northwest" is unnecessarily wordy when "Northwest" will suffice?
-Andy Carlson




________________________________
John Riddell wrote:

Richard,

you wrote

The Pacific Northwest consists of Oregon, Washington, and British
Columbia. Period.

British Columbia is in the Pacific SOUTHwest. The Yukon is in the NORTHwest.

You seem to be afflicted with the kind of geographical confusion that is
endemic among those who live
south of the 49th parallel. :-)


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Andy Carlson writes:


And Richard, since it seems to be popular sport to go after you, don't you think that as an English Instructor the phrase "PACIFIC Northwest" is unnecessarily wordy when "Northwest" will suffice?
In a word...No. Everyone knows that the term Northwest refers to the Florida Panhandle. Of course, the true West Coast runs from about Naples to about 100 miles north of Tampa. And...if you live in Texas, the Northwest refers to the area around Amarillo.

When I was a young lad in college and eager to pursue knowledge more associated with action and excitement, I took a course titled History of the West. There are those, no doubt, that might assume this was a course associated with California...or at least Montana or Nevada. Myself, I was looking to discuss and learn about the James gang, or the Dalton brothers...even the Plumber gang or Wild Bill Hickock, Wyatt Earp etc. Alas, it dealt with the western movement...primarily through Pennsylvania into Ohio. For people in New England, the West was Pennsylvania. So...depends upon where you are I guess. Me? I found it a bit boring.

Mike Brock...here we go again...


water.kresse@...
 

Folks,



Just read Coal Regions in America , by MacFarlane, circa 1873.  I believe it has a chapter on the California to Alaska coal fields in it.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brock" <brockm@brevard.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 10:18:44 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Coal in the Northwest

Andy Carlson writes:


And Richard, since it seems to be popular sport to go after you, don't you
think that as an English Instructor the phrase "PACIFIC Northwest" is
unnecessarily wordy when "Northwest" will suffice?
In a word...No. Everyone knows that the term Northwest refers to the Florida
Panhandle. Of course, the true West Coast runs from about Naples to about
100 miles north of Tampa. And...if you live in Texas, the Northwest refers
to the area around Amarillo.

When I was a young lad in college and eager to pursue knowledge more
associated with action and excitement, I took a course titled History of the
West. There are those, no doubt, that might assume this was a course
associated with California...or at least Montana or Nevada. Myself, I was
looking to discuss and learn about the James gang, or the Dalton
brothers...even the Plumber gang or Wild Bill Hickock, Wyatt Earp etc. Alas,
it dealt with the western movement...primarily through Pennsylvania into
Ohio. For people in New England, the West was Pennsylvania. So...depends
upon where you are I guess. Me? I found it a bit boring.

Mike Brock...here we go again...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Allen Rueter
 

The SP&S signed a contract in Sep 1910 with Associated Oil for 3 years that made it cheaper than
coal - "The North Bank Road" by Gaertner, which got it out on NP Roslyn Coal, It took a year
to convert, they bought 20 tanks cars for the SP&S and 10 for the OT.

Where did the oil come from?


--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________
From: Andy Carlson <midcentury@sbcglobal.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 10:43:26 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Coal in the Northwest


The SP&S coal dock was built in Wishram at the NP's insistence, for the intended use of NP engines, which ended up rarely, if ever, using the Pasco-Vancouver( WA) line. It was torn down years later hardly ever used. After the turn of the Century, the SP&S was an almost 100% oil burning line.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 8:04:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Coal in the Northwest

For shame.... and you live in the Northwest? Tsk tsk. In addition to the
NP, the SP&S was also a substantial user of coal burning locomotives and
had a large coal dock straddling the mainline in Wishram WA.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/25/2009 05:05 PM Friday, you wrote:
I lived in Minnesota from the mid-50s to the early 70's, More than one local
TV news program proclaimed proudly "Here in the Great Northwest". Maybe
that's what confused Tim. False advertising by the TV stations.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon (herein the real Great Northwest)
www.sunshinemodels .com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Allen Rueter
 

Now we just need an HO Pressed Steel 12500 gal tank car (1911).

Allen Rueter
St. Louis MO

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Allen Rueter <allen_282@...> wrote:

The SP&S signed a contract in Sep 1910 with Associated Oil for 3 years that made it cheaper than
coal - "The North Bank Road" by Gaertner, which got it out on NP Roslyn Coal, It took a year
to convert, they bought 20 tanks cars for the SP&S and 10 for the OT.

Where did the oil come from?


--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________
From: Andy Carlson <midcentury@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 10:43:26 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Coal in the Northwest


The SP&S coal dock was built in Wishram at the NP's insistence, for the intended use of NP engines, which ended up rarely, if ever, using the Pasco-Vancouver( WA) line. It was torn down years later hardly ever used. After the turn of the Century, the SP&S was an almost 100% oil burning line.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 8:04:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Coal in the Northwest

For shame.... and you live in the Northwest? Tsk tsk. In addition to the
NP, the SP&S was also a substantial user of coal burning locomotives and
had a large coal dock straddling the mainline in Wishram WA.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/25/2009 05:05 PM Friday, you wrote:
I lived in Minnesota from the mid-50s to the early 70's, More than one local
TV news program proclaimed proudly "Here in the Great Northwest". Maybe
that's what confused Tim. False advertising by the TV stations.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon (herein the real Great Northwest)
www.sunshinemodels .com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, no, Andy. Because there is a reason that Case Western Reserve University (now shortened to
"Case University) and Northwestern University both have those western and northwestern references.
When they were named, that WAS the west, and the northwest. So using "Pacific northwest" clarifies
which "northwest" you are referring to.

SGL

And Richard, since it seems to be popular sport to go after you, don't you think that as an
English Instructor the phrase
"PACIFIC Northwest" is unnecessarily wordy when "Northwest" will suffice?
-Andy Carlson

________________________________
John Riddell wrote:

Richard,

you wrote

The Pacific Northwest consists of Oregon, Washington, and British
Columbia. Period.

British Columbia is in the Pacific SOUTHwest. The Yukon is in the NORTHwest.

You seem to be afflicted with the kind of geographical confusion that is
endemic among those who live
south of the 49th parallel. :-)




E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (7.0.0.508)
Database version: 6.13990
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/


Bruce Smith
 

Andy Carlson <midcentury@sbcglobal.net> 12/25/09 11:31 PM >>>
And Richard, since it seems to be popular sport to go after you, don't
you think that as an English Instructor the phrase "PACIFIC Northwest"
is unnecessarily wordy when "Northwest" will suffice?
-Andy Carlson

Andy,

Absolutely! 'Round here, "the Northwest" refers to Mussel Shoals ;^)
(home of one of the earliest railroads west of the appalachians.)

regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Tim O'Connor
 

Andy

Well, there you go -- since Richard didn't include any timeline
disclaimers, I took his statement to mean that coal was not used
at all. After all, I could say that railroads in the PNW didn't use
steam locomotives, and I'd be correct for certain periods of STMFC
time.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/25/2009 11:43 PM Friday, you wrote:
The SP&S coal dock was built in Wishram at the NP's insistence, for the intended use of NP engines, which ended up rarely, if ever, using the Pasco-Vancouver(WA) line. It was torn down years later hardly ever used. After the turn of the Century, the SP&S was an almost 100% oil burning line.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Tim O'Connor
 

Allen

There was always substantial coastal shipping between
California and Oregon/Washington, and once dams and locks
were installed on the Columbia, there was a substantial
amount of inland waterborne freight traffic too. My guess
is that oil came from California in coastal tankers for the
most part.

Tim O'Connor

The SP&S signed a contract in Sep 1910 with Associated Oil for 3 years that made it cheaper than
coal - "The North Bank Road" by Gaertner, which got it out on NP Roslyn Coal, It took a year
to convert, they bought 20 tanks cars for the SP&S and 10 for the OT.

Where did the oil come from?
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO