Air Hoses


Paul Lyons
 

Maybe six to nine months ago Hi-Tech Details first introduced their rubber HO scale freight car air hoses. I was really high on this product with a number of posts to the group about how good they looked on my models. However, Denny Anspach threw a bit of a damper on things when he quickly pointed out that they were not the correct AAR 22" in length for our era freight cars.

I shared Dr Denny's email with my friend Jim Booth at Hi-Tech Models. I ask Jim if he would correct the issue, and he said he would, but would not commit to a timeframe. Well, the time is NOW! The "corrected" air hoses are back and they are better than ever. Jim has not only corrected the length of the hose, but has also given us three different arrangements to chose from. Just the the rubber hose (#6038), which I now use with the PSC bracket; the rubber hose with a rubber mounting bracket (#6039); and best of all, the rubber hose with a brass bracket (different than the PSC one) into which to mount the hose. These are really NICE!!

Check them out at the Hy-Tech web site and buy a bunch as a way of thanking a manufacturer who listens to the modeler's needs.

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA


asychis@...
 

Paul,

Is it Hi-Tech or Hy-Tech?

Jerry Michels


Rich C
 

Hi-Tech Details
 
http://www.hitechdetails.com/
 
Rich Christie

--- On Thu, 1/28/10, asychis@aol.com <asychis@aol.com> wrote:


From: asychis@aol.com <asychis@aol.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re:Air Hoses
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 7:53 AM


 



Paul,

Is it Hi-Tech or Hy-Tech?

Jerry Michels

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

Hi-Tech Details

http://www.hitechdetails.com/

Rich Christie
The only problem I see is that due to the expense of building a mold that would put the angle cock and hose at the proper angle to the bracket, neither of the hoses w/brackets do so. Looks like the hoses w/o brackets are the way to go.

Dennis


pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Dennis, the hoses are positionable in the set with the brass hangers and eyelets. How widely used was the style of hanger HTD modeled? It looks like a forged piece - very nicely done - but was that more common than than ones made of bent flat plate?

(It does seem silly to be quibbling over differences that can barely be seen without magnification!)

Tom Madden

The only problem I see is that due to the expense of building a mold that would put the angle cock and hose at the proper angle to the bracket, neither of the hoses w/brackets do so. Looks like the hoses w/o brackets are the way to go.

Dennis


Rich C
 

I agree Dennis, however the bracket may be more suitable for the modern cars.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Thu, 1/28/10, soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com> wrote:


From: soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re:Air Hoses
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 8:17 AM


 





--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

Hi-Tech Details

http://www.hitechde tails.com/

Rich Christie
The only problem I see is that due to the expense of building a mold that would put the angle cock and hose at the proper angle to the bracket, neither of the hoses w/brackets do so. Looks like the hoses w/o brackets are the way to go.

Dennis











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Jim Pickett
 

Evidently High Tech Details has made as much money as they want to and are uninterested in helping past customers. I ordered several sets of their passenger car diaphragms only to find upon reading the instructions that if I intended to install them on Walthers cars I needed an extra part. Nothing in the instructions told me how to obtain that part. I E-mailed them asking specifically what the part was and how to obtain it. Their curt reply was to look in the catalog.  Naturally no such part was listed, at least not defining it as the part I needed for a Walthers conversion. I have since written four more times, the last two times mentioning that I could not continue as a customer if I didn't get a reply. Naturally, no reply. If this company, High Tech Details, is so rude and inconsiderate of it's customers I would consider not doing business with them - at least not if you expect customer service in the future.


Jim Pickett

--- On Thu, 1/28/10, pullmanboss <tgmadden@worldnet.att.net> wrote:


From: pullmanboss <tgmadden@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [STMFC] Re:Air Hoses
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 10:13 AM


 



Dennis, the hoses are positionable in the set with the brass hangers and eyelets. How widely used was the style of hanger HTD modeled? It looks like a forged piece - very nicely done - but was that more common than than ones made of bent flat plate?

(It does seem silly to be quibbling over differences that can barely be seen without magnification! )

Tom Madden

The only problem I see is that due to the expense of building a mold that would put the angle cock and hose at the proper angle to the bracket, neither of the hoses w/brackets do so. Looks like the hoses w/o brackets are the way to go.

Dennis


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pullmanboss" <tgmadden@...> wrote:

Dennis, the hoses are positionable in the set with the brass hangers and eyelets. How widely used was the style of hanger HTD modeled? It looks like a forged piece - very nicely done - but was that more common than than ones made of bent flat plate?

(It does seem silly to be quibbling over differences that can barely be seen without magnification!)

Tom Madden
Tom,

So I see... it took about three minutes on a DSL connection for the animation to get to that point. Maybe someone should clue him in to show the correct arrangement in the lead-in graphic?

I don't know what he used for a prototype for the forging... my vote is flat plate is more common.

Dennis


Tim O'Connor
 

The angle appears to be about 15-20 degrees, is that right?

The style of bracket looks exactly like the Branchline airhoses
in their Blueprint series kits, and I'm pretty sure those also
are not angled. I'm not sure you'd really want the angle unless
you cut off the Kadee trip pins.

I have photos of B&O M-26a & M-26d with this type of bracket. The
old Kadee bracket (which does have the offset angle) seems to be
much more rare on prototype cars.

Tim O'Connor

At 1/28/2010 10:13 AM Thursday, you wrote:
Dennis, the hoses are positionable in the set with the brass hangers and eyelets. How widely used was the style of hanger HTD modeled? It looks like a forged piece - very nicely done - but was that more common than than ones made of bent flat plate?

(It does seem silly to be quibbling over differences that can barely be seen without magnification!)

Tom Madden


Tim O'Connor
 

I don't know what he used for a prototype for the forging... my vote
is flat plate is more common. Dennis

I agree with you there Dennis... however a small file can be used
to remove the rivets and other casting detail if it really matters.
I'm more interested in durability myself... This is a detail area
(like draft gear, and trucks) where the exact part we need is
usually not available.

Tim O'Connor


switchengines <jrs060@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:

The only problem I see is that due to the expense of building a mold that would put the angle cock and hose at the proper angle to the bracket, neither of the hoses w/brackets do so. Looks like the hoses w/o brackets are the way to go.

Dennis
Well, there are a few other problems with this ingenious product. First the angle
cock valve has the new style stamped handle, and not the old cast type that was
manufactured to a different shape. Then there is also a problem with the clamps
that were used to attach the hose itself to the spigots on the valve and gladhand.
All through the steam era and into the 1970's they used bolted clamps at the top
and bottom of the hose, this was later changed to a metal bands----the Hi-Tech
parts have the new wide metal clamp bands commonly found on hoses today.
For my two cents worth on this--- it's a great idea, and could be a sure winner
product, but it's still got detail problems for the steam era modeler.

Happiness, Jerry Stewart

In a very cold Woodstock, Illinois


Paul Lyons
 

Come on Dennis, lightened up! A year ago we had NO bracket castings and all the air hoses on the market would snap off when hit, including the brass ones. A most distrubing issue for those of us really trying to model prototypical freight cars. I find it hard to believe that the hose angle not being prototypical correct in the bracket really bothers you that much, when cast on grab irons do not. I know, I know, that is a commercial business decision--who knows this might be the same. The point of my original post was that we should be thankful that a manufacturer is willing to go back and correct an obvious error after it was pointed out by a member of this list. That to me, shows a commitment to want to get it right. and help advance the hobby. Maybe they did not get it it perfect, few of us ever do, but it is far better than what we had, which was exactly NOTHING!

I have no commercial interest in this project!

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@mchsi.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 28, 2010 9:36 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re:Air Hoses






--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pullmanboss" <tgmadden@...> wrote:

Dennis, the hoses are positionable in the set with the brass hangers and eyelets. How widely used was the style of hanger HTD modeled? It looks like a forged piece - very nicely done - but was that more common than than ones made of bent flat plate?

(It does seem silly to be quibbling over differences that can barely be seen without magnification!)

Tom Madden
Tom,

So I see... it took about three minutes on a DSL connection for the animation to get to that point. Maybe someone should clue him in to show the correct arrangement in the lead-in graphic?

I don't know what he used for a prototype for the forging... my vote is flat plate is more common.

Dennis


Bill Welch
 

Paul, to be prototypically correct, should not these hoses be connected to each other when cars are coupled to each other?

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cobrapsl@... wrote:


Come on Dennis, lightened up! A year ago we had NO bracket castings and all the air hoses on the market would snap off when hit, including the brass ones. A most distrubing issue for those of us really trying to model prototypical freight cars. I find it hard to believe that the hose angle not being prototypical correct in the bracket really bothers you that much, when cast on grab irons do not. I know, I know, that is a commercial business decision--who knows this might be the same. The point of my original post was that we should be thankful that a manufacturer is willing to go back and correct an obvious error after it was pointed out by a member of this list. That to me, shows a commitment to want to get it right. and help advance the hobby. Maybe they did not get it it perfect, few of us ever do, but it is far better than what we had, which was exactly NOTHING!

I have no commercial interest in this project!

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA






-----Original Message-----
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 28, 2010 9:36 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re:Air Hoses






--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pullmanboss" <tgmadden@> wrote:

Dennis, the hoses are positionable in the set with the brass hangers and eyelets. How widely used was the style of hanger HTD modeled? It looks like a forged piece - very nicely done - but was that more common than than ones made of bent flat plate?

(It does seem silly to be quibbling over differences that can barely be seen without magnification!)

Tom Madden
Tom,

So I see... it took about three minutes on a DSL connection for the animation to get to that point. Maybe someone should clue him in to show the correct arrangement in the lead-in graphic?

I don't know what he used for a prototype for the forging... my vote is flat plate is more common.

Dennis







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

The correct angle is 30 degrees.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

The angle appears to be about 15-20 degrees, is that right?

The style of bracket looks exactly like the Branchline airhoses
in their Blueprint series kits, and I'm pretty sure those also
are not angled. I'm not sure you'd really want the angle unless
you cut off the Kadee trip pins.

I have photos of B&O M-26a & M-26d with this type of bracket. The
old Kadee bracket (which does have the offset angle) seems to be
much more rare on prototype cars.

Tim O'Connor


At 1/28/2010 10:13 AM Thursday, you wrote:
Dennis, the hoses are positionable in the set with the brass hangers and eyelets. How widely used was the style of hanger HTD modeled? It looks like a forged piece - very nicely done - but was that more common than than ones made of bent flat plate?

(It does seem silly to be quibbling over differences that can barely be seen without magnification!)

Tom Madden


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul, to be prototypically correct, should not these hoses be connected to each other when cars are coupled to each other.
Only if the train line carries air. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, cobrapsl@... wrote:


Come on Dennis, lightened up! A year ago we had NO bracket castings and all the air hoses on the market would snap off when hit, including the brass ones. A most distrubing issue for those of us really trying to model prototypical freight cars. I find it hard to believe that the hose angle not being prototypical correct in the bracket really bothers you that much, when cast on grab irons do not. I know, I know, that is a commercial business decision--who knows this might be the same.
Hey, I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. I'm sure it was a business decision... making a one piece part with the correct geometry would have been waaaay more expensive, so the part that was made serves the crowd that is happy to have a representation of a detail, even if it's not 100% correct, kinda like molded on grabs :-)

To Hi-Tech's credit, they also made the unadorned hose, and then went the extra mile and made a separate bracket so you can actually use it. No problem that they make the fancy forged bracket; PSC already makes the strap steel one. I was just pointing out that there is a reason why Hi-Tech makes the style with the separate bracket beyond the fact that the bracket is brass; it can also be mounted correctly.

Dennis


Eric Hansmann
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

The old Kadee bracket (which does have the offset angle) seems to be much more rare on prototype cars.
=======================


I was reviewing the RPCyc articles on the USRA SS and DS box cars a while back and focused on the end details. The DS cars are featured in RPCyc Volume 16, while the SS cars are in Volume 17.

RPCyc Volume 16, page 19 features a full page end view of a DS car, CB&Q 120500.

RPCyc Volume 17, page 27 features a full page end view of a SS car, NYP&N 3111.

These views offer a good look at hardware mounted on the car end. The air hose brackets are easy to see. While not exact, there is a similarity to the Kadee bracket.

I have not examined end images of the USRA composite gondola or twin hopper yet to see if a similar bracket was used.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Starting over in a new home:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <eric@...> wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:

The old Kadee bracket (which does have the offset angle) seems to be much more rare on prototype cars.
=======================

I have not examined end images of the USRA composite gondola or twin hopper yet to see if a similar bracket was used.

Eric
Drawings published in the 1922 Car Builder's Cyclopedia seem to indicate that they were. Bracketing the angle cock off the end of the center sill was pretty common during the WWI era, but later fell from favor.

I've uploaded a drawing of this bracket from the 1922 CBC:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Air%20hoses%20%26%20Anglecock%20Brackets/Cast%20Bracket.jpg

Also a drawing of a bracket used to hange the brake pipe from a wood end sill on earlier cars:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Air%20hoses%20%26%20Anglecock%20Brackets/Wood-End-Sill-Bracket.jpg

Dennis


Tim O'Connor
 

The Kadee bracket does not extend outwards as illustrated in the
prototype drawing. See http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page438.htm

I have never understood what the other Kadee 'bracket' or plate
is supposed to represent (upper left in the Kadee photo).

The Kadee part is nicely engineered, with a square post that
can only be inserted at the proper angle. But it's still very
fragile, like all styrene air hoses.

Tim O'Connor

Drawings published in the 1922 Car Builder's Cyclopedia seem to indicate that they were. Bracketing the angle cock off the end of the center sill was pretty common during the WWI era, but later fell from favor.

I've uploaded a drawing of this bracket from the 1922 CBC:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Air%20hoses%20%26%20Anglecock%20Brackets/Cast%20Bracket.jpg

Also a drawing of a bracket used to hange the brake pipe from a wood end sill on earlier cars:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Air%20hoses%20%26%20Anglecock%20Brackets/Wood-End-Sill-Bracket.jpg

Dennis


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


The Kadee bracket does not extend outwards as illustrated in the
prototype drawing. See http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page438.htm
Likely to keep the non-functional angle cock behind and clear of their wide swinging coupler head.


I have never understood what the other Kadee 'bracket' or plate
is supposed to represent (upper left in the Kadee photo).
I wonder if these parts weren't tooled in the fifties / early sixties for one of their logging car kits. I haven't seen one for years, but those were nice kits, although of non-interchange industrial equipment.

The biggest problem with the cast brackets illustrated in the CBC is they are meant to mount to a flange on the striker casting, a part that none of us model, indeed can't model, because the opening in the wide coupler boxes that have been standard invades the space where they would be. That's the main reason why the whole issue of air hoses has been ignored to date. Take a look at the two model photos that alternate on the Hi-Tech Details web page http://www.hitechdetails.com/FC_Details.html And you'll see that neither looks anything like the prototype in that area, and neither air hose is mounted in the proper location.

Dennis