express reefers loading/unloading


Brian Carlson
 

To get away from coal for a moment. at larger terminals, Pittsburgh,
Buffalo, Cleveland, etc would express reefers of strawberries for instance
be unloaded at the station or REA terminal, or would they be delivered a
food/produce terminal in the city. Cities like Buffalo and Cleveland had
food terminals and I was wondering if express reefers would be switched from
a passenger train to these locations?
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Brian Carlson wrote:
To get away from coal for a moment. at larger terminals, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Cleveland, etc would express reefers of strawberries for instance be unloaded at the station or REA terminal, or would they be delivered a food/produce terminal in the city. Cities like Buffalo and Cleveland had food terminals and I was wondering if express reefers would be switched from a passenger train to these locations?
From what I know about PFE, the produce terminals were always used, not passenger depots. The role of REA is an interesting question, as they controlled express reefers for most railroads, but I think were still routed to produce terminals to serve the normal buyers in those locations.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Brian Carlson
 

Thanks tony: It's one of those questions that popped up while researching
the Niagara Frontier (Buffalo) NY) Food terminal.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:04 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] express reefers loading/unloading



From what I know about PFE, the produce terminals were always
used, not passenger depots. The role of REA is an interesting
question, as they controlled express reefers for most railroads, but I
think were still routed to produce terminals to serve the normal
buyers in those locations.


Tim O'Connor
 

For unloading, that makes sense. What about loading? I've seen
photos/videos of trains with many express reefers. Were they
handled by local passenger trains like the cream/butter business,
or by freights, and then later consolidated for long haul on
mail/passenger trains?

Tim O'Connor

At 12/28/2009 10:04 PM Monday, you wrote:
Brian Carlson wrote:
To get away from coal for a moment. at larger terminals, Pittsburgh,
Buffalo, Cleveland, etc would express reefers of strawberries for
instance be unloaded at the station or REA terminal, or would they
be delivered a food/produce terminal in the city. Cities like
Buffalo and Cleveland had food terminals and I was wondering if
express reefers would be switched from a passenger train to these
locations?
From what I know about PFE, the produce terminals were always
used, not passenger depots. The role of REA is an interesting
question, as they controlled express reefers for most railroads, but I
think were still routed to produce terminals to serve the normal
buyers in those locations.

Tony Thompson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
For unloading, that makes sense. What about loading? I've seen photos/videos of trains with many express reefers. Were they handled by local passenger trains like the cream/butter business,or by freights, and then later consolidated for long haul on mail/ passenger trains?
Good point. I'd guess it would depend on the local circumstances, for example how easy a pickup by a passenger train would be. Certainly no one is going to park a passenger while the locomotive wanders off to an industrial siding somewhere. There's an example cited in the PFE book of strawberries in express reefers, with cars timed to complete loading and be picked up and taken straight to the main line by the normal local freight, to meet a passenger train. Other situations would require other solutions.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


michael bishop <goldrod_1@...>
 

I have been told by some older Santa Fe men (and this was thirty years ago) that the East bound Grand Canyon would pick up two or three REA reefers in Fullerton, Ca during the Strawberry season for back east. I have seen photos of the Grand Canyon during the strawberry season with REA reefers, if they were picked up in Fullerton I do not know. I  have had fun doing this move over the years with my east bound Grand Canyon.
 
Michael Bishop

--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote:


From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] express reefers loading/unloading
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 10:12 PM


 



Tim O'Connor wrote:
For unloading, that makes sense. What about loading? I've seen
photos/videos of trains with many express reefers. Were they handled
by local passenger trains like the cream/butter business,or by
freights, and then later consolidated for long haul on mail/
passenger trains?
Good point. I'd guess it would depend on the local
circumstances, for example how easy a pickup by a passenger train
would be. Certainly no one is going to park a passenger while the
locomotive wanders off to an industrial siding somewhere. There's an
example cited in the PFE book of strawberries in express reefers, with
cars timed to complete loading and be picked up and taken straight to
the main line by the normal local freight, to meet a passenger train.
Other situations would require other solutions.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


np328
 

Back in May, I had uploaded a bit of paperwork I had found that might help with how some of these loads are consolidated. It is in the files section here listed as "Fruit and Vegetable Transit in PNW 1934.doc". I wish I could have found something in the 1950's timeframe however......

On the NPRHA site, I transcribed an instructional listing of the
manifesting of trains. I would think that each railroad had it's own instructions of how these loads were to be handled. The listing I had was a 1929 listing. Since then I have found more leading up to the mid 1950's (these seem to have been issued every three months on the NP) however the documents differ not too much from the 1929 posting other than a bit of tweaking.
Jim Dick -St.Paul

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

For unloading, that makes sense. What about loading? I've seen
photos/videos of trains with many express reefers. Were they
handled by local passenger trains like the cream/butter business,
or by freights, and then later consolidated for long haul on
mail/passenger trains?

Tim O'Connor


At 12/28/2009 10:04 PM Monday, you wrote:
Brian Carlson wrote:
To get away from coal for a moment. at larger terminals, Pittsburgh,
Buffalo, Cleveland, etc would express reefers of strawberries for
instance be unloaded at the station or REA terminal, or would they
be delivered a food/produce terminal in the city. Cities like
Buffalo and Cleveland had food terminals and I was wondering if
express reefers would be switched from a passenger train to these
locations?
From what I know about PFE, the produce terminals were always
used, not passenger depots. The role of REA is an interesting
question, as they controlled express reefers for most railroads, but I
think were still routed to produce terminals to serve the normal
buyers in those locations.

Tony Thompson


Steve SANDIFER
 

From the Santa Fe Society website:

Express Special East, 8/29/52, Amarillo
Contributed by Richard Stephey
Engine 2900

REX 1581 ExpReef ExpReef 1200-1899 Broadway Ltd LCL Perishable Chicago
REX 6240 ExpReef ExpReef 6100-6599 Branchline Grapes New York SR 3 PC
REX 6733 ExpReef ExpReef 6600-6799 Grapes Chicago SR3 PC
REX 6583 ExpReef ExpReef 6100-6599 Branchline Grapes New York SR No salt
REX 1491 ExpReef 1200-1899 Broadway Ltd Grapes New York SR 3 PC
NCSTL 3905 Grapes Chicago SR No salt
REX 282 ExpReef ExpReef 275-474 Grapes Chicago SR No salt
ATSF 4034 ExpReef REA/ATSF ExpReef 4000-4049 Grapes Chicago SR No salt
REX 6173 ExpReef ExpReef 6100-6599 Branchline Grapes New York SR No salt
ATSF 275 Hwt ACF BagMailExp 257-319 Baggage
ATSF 397 Hwt PS BagMailExp 383-399 Baggage
ATSF 3706 Lwt PS/ATSF RPO-Bag 3700-3749 Baggage
ATSF 357 Bad Number Baggage
ATSF 1861 Hwt ATSF BagMailExp 1861-1884 Msgr Baggage DH KsCity
ATSF 1165 Hwt PS 58 seat chair Rider Chair Car Kansas City


----------------------------------------------------------------
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@sbcglobal.net
Home: 12027 Mulholland Dr., Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX
77025, 713-667-9417
Personal: http://www.geocities.com/stevesandifer2000/index
Church: http://www.swcentral.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] express reefers loading/unloading



Tim O'Connor wrote:
> For unloading, that makes sense. What about loading? I've seen
> photos/videos of trains with many express reefers. Were they handled
> by local passenger trains like the cream/butter business,or by
> freights, and then later consolidated for long haul on mail/
> passenger trains?

Good point. I'd guess it would depend on the local
circumstances, for example how easy a pickup by a passenger train
would be. Certainly no one is going to park a passenger while the
locomotive wanders off to an industrial siding somewhere. There's an
example cited in the PFE book of strawberries in express reefers, with
cars timed to complete loading and be picked up and taken straight to
the main line by the normal local freight, to meet a passenger train.
Other situations would require other solutions.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


railwayman <stevelucas3@...>
 

Many local passenger trains lifted and set off express cars behind the coaches. It's easier to move the markers back and do up an air hose than to disconnect and re-connect steam pipe and air signal lines as well. Especially when wearing a passenger trainman's uniform and trying not to soil it.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:
For unloading, that makes sense. What about loading? I've seen
photos/videos of trains with many express reefers. Were they handled
by local passenger trains like the cream/butter business,or by
freights, and then later consolidated for long haul on mail/
passenger trains?
Good point. I'd guess it would depend on the local
circumstances, for example how easy a pickup by a passenger train
would be. Certainly no one is going to park a passenger while the
locomotive wanders off to an industrial siding somewhere. There's an
example cited in the PFE book of strawberries in express reefers, with
cars timed to complete loading and be picked up and taken straight to
the main line by the normal local freight, to meet a passenger train.
Other situations would require other solutions.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 29, 2009, at 12:26 AM, michael bishop wrote:

I have been told by some older Santa Fe men (and this was thirty years ago) that the East bound Grand Canyon would pick up two or three REA reefers in Fullerton, Ca during the Strawberry season for back east. I have seen photos of the Grand Canyon during the strawberry season with REA reefers, if they were picked up in Fullerton I do not know. I have had fun doing this move over the years with my east bound Grand Canyon.
This was a well established routine at the beginning of the strawberry season, and I saw it done in the late 1940s. A local freight would spot the cars, already iced, on the Fullerton house track for loading. The eastbound Grand Canyon had a station stop at Fullerton anyway, so they would back the entire train into the house track to collect the loaded express reefers on the tail end and take them to San Bernardino, where a longer station stop provided time for the San Berdo switcher to shift them to the head end. That way, they didn't have to mess with the steam heat connections at Fullerton, just hook up the air and go. The backing move to pick up the cars with a long train and a big 4-8-2 or 4-8-4 passenger locomotive was not popular with engine and train crews, but it was done that way for years with, so far as I know, no mishaps.

Richard Hendrickson


proto48er
 

Tim -

In the limited example of shipping of grapefruit baskets from the Rio Grande Valley of south Texas to the New York area at Christmas, the express reefers were loaded at dedicated produce shipping sheds and handled in freight trains with other freight reefers. The express reefers were only used for the fruit baskets - they were not shipped in freight reefers. Most of this traffic was handled by ART over the MoPac (StLB&M). Ralph H. Carlson, a prolific steam-era photographer and railfan, told me this on a visit to Harlingen back in 1983. We visited several of the area shipping sheds that remained - they were all open-air, since the weather is very mild there (unlike here in San Antonio today).

Happy New Year!

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

For unloading, that makes sense. What about loading? I've seen
photos/videos of trains with many express reefers. Were they
handled by local passenger trains like the cream/butter business,
or by freights, and then later consolidated for long haul on
mail/passenger trains?

Tim O'Connor


Mark
 

Hello
Lived in San Antonio as a kid(when pres K was shot), what is the weather like down there? We have 3" of snow with 25 degrees and wind from the north. Missed the trains down there but remember the ACL E-6 my dad raced to beat!
Sincerely, Mark Morgan

--- On Tue, 12/29/09, proto48er <atkott@swbell.net> wrote:

From: proto48er <atkott@swbell.net>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: express reefers loading/unloading
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 4:19 PM
















 









Tim -



In the limited example of shipping of grapefruit baskets from the Rio Grande Valley of south Texas to the New York area at Christmas, the express reefers were loaded at dedicated produce shipping sheds and handled in freight trains with other freight reefers. The express reefers were only used for the fruit baskets - they were not shipped in freight reefers. Most of this traffic was handled by ART over the MoPac (StLB&M). Ralph H. Carlson, a prolific steam-era photographer and railfan, told me this on a visit to Harlingen back in 1983. We visited several of the area shipping sheds that remained - they were all open-air, since the weather is very mild there (unlike here in San Antonio today).



Happy New Year!



A.T. Kott



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...> wrote:

For unloading, that makes sense. What about loading? I've seen
photos/videos of trains with many express reefers. Were they
handled by local passenger trains like the cream/butter business,
or by freights, and then later consolidated for long haul on
mail/passenger trains?
Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks, this is all very interesting. So where were the StLB&M express
reefers out of the Rio Grande Valley handed over to passenger trains? Or
did passenger trains stop and pick them up directly, like at Fullerton CA?

I remember open produce sheds in Texas... was born in San Antonio and have
been back many times since. There were some large galvanized steel sheds in
town too.

Tim O'Connor

Tim -

In the limited example of shipping of grapefruit baskets from the Rio Grande Valley of south Texas to the New York area at Christmas, the express reefers were loaded at dedicated produce shipping sheds and handled in freight trains with other freight reefers. The express reefers were only used for the fruit baskets - they were not shipped in freight reefers. Most of this traffic was handled by ART over the MoPac (StLB&M). Ralph H. Carlson, a prolific steam-era photographer and railfan, told me this on a visit to Harlingen back in 1983. We visited several of the area shipping sheds that remained - they were all open-air, since the weather is very mild there (unlike here in San Antonio today).

Happy New Year!

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

For unloading, that makes sense. What about loading? I've seen
photos/videos of trains with many express reefers. Were they
handled by local passenger trains like the cream/butter business,
or by freights, and then later consolidated for long haul on
mail/passenger trains?

Tim O'Connor


proto48er
 

Tim -

It is as cold here for most of the last few weeks as it was back in Naperville last month! Very unseasonably cold weather for us!

I do not think the express reefers were removed from the block of freight reefers as long as they were on the MP. I was told they went up the StLB&M line to Houston, and think they went up the I-GN line to Palestine, then to the T&P at Longview, then to the MP at Texarkana.

The express reefers only contained grapefruit in baskets - the freight reefers had other winter produce in them. Perhaps the express reefers were segregated out of the fruit block in St Louis before delivery to whatever carrier got them next (NYC or PRR). They were all definately sent to New York City. Maybe the next carrier handled them in passenger trains?? Maybe that was why the grapefruit was always loaded in express reefers and not freight reefers?? Perhaps the place in NYC where they were unloaded required passenger - equipped cars?? The grapefruit were individually wrapped in cellophane and placed 8-10 in a wicker gift basket - they were ready for sale without further processing.

Happy New Year!

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Thanks, this is all very interesting. So where were the StLB&M express
reefers out of the Rio Grande Valley handed over to passenger trains? Or
did passenger trains stop and pick them up directly, like at Fullerton CA?

I remember open produce sheds in Texas... was born in San Antonio and have
been back many times since. There were some large galvanized steel sheds in
town too.

Tim O'Connor


Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Guyz,
 
           If the shipper was willing to pay the extra fee for express reefers, they most likely went by pass schedule. The PRR fans have numerous photos of express reefers on the head end of many of the west-east pass trains. Chicago must have been a mad house when the different season arrived.
 
I have not found any express reefers in perishable reefer consists as yet; and was surprised by not finding any. doubt they went into an LCL express train; however, never say never when it comes to a class 1 RR.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 12/30/09, proto48er <atkott@swbell.net> wrote:


From: proto48er <atkott@swbell.net>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: express reefers loading/unloading
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 3:24 PM


 



Tim -

It is as cold here for most of the last few weeks as it was back in Naperville last month! Very unseasonably cold weather for us!

I do not think the express reefers were removed from the block of freight reefers as long as they were on the MP. I was told they went up the StLB&M line to Houston, and think they went up the I-GN line to Palestine, then to the T&P at Longview, then to the MP at Texarkana.

The express reefers only contained grapefruit in baskets - the freight reefers had other winter produce in them. Perhaps the express reefers were segregated out of the fruit block in St Louis before delivery to whatever carrier got them next (NYC or PRR). They were all definately sent to New York City. Maybe the next carrier handled them in passenger trains?? Maybe that was why the grapefruit was always loaded in express reefers and not freight reefers?? Perhaps the place in NYC where they were unloaded required passenger - equipped cars?? The grapefruit were individually wrapped in cellophane and placed 8-10 in a wicker gift basket - they were ready for sale without further processing.

Happy New Year!

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...> wrote:


Thanks, this is all very interesting. So where were the StLB&M express
reefers out of the Rio Grande Valley handed over to passenger trains? Or
did passenger trains stop and pick them up directly, like at Fullerton CA?

I remember open produce sheds in Texas... was born in San Antonio and have
been back many times since. There were some large galvanized steel sheds in
town too.

Tim O'Connor







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]