I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59 ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on line somewhere:

IC 62600-62609
WAB 400-447
ATSF 90900-91191
CB&Q 94000-94099 (I doubt these were fishbelly)
CMStP&P 49000-49049
CRI&P 93000-93048
SLSW 85500-85549
SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

There's a photo of MILW 49042 in MM 5/99, p 39. It's a Pullman PS-4, and indeed has fishbelly side sills.

There's a photo of SP 79825 in TS CYC 17, p 197 (from the '43 CBC). This car, too, has fishbelly side sills.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

On Apr 1, 2010, at 8:45 PM, richtownsend@... wrote:

I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them
on line somewhere:

IC 62600-62609
WAB 400-447
ATSF 90900-91191
CB&Q 94000-94099 (I doubt these were fishbelly)
CMStP&P 49000-49049
CRI&P 93000-93048
SLSW 85500-85549
SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121

Rich, the Santa Fe 90900-91191 series were Ft-T and Ft-U class cars
with fishbelly side and center sills and 70 tons nominal capacity
built by General American in 1940-1941. The two classes were
identical except for trucks, which were ASF self-aligning spring-
plankless on the Ft-Ts and National B-1 on the Ft-Us. I'll send you
a couple of photos off-list.

Richard Hendrickson

Richard Townsendt wrote:

I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59 ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121

Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Rock Island 93000 - 93048 were built by the RI in 1956 and were fishbelly
sides. They had 17 stake pockets with one in the center. There were McLean
Fogg strap anchors between the stake pockets.



Actually, there was a 50th car, 93049, which had hinged bulkheads that were
nailable steel so the car could be converted between a straight flat and a
bulkhead car. By 1962 that feature had been removed.



Regards,

Steve Hile



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
richtownsend@...
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 10:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars






I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can anyone
tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59 ORER have such
sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on line somewhere:

IC 62600-62609
WAB 400-447
ATSF 90900-91191
CB&Q 94000-94099 (I doubt these were fishbelly)
CMStP&P 49000-49049
CRI&P 93000-93048
SLSW 85500-85549
SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

Rich,
I have been unable to locate a photo of IC 62600 - 62609. I did find these 60 foot cars in an IC freight car diagram book. From the illustration they appear to be fishbelly cars. The dimensions show a clearance of 13 1/2 inches at the bottom of the fishbelly side so I think the drawing is correct.

I can scan the page and email it to you if you need it.

Jeff White
Alma, IL

richtownsend@... wrote:

Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Bill at Red Caboose informed me that he intends to run some SP F-70-7 flat car KITS this summer, with Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks. These kits have been hard to get the last few years. No word about their future availability as RTR from Intermountain (I did not ask).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:20:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars



Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:

I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121

Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think the new Kadee 70 ton Barber S-2-B is almost exactly right
for the SP flats (the prototype had S-2-A-0 trucks, whatever those
were). The Red Caboose Barber S-2-A is a decent model too, as long
as you replace the wheels with Reboxx.

Tim O'Connor

Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody else think?

Paul C. Koehler

All:



I guess I should have spell checked my post before hitting send. Here is
what it should have said. "Did Bill say whether or not they would have
plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood
grain does not scale down on the wood decks and the plastic ones look a 100%
better. What does everybody else think?



Paul C. Koehler






_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
buygonet
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 60-foot flat cars





Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure
hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the
wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody
else think?

Paul C. Koehler

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com, Andy Carlson
<midcentury@...> wrote:

Bill at Red Caboose informed me that he intends to run some SP F-70-7 flat

car KITS this summer, with Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks. These kits have
been hard to get the last few years. No word about their future availability
as RTR from Intermountain (I did not ask).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:20:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars



Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:

I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121

Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson

Paul, I agree with you almost 100% (I, by nature, never agree with anyone 100%!). I placed my order with Bill for only plastic deck versions, though Bill did not mention what version(s) would be available. I will ask,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: buygonet <buygone@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 8:32:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 60-foot flat cars


Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody else think?

Paul C. Koehler

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Andy Carlson <midcentury@ ...> wrote:

Bill at Red Caboose informed me that he intends to run some SP F-70-7 flat car KITS this summer, with Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks. These kits have been hard to get the last few years. No word about their future availability as RTR from Intermountain (I did not ask).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





____________ _________ _________ __
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:20:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars



Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:

I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121

Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul Koehler wrote:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the wood decks and the plastic ones look a 100% better. What does everybody else think?

Full agreement. I've struggled to try and weather "real" wood convincingly (and hide the huge grain), which I think is tough in HO scale. By comparison, I believe I can get a realistic darkening and grayness easily on a plastic deck, along with distressing it without creating immense "splinters" (which they would be if HO).

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompson@...

On Apr 22, 2010, at 10:32 PM, buygonet wrote:

Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody else think?

Paul C. Koehler

Paul,

This is one of those subjects that stirs up passions <VBG>. Given my propensity to model WWII era loads, I have a fair number of open top cars where the prototype had wood decks and the models have about an even mix of wood and plastic/resin decks (and even a brass deck or two). At events such as Cocoa Beach and Naperville, the decks that get the compliments are the wood decks. I prefer board by board construction, as it does not leave the obvious gaps between boards that either laser cutting or plastic/brass decks have to convey the impression of boards and prestaining gives some variation in color. I always sand the boards with 300 grit to remove as much visible grain as possible and I discard pieces with grain that is too obvious.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
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Paul--

Yes and no. Depends on how weathered a flat car deck you're modelling. Nothing wrong with the work on some better plastic STMFC's.

But, I personally use the Jack Work method to stain wood for models--1 part Fiebing's leather dye

http://www.fiebing.com/Dyes.aspx

to 30 parts rubbing alcohol--more alcohol=lighter stain--less alcohol==darker stain. I find this to be a good start for weathering all stripwood.

Wood flatcar decks AFAIK were creosoted lumber. So the darkness of the creosote will disguise coarse wood grain in stripwood on a model. Though the better quality stuff like Mt. Albert Scale Lumber has a very fine grain.

I'm very partial to board-by-board wood decking on model flatcars. Easy to stain and distress to model heavy wear on a flatcar deck. I think that the disdain for wood model flatcar decks has been brought on by those laser-cut-from-marine-plywood things that adorn some models.

Steve Lucas.

On Apr 23, 2010, at 8:59 AM, Steve Lucas wrote:

Wood flatcar decks AFAIK were creosoted lumber.

Steve,

Um, "Not Exactly". We've had this discussion before, and the answer is that it depends on the railroad. For example, the PRR used untreated OAK for flat car decks. In the Steam era, this was considered a cheap hardwood and was readily available. OTOH, the ATSF used creosoted pine (that was the wood that was most available to them). The neat part about this is that your flat car decks should reflect this and their appearance should vary because of it. So, for my IM ATSF flat car, which is relatively new, I used a pretty dark brown stain to duplicate the creosote, while a new PRR flat car deck (or individual board) should be a lighter color.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
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Good morning Group,

I have found that following the deck painting instructions included with the Tichy flatcar produces one of the better looking styrene "wood" decks that I have seen. Or done.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Apr 23, 2010, at 6:20 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:

On Apr 22, 2010, at 10:32 PM, buygonet wrote:

Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks?
I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not
scale down on the wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000%
better. What does everybody else think?

Paul C. Koehler

Paul,

This is one of those subjects that stirs up passions <VBG>. Given my
propensity to model WWII era loads, I have a fair number of open top
cars where the prototype had wood decks and the models have about an
even mix of wood and plastic/resin decks (and even a brass deck or
two). At events such as Cocoa Beach and Naperville, the decks that
get the compliments are the wood decks. I prefer board by board
construction, as it does not leave the obvious gaps between boards
that either laser cutting or plastic/brass decks have to convey the
impression of boards and prestaining gives some variation in color.
I always sand the boards with 300 grit to remove as much visible
grain as possible and I discard pieces with grain that is too obvious.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve:



You are correct in what you say. In the case of commercially available
models, our choice is either the laser-cut from marine-plywood or plastic.
If that's your choice which would you take.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Steve Lucas
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 6:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 60-foot flat cars





Paul--

Yes and no. Depends on how weathered a flat car deck you're modelling.
Nothing wrong with the work on some better plastic STMFC's.

But, I personally use the Jack Work method to stain wood for models--1 part
Fiebing's leather dye

http://www.fiebing. <http://www.fiebing.com/Dyes.aspx> com/Dyes.aspx

to 30 parts rubbing alcohol--more alcohol=lighter stain--less
alcohol==darker stain. I find this to be a good start for weathering all
stripwood.

Wood flatcar decks AFAIK were creosoted lumber. So the darkness of the
creosote will disguise coarse wood grain in stripwood on a model. Though the
better quality stuff like Mt. Albert Scale Lumber has a very fine grain.

I'm very partial to board-by-board wood decking on model flatcars. Easy to
stain and distress to model heavy wear on a flatcar deck. I think that the
disdain for wood model flatcar decks has been brought on by those
laser-cut-from-marine-plywood things that adorn some models.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com, "buygonet"
<buygone@...> wrote:

Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure

hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the
wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody
else think?

Paul C. Koehler

Steve Lucas wrote:

Wood flatcar decks AFAIK were creosoted lumber.

Depends on the railroad, Steve. To name just one railroad with a really big flat car fleet, SP used treated but NOT creosoted wood. Photos show a light wood color.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Once again, it's been proven that I learn something new every day!

Paying attention to a particular road's practice for treating (or not treating) wood used for its flatcar decks is called for.

Steve Lucas.