Making Rivets


Paul Hillman
 

There was some recent discussion about Archer Rivets. They look like a great product, as applicable. I'm going to try and use them where I can.

But, has there ever been found / discussed, a method for making a few rivets "one at a time" using some kind of "resin" or something, that won't flatten-out with gravity?

Example: Create a hole / indention, and insert some kind of "resin" or something, which will not sink flat, but retain a peak to itself, and harden.

I've tried this before with a few different substances, but they always flatten-out too much.

This is necessary for repairing rivets on cast resin or plastic cars.

Any genius on this subject?

Paul Hillman


npin53
 

Tichy makes several sizes of rivets that come on a sprue. You cut each one off individually and can use styrene cement to attach them.

http://www.tichytraingroup.com/index.php?page=view_product.php&id=181&category=NBW+%26+Rivets

I have shaved a few off with a razor blade, wet the area that "needed" the rivet with Testors cement (the thin stuff in a glass bottle), licked the end of a toothpick, picked up the rivet head and then put it in the desired place.

Aaron

--- In STMFC@..., "behillman" <chris_hillman@...> wrote:

There was some recent discussion about Archer Rivets. They look like a great product, as applicable. I'm going to try and use them where I can.

But, has there ever been found / discussed, a method for making a few rivets "one at a time" using some kind of "resin" or something, that won't flatten-out with gravity?

Example: Create a hole / indention, and insert some kind of "resin" or something, which will not sink flat, but retain a peak to itself, and harden.

I've tried this before with a few different substances, but they always flatten-out too much.

This is necessary for repairing rivets on cast resin or plastic cars.

Any genius on this subject?

Paul Hillman


Rich C
 

I have used the thicker gel CA's before for rivets. As long as it is just a few. I use .008 wire to apply the CA.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Tue, 3/9/10, Aaron Gjermundson <npin53@...> wrote:


From: Aaron Gjermundson <npin53@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Making Rivets
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 7:29 PM


 



Tichy makes several sizes of rivets that come on a sprue. You cut each one off individually and can use styrene cement to attach them.

http://www.tichytra ingroup.com/ index.php? page=view_ product.php& id=181&category= NBW+%26+Rivets

I have shaved a few off with a razor blade, wet the area that "needed" the rivet with Testors cement (the thin stuff in a glass bottle), licked the end of a toothpick, picked up the rivet head and then put it in the desired place.

Aaron

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "behillman" <chris_hillman@ ...> wrote:

There was some recent discussion about Archer Rivets. They look like a great product, as applicable. I'm going to try and use them where I can.

But, has there ever been found / discussed, a method for making a few rivets "one at a time" using some kind of "resin" or something, that won't flatten-out with gravity?

Example: Create a hole / indention, and insert some kind of "resin" or something, which will not sink flat, but retain a peak to itself, and harden.

I've tried this before with a few different substances, but they always flatten-out too much.

This is necessary for repairing rivets on cast resin or plastic cars.

Any genius on this subject?

Paul Hillman










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

True, but the smallest is .020" -- Archer makes them down to about
.007" (5/8" in HO scale)

Tim O'Connor

At 3/9/2010 08:29 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
Tichy makes several sizes of rivets that come on a sprue. You cut each one off individually and can use styrene cement to attach them.
Aaron


npin53
 

I know, it was all I had before the Archer rivets came out other than shaving them off of a donor car.

Aaron

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


True, but the smallest is .020" -- Archer makes them down to about
.007" (5/8" in HO scale)

Tim O'Connor



At 3/9/2010 08:29 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
Tichy makes several sizes of rivets that come on a sprue. You cut each one off individually and can use styrene cement to attach them.
Aaron


laserhriz
 

Paul,
 
Why not make gravity work for you and turn it upside down to cure?
 
Dennis Sautters

--- On Tue, 3/9/10, behillman <chris_hillman@...> wrote:


From: behillman <chris_hillman@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Making Rivets
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 7:41 PM


 



There was some recent discussion about Archer Rivets. They look like a great product, as applicable. I'm going to try and use them where I can.

But, has there ever been found / discussed, a method for making a few rivets "one at a time" using some kind of "resin" or something, that won't flatten-out with gravity?

Example: Create a hole / indention, and insert some kind of "resin" or something, which will not sink flat, but retain a peak to itself, and harden.

I've tried this before with a few different substances, but they always flatten-out too much.

This is necessary for repairing rivets on cast resin or plastic cars.

Any genius on this subject?

Paul Hillman











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bruce Smith
 

--- On Tue, 3/9/10, behillman <chris_hillman@...> wrote:
There was some recent discussion about Archer Rivets. They look like a great product, as applicable. I'm going to try and use them where I can.
But, has there ever been found / discussed, a method for making a few rivets "one at a time" using some kind of "resin" or something, that won't flatten-out with gravity?
Paul,

I'm puzzled as to why you wouldn't use Archer for this purpose? I cut single rivets off of Archer strips and use them all the time. Much easier than worrying about making rivets yourself!

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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reporterllc
 

If I need to just put down one, two or three small Archer rivets in a spot, I find it difficult to handle, dip and slide the very small decal section with the normal method, so I came up with another one for that:

I put a small puddle of decal set in the location where the spot of rivets are going. (Make sure the other nearby rivets have set.) Then I place the small decal section next to that spot and put some decal set on top of that. I wait a few seconds and finally, I slide the one, two, three rivet film section into position onto the puddle with a small paint brush or pointed tooth pick and let it set. It works for me. This can also come in handy if you accidentally knock just a few rivets off and need to replace them. Note I do not soak that small section in water but only use the decal setting solution.

Incidentally, I use the usual method for applying Archer decals when doing larger strips but do put on the decal set in the home spot first and place the decal strip on top. I may apply more decal set on top of the decal if necessary. Note that some manufacturers provide two strengths of decal set, one for the normal application and one a bit stronger for stubborn applications. I have always used the normal strength version with the Archer rivets. (I use the Micro Scale product.)

The Archer rivets are a great product but my main beef is that little sheet is expensive and he gives you different spacing on the same sheet. So if you need a lot of one spacing, you have to buy more of those expensive sheets. I had to by three of these for one passenger car! My other beef is that if I need to cut and use just one narrow strip of small rivets, that narrow strip is very fragile. If I could get the spacing btw rows for my car, that would let me cut a wider strip with more than one row in it, and that would obviously be less fragile. But they look great and work well for the most part. Looking at them under magnification they are shaped just like the real thing! Perhaps over time he'll provide more of what we need. I understand he is open to using artwork from those that want to contribute their time.

Another alternative is drilling holes in your car sides and adding molded rivets from Tichy. However that seems a bit tedious compared to the decals or using some kind of embossing method.

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Paul Hillman
 

Thanks for all of the replies about rivets & "Archer Rivets".

After my re-perusing the Archer site & their products, I believe I have been convinced of their virtues. My initial surprise was at the cost of the decal sheets, but if their viability is excellent, as stated by the several experienced members of this group, then their cost is acceptable. Their application & usage, as shown in the Tom Madden photos, and others, is superb. I think they will indeed work for my intended, needed applications.

However, I'd better, very carefully, measure and determine what spacing and size that I need. I need, really, only a few for my current project. The left-overs, I would hope could be used further down the (rail) road.

I am also going to experiment though with the, thick-ACC-Gel / upside-down anti-gravity method, for producing a one-or-two-rivet method.

Paul Hillman

----- Original Message -----
From: wabash2813<mailto:reporterllc@...>
To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 1:09 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Making Rivets




If I need to just put down one, two or three small Archer rivets in a spot, I find it difficult to handle, dip and slide the very small decal section with the normal method, so I came up with another one for that:

I put a small puddle of decal set in the location where the spot of rivets are going. (Make sure the other nearby rivets have set.) Then I place the small decal section next to that spot and put some decal set on top of that. I wait a few seconds and finally, I slide the one, two, three rivet film section into position onto the puddle with a small paint brush or pointed tooth pick and let it set. It works for me. This can also come in handy if you accidentally knock just a few rivets off and need to replace them. Note I do not soak that small section in water but only use the decal setting solution.

Incidentally, I use the usual method for applying Archer decals when doing larger strips but do put on the decal set in the home spot first and place the decal strip on top. I may apply more decal set on top of the decal if necessary. Note that some manufacturers provide two strengths of decal set, one for the normal application and one a bit stronger for stubborn applications. I have always used the normal strength version with the Archer rivets. (I use the Micro Scale product.)

The Archer rivets are a great product but my main beef is that little sheet is expensive and he gives you different spacing on the same sheet. So if you need a lot of one spacing, you have to buy more of those expensive sheets. I had to by three of these for one passenger car! My other beef is that if I need to cut and use just one narrow strip of small rivets, that narrow strip is very fragile. If I could get the spacing btw rows for my car, that would let me cut a wider strip with more than one row in it, and that would obviously be less fragile. But they look great and work well for the most part. Looking at them under magnification they are shaped just like the real thing! Perhaps over time he'll provide more of what we need. I understand he is open to using artwork from those that want to contribute their time.

Another alternative is drilling holes in your car sides and adding molded rivets from Tichy. However that seems a bit tedious compared to the decals or using some kind of embossing method.

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Paul Hillman wrote:

Thanks for all of the replies about rivets & "Archer Rivets".

After my re-perusing the Archer site & their products, I believe I have been convinced of their virtues. My initial surprise was at the cost of the decal sheets, but if their viability is excellent, as stated by the several experienced members of this group, then their cost is acceptable.
They are expensive to make. I've been told they are made using the same technology/equipment the electronics industry uses to apply microdroplets of conductive adhesive for bonding integrated circuits. The rivets are jetted onto the film, not screened on en masse. I don't know whether it's a done by rows, like an ink jet printer, or individually, by traversing the head or substrate. I'm sure it's a fast process, but it's not a mass process.

Tom Madden


Tim O'Connor
 

For onesey-twosey rivets, the time honored Athearn donor rivet is
quite fast, easy, and very cheap. The main problem has always been
to obtain a consistent size, and to create a perfectly spaced line
of rivets. That's where Archer shines!

Tim O'Connor

I am also going to experiment though with the, thick-ACC-Gel / upside-down anti-gravity method, for producing a one-or-two-rivet method.

Paul Hillman


Aley, Jeff A
 

Tom,

This does not surprise me; in fact, when I first heard about these, I immediately thought of the epoxy-dispensing robots in our (Intel's) factories. In our case, the machine (I do not know the mfr) was loaded with a specially-made syringe of epoxy. The head of the machine would move, in a manner similar to the X-Y pen plotters, and dispense a controlled amount of epoxy as it went (either lines of epoxy, or individual dots, as required).

BTW, current machines are NOT slow. I just Googled "die attach" and one company makes a machine that dispenses the epoxy and places the computer chip (called a "die") at a rate of 18,000 units per hour (I infer that it processes several in parallel).

Regards,

-Jeff




From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of pullmanboss
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 7:33 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Making Rivets



They are expensive to make. I've been told they are made using the same technology/equipment the electronics industry uses to apply microdroplets of conductive adhesive for bonding integrated circuits. The rivets are jetted onto the film, not screened on en masse. I don't know whether it's a done by rows, like an ink jet printer, or individually, by traversing the head or substrate. I'm sure it's a fast process, but it's not a mass process.

Tom Madden