NEWSPRINT


brooklynbus <mec-bml@...>
 

SHIPMENT OF NEWSPRINT...In the 1950's would most of the paper mills have been in NewEngland and if so,what would have been the route(s)to get the newsprint to cities like NY and Philia(and Boston).And in cities would the cars been unloaded at the newspaper or off sight(team tracks)..
Thanks
Joel Norman


Tim O'Connor
 

Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks. I don't know
about your New England statement however -- newsprint comes from
many sources, especially Canada. I don't know of any newsprint mills
in New England, although maybe there were some in the 1950's.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/30/2009 11:37 AM Wednesday, you wrote:
SHIPMENT OF NEWSPRINT...In the 1950's would most of the paper mills have been in NewEngland and if so,what would have been the route(s)to get the newsprint to cities like NY and Philia(and Boston).And in cities would the cars been unloaded at the newspaper or off sight(team tracks)..
Thanks
Joel Norman


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

"Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks."

Not so fast, Tim. For many years the "Milwaukee Journal" received newsprint in boxcars at a concrete unloading dock at the south end of the Milwaukee Road's Beer Line. This was known as the "Journal Paper Dock." The big, heavy rolls of paper were unloaded there and reloaded into trucks for the trip to the printing plant in the basement of the Journal Building, which was only a few blocks away but not on any rail line. This transloading was still a regular operation when I first moved to Milwaukee in 1979.

Either when the Beer Line shut down or some time before, the Journal Co. began using the Hansen Storage warehouse on the west side of Milwaukee, along the Chicago & North Western's old freight line. Newsprint still came by rail to Hansen's warehouse, and was trucked downtown as needed. By the way, this is the same Hansen Storage warehouse Gordy Odegard modeled for our club layout in a March 1992 "Model Railroader" article.

It's been a while since I heard anything about how the Journal Co. gets its paper, but the newspaper business being as it is, I'm sure it doesn't buy nearly as much as it once did.

Happy New Year,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Andy, on further digging I found a newsprint mill in Jay, Maine,
that closed this year after 110 years in business. Newsprint consumption
is down 30% in 2009...

Tim O'Connor

At 12/30/2009 01:57 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
"Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks."

Not so fast, Tim. For many years the "Milwaukee Journal" received newsprint in boxcars at a concrete unloading dock at the south end of the Milwaukee Road's Beer Line. This was known as the "Journal Paper Dock." The big, heavy rolls of paper were unloaded there and reloaded into trucks for the trip to the printing plant in the basement of the Journal Building, which was only a few blocks away but not on any rail line. This transloading was still a regular operation when I first moved to Milwaukee in 1979.

Either when the Beer Line shut down or some time before, the Journal Co. began using the Hansen Storage warehouse on the west side of Milwaukee, along the Chicago & North Western's old freight line. Newsprint still came by rail to Hansen's warehouse, and was trucked downtown as needed. By the way, this is the same Hansen Storage warehouse Gordy Odegard modeled for our club layout in a March 1992 "Model Railroader" article.

It's been a while since I heard anything about how the Journal Co. gets its paper, but the newspaper business being as it is, I'm sure it doesn't buy nearly as much as it once did.

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Guyz,
 
          If it helps with the understanding of the paper shipping; the Boston Globe has it's own siding into the plant. Newsprint arrived almost daily by rail. Not so sure about other newspapers in the area.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 12/30/09, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 3:04 PM


 




Thanks Andy, on further digging I found a newsprint mill in Jay, Maine,
that closed this year after 110 years in business. Newsprint consumption
is down 30% in 2009...

Tim O'Connor

At 12/30/2009 01:57 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
"Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks."

Not so fast, Tim. For many years the "Milwaukee Journal" received newsprint in boxcars at a concrete unloading dock at the south end of the Milwaukee Road's Beer Line. This was known as the "Journal Paper Dock." The big, heavy rolls of paper were unloaded there and reloaded into trucks for the trip to the printing plant in the basement of the Journal Building, which was only a few blocks away but not on any rail line. This transloading was still a regular operation when I first moved to Milwaukee in 1979.

Either when the Beer Line shut down or some time before, the Journal Co. began using the Hansen Storage warehouse on the west side of Milwaukee, along the Chicago & North Western's old freight line. Newsprint still came by rail to Hansen's warehouse, and was trucked downtown as needed. By the way, this is the same Hansen Storage warehouse Gordy Odegard modeled for our club layout in a March 1992 "Model Railroader" article.

It's been a while since I heard anything about how the Journal Co. gets its paper, but the newspaper business being as it is, I'm sure it doesn't buy nearly as much as it once did.

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag. com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Paul <buygone@...>
 

Tim:



Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:36 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT






Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks. I don't know
about your New England statement however -- newsprint comes from
many sources, especially Canada. I don't know of any newsprint mills
in New England, although maybe there were some in the 1950's.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/30/2009 11:37 AM Wednesday, you wrote:
SHIPMENT OF NEWSPRINT...In the 1950's would most of the paper mills have
been in NewEngland and if so,what would have been the route(s)to get the
newsprint to cities like NY and Philia(and Boston).And in cities would the
cars been unloaded at the newspaper or off sight(team tracks)..
Thanks
Joel Norman


Schuyler Larrabee
 

There was a paper mill at Ticonderoga which I remember from when I was a kid, the hydrogen sulphide
(sulfide?) smell was overwhelming. I believe they made newsprint, among other papers.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:36 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT




Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks. I don't know
about your New England statement however -- newsprint comes from
many sources, especially Canada. I don't know of any newsprint mills
in New England, although maybe there were some in the 1950's.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/30/2009 11:37 AM Wednesday, you wrote:
SHIPMENT OF NEWSPRINT...In the 1950's would most of the paper mills have been in NewEngland and
if so,what
would have been the route(s)to get the newsprint to cities like NY and Philia(and Boston).And in
cities would the cars
been unloaded at the newspaper or off sight(team tracks)..
Thanks
Joel Norman







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Greg Martin
 

Paul,

Paper rolls of any kind require a "paper quality floor" or dock. You can
only imagine what would happen to a roll paper if the surface that you were
unloading on were to create even small holes in the paper edge or face. So I
am sure the dock you are referring to was a better taken care of then most
and likely swept clean before any carload was unloaded checking for any
FOD material.

Greg Martin

In a message dated 12/30/2009 11:16:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
buygone@... writes:




Tim:

Nothing special just a concrete dock with no cover. Rolls were normally
loaded eye to the sky and the trucker in this case Bundren would bring a
fork lift with a roll clamp. Unload the cars, transfer to their trucks, and
deliver to the Times.

Paul

_____

From: _STMFC@... (mailto:STMFC@...)
[mailto:_STMFC@... (mailto:STMFC@...) ] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:48 PM
To: _STMFC@... (mailto:STMFC@...)
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT

Paul

It sounds like from your description and Andy's that if there
was a specially equipped unloading dock then paper rolls could be
transloaded. But that's far from the suggestion of spotting a
load of newsprint at a "team track". The paper I read in NJ as a
teen (Courier-Post) had no rail service either, so it must have
come from a PRR/PRSL unloading site nearby.

Tim O'Connor

Tim:

Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion
via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.

Paul C. Koehler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Greg Martin
 

Tony replies:


"Paul's description sounded like the rolls were not set down on the dock,
but picked up in the cars and carried to the trucks."


Understood Tony, and that is certainly a good way to do it, less handling
out of car into/onto a truck,. Lets consider the fact the forklifts have
rubber tires, often hard rubber tires for the "boxcar specials". Regardless,
the tires will pick up, transfer and deposit FOD in the trailer and likely
under the next roll of paper your driver has to set down in the trailer.
Many of the photos I have seen of paper transloading from the era we model
show the rolls of paper being loaded onto flatbed trucks with the rolls eye
to the side and braced and blocked. As a matter of fact we often use these
photos in comparison in our Power Point presentations to show that
transloading is not new to any industry. Most roll clamps also have a turntable
mounted between the mast and the clamp so the driver can lay the roll down eye
to the side as this is how the roll is handle to the printer. FOD would
cause the paper feeding into the printer (regardless if the damage was on the
side or edge) to tear over and over again until the hole/tear were gone.

To answer Tim's question paper rolls vary in weight form 5k to 12k
depending on the customer specification. There all qualities of paper from pulp
board, liner board to photo paper. Photo paper generally requires that the
rolls are set on rubber mats not only in the rail cars, but in the trucks
during distribution as well as in mill/warehouse storage, but not the case for
news print, which normally only requires it is set on red rosin paper or
pulp board.

Greg Martin


Tim O'Connor
 

Paul

It sounds like from your description and Andy's that if there
was a specially equipped unloading dock then paper rolls could be
transloaded. But that's far from the suggestion of spotting a
load of newsprint at a "team track". The paper I read in NJ as a
teen (Courier-Post) had no rail service either, so it must have
come from a PRR/PRSL unloading site nearby.

Tim O'Connor

Tim:

Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.

Paul C. Koehler


Paul <buygone@...>
 

Tim:



Nothing special just a concrete dock with no cover. Rolls were normally
loaded eye to the sky and the trucker in this case Bundren would bring a
fork lift with a roll clamp. Unload the cars, transfer to their trucks, and
deliver to the Times.



Paul



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT





Paul

It sounds like from your description and Andy's that if there
was a specially equipped unloading dock then paper rolls could be
transloaded. But that's far from the suggestion of spotting a
load of newsprint at a "team track". The paper I read in NJ as a
teen (Courier-Post) had no rail service either, so it must have
come from a PRR/PRSL unloading site nearby.

Tim O'Connor

Tim:

Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.

Paul C. Koehler


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Greg Martin wrote:
Paper rolls of any kind require a "paper quality floor" or dock. You can only imagine what would happen to a roll paper if the surface that you were unloading on were to create even small holes in the paper edge or face. So I am sure the dock you are referring to was a better taken care of then most and likely swept clean before any carload was unloaded checking for any FOD material.
Paul's description sounded like the rolls were not set down on the dock, but picked up in the cars and carried to the trucks.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


cliffprather
 

The Santa Ana (Calif)Register recieved newsprint at the Santa Fe station in Santa Ana and the paper was trucked to their facility. They used a concrete dock at the end of the freight house part of the depot. It was not used only for paper unloading and while they may have cleaned the surface before transferring the paper from the boxcar to the truck no other specialized equipment was apparent.

Other docks at the depot has wood floors and I don't recall them being used for newsprint unloading.

Cliff Prather

--- In STMFC@..., tgregmrtn@... wrote:

Paul,

Paper rolls of any kind require a "paper quality floor" or dock. You can
only imagine what would happen to a roll paper if the surface that you were
unloading on were to create even small holes in the paper edge or face. So I
am sure the dock you are referring to was a better taken care of then most
and likely swept clean before any carload was unloaded checking for any
FOD material.

Greg Martin


In a message dated 12/30/2009 11:16:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
buygone@... writes:




Tim:

Nothing special just a concrete dock with no cover. Rolls were normally
loaded eye to the sky and the trucker in this case Bundren would bring a
fork lift with a roll clamp. Unload the cars, transfer to their trucks, and
deliver to the Times.

Paul

_____

From: _STMFC@..._ (mailto:STMFC@...)
[mailto:_STMFC@..._ (mailto:STMFC@...) ] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:48 PM
To: _STMFC@..._ (mailto:STMFC@...)
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT

Paul

It sounds like from your description and Andy's that if there
was a specially equipped unloading dock then paper rolls could be
transloaded. But that's far from the suggestion of spotting a
load of newsprint at a "team track". The paper I read in NJ as a
teen (Courier-Post) had no rail service either, so it must have
come from a PRR/PRSL unloading site nearby.

Tim O'Connor

Tim:

Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion
via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.

Paul C. Koehler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Paul

Thanks. Once the truck was full, where did they put the fork lift? :-)

It's not newsprint, but a local box company here stores huge rolls
of brown craft paper outdoors, in the weather. The rolls look like
they weigh many tons. How big was a newsprint roll in the 1950's?

Tim

At 12/31/2009 02:15 AM Thursday, you wrote:
Tim:

Nothing special just a concrete dock with no cover. Rolls were normally
loaded eye to the sky and the trucker in this case Bundren would bring a
fork lift with a roll clamp. Unload the cars, transfer to their trucks, and
deliver to the Times.

Paul



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT





Paul

It sounds like from your description and Andy's that if there
was a specially equipped unloading dock then paper rolls could be
transloaded. But that's far from the suggestion of spotting a
load of newsprint at a "team track". The paper I read in NJ as a
teen (Courier-Post) had no rail service either, so it must have
come from a PRR/PRSL unloading site nearby.

Tim O'Connor

Tim:












Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.

Paul C. Koehler


Marty McGuirk
 

A great deal of newsprint was shipped into the Northeastern U. S. from Canada via the Central Vermont and then to the New Haven. CV Train 430 was dubbed the "Newsboy" since it carried so much newsprint - virtually all of it in CN boxcars (mandatory freight car content).



Marty


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Tim,

The only special equipment on the Journal Paper Dock in Milwaukee was a lift truck equipped to handle the paper rolls. I can't recall it seeing at the dock when a car wasn't being unloaded, so it may have been kept at the Journal building and brought over on the paper truck when needed. As with too many things, I only began to take an interest in this operation after it ended.

Happy New Year,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Paul Koehler wrote: "Nothing special just a concrete dock with no cover." Being in Milwaukee rather than "Sunny California," the Journal Paper Dock did have a roof, but was open on all sides. (Yeah, I know they DO have weather in LA, hence the quotes.)

Andy


robertm <robertmoeller47@...>
 

In the 1950s trains south from Canada were 100+ cars with newsprint and
other products either from Canada or from the far west through
Chicago.As late as 2005 Central Vermont cars with newsprint were
supplying the Bergen Record in Hackensack NJ on a New York Susquehanna
and Western line right into the newspaper.

Haven't seen any cars there recently and I don't think the NYS&W is
doing much business on that line these days, haven't seen any trains.

Bob Moeller


--- In STMFC@..., Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:



A great deal of newsprint was shipped into the Northeastern U. S. from
Canada via the Central Vermont and then to the New Haven. CV Train 430
was dubbed the "Newsboy" since it carried so much newsprint - virtually
all of it in CN boxcars (mandatory freight car content).



Marty





xv_corps
 

Tim said, "Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks."

And Andy answered, "Not so fast, Tim. For many years the "Milwaukee Journal" received newsprint in boxcars at a concrete unloading dock at the south end of the Milwaukee Road's Beer Line."

I just spoke this week to a man who worked the IC's Amboy District from 1948 on into the 80's. Although he didn't specify where it came from, he was quick to point out that the Bloomington (Illinois)daily newspaper (The Pantagragh)used to drive its trucks up to the boxcars spotted on the house track in order to pick up rolls of paper for their printing presses.

Brad Hanner


geodyssey <riverob@...>
 

Isn't there a huge rail-served Times printing plant in Santa Ana or Costa Mesa, visible just north of the I-405?

When I was switching on the UP back in the late 70s-early 80s, a midnight job would take four 100-ton boxcars of paper three or four times a week to a Times printing plant via a switchback behind the DART warehouse. I think this plant printed phone books. An NW2 with a running start and sanding would not always be able to push two cars up the steep grade. Back up and take another run...

Rob Simpson

--- In STMFC@..., "Paul" <buygone@...> wrote:

Tim:



Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.



Paul C. Koehler