Date
1 - 15 of 15
New York Central 765-B
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Mark
I recently purchased a built intermountain kit. NYC 40' PS-1 boxcar #167646 from lot 765-B.
Any suggestions on trucks, roof walk, steps, etc! Thanks for any help. Mark Morgan |
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Ed Hawkins
On May 12, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Mark M wrote:
recently purchased a built intermountain kit. NYC 40' PS-1 boxcarMark, As far as I have been able to determine, NYC's PS-1 box cars typically came with either Universal or Miner hand brakes and Apex Tri-Lok running boards and brake steps. I do not know with any degree of certainty what hand brake(s) came on the Lot 765-B series, and I have not found any definitive photos. A photo of NYC 167299 (albeit a small image) is on page 99 of the 1949/51 Car Builders' Cyclopedia. An in-service photo of NYC 167210 from the same series shows the car rode on Barber S-2-A trucks. However, this photo is a broadside and does not show the hand brake. In case you aren't aware and for what it may be worth to you, the NYC Lot 765-B cars in series 167000-167999 were built in 1948. This means that the InterMountain model (patterned after prototype PS-1 box cars built 1954 and later) has a number of characteristics that are incorrect for the NYC Lot 765-B cars, including the wrong PS-1 ends (cars built in 1948 lacked the six rectangles at the peak and had a different grab arrangement on the right side of the end), the wrong PS-1 roof (panels closest to the ends were flat), and the bolster tabs are too wide. The prototype cars had 7-panel Superior doors, which I don't know if the model comes with or not. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Guys;
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I looked into this issue when I was trying to figure out what to do on both an early NYC PS-1 and an early P&WV PS-1 (both 1948 models, I think). Ed was very helpful in that regard, too! I also got the Ed Kaminski Pullman-Std book out and looked at the pics of early PS-1's. I have since partially finished the P&WV model (I used a Kadee), and here is what I did: 1) Pop off running board, doors, end ladders and details, and grabs. 2) Sanded down end panel roof ribs to create flat panels on 4 end roof panels. Put tape over panel caps and use sanding sticks on "ribs". 3) Replace doors with Superior type 7-panel. 4) Cut off portion of end ladder that is too wide, and replace with new right stile that is continuous (this was very easy; let me know if you want details) 5) reshape bolster tabs to match those in photo. The Late PS-1 has wide tabs, the early ones are narrower and have a little bit of a "hat" shape. 6) re-shape end ribs to be rounder, both on ends and top and bottom edges. I did this with a sanding stick. 7) replace right end grab with one mounted on the left with a triangular (peaked) strap that clears the rib, in the appropriate location. 8) Replace brake with Equipco (P&WV used almost nothing else). I did not investigate the underframe or u/f mounting of brake gear, as I had no details on that, and will end up running the car 100% of the time right side up (sad attempt at humor). It is not a horrible bash, unlike others. And there are both Speedwitch decals for the early, and Microscale decals, or Century green, makes the issues of decals minimal. BTW, there are other lots of NYC cars (176XXX series?) that have the later features. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Ed Hawkins Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:28 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central 765-B On May 12, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Mark M wrote: recently purchased a built intermountain kit. NYC 40' PS-1 boxcarMark, As far as I have been able to determine, NYC's PS-1 box cars typically came with either Universal or Miner hand brakes and Apex Tri-Lok running boards and brake steps. I do not know with any degree of certainty what hand brake(s) came on the Lot 765-B series, and I have not found any definitive photos. A photo of NYC 167299 (albeit a small image) is on page 99 of the 1949/51 Car Builders' Cyclopedia. An in-service photo of NYC 167210 from the same series shows the car rode on Barber S-2-A trucks. However, this photo is a broadside and does not show the hand brake. In case you aren't aware and for what it may be worth to you, the NYC Lot 765-B cars in series 167000-167999 were built in 1948. This means that the InterMountain model (patterned after prototype PS-1 box cars built 1954 and later) has a number of characteristics that are incorrect for the NYC Lot 765-B cars, including the wrong PS-1 ends (cars built in 1948 lacked the six rectangles at the peak and had a different grab arrangement on the right side of the end), the wrong PS-1 roof (panels closest to the ends were flat), and the bolster tabs are too wide. The prototype cars had 7-panel Superior doors, which I don't know if the model comes with or not. Regards, Ed Hawkins [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Clark Propst
Some of the early PS1s had 'standard' style corner steps. A tap above/across the step, all steps alike.
Clark Propst |
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David Sieber
Mark,
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The PS-1 table on the Steam Freight Cars website confirms that this lot had 6-foot 7-panel Superior doors and Barber S-2-A trucks. It shows the handbrake was Miner - but with an asterisk, indicating confirmation from a photo, not conclusive documentation for the entire lot - so other handbrakes may have been applied to a portion of the lot. Since Intermountain PS-1 kits come with an incorrect early Ajax brakewheel, I'd suggest the Miner handbrake from the available info. However, as Ed Hawkins notes, there are a number of details about the Intermountain car that could be changed to more accurately model an early PS-1. See Ted Culotta's article Essential Freight Cars #40 in RMC Jan 08, plus the Pat Wider/Ed Hawkins article in RP Cyc #1 on Riveted 40' PS-1 Box Cars. Don't let that title fool you; the RP Cyc article gives timelines for changes in identifiable features of early PS-1s: ends, roofs, underframes, bolster tabs, stirrup steps, etc. If you choose to make those modifications, you'll have a car that is accurate and definitely not like everyone else's Intermountain car. Enjoy, Dave Sieber, Reno NV --- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Clark is right. I also replaced those wrong steps with A-Line's.
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Thanks! Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of rockroll50401 Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:49 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: New York Central 765-B Some of the early PS1s had 'standard' style corner steps. A tap above/across the step, all steps alike. Clark Propst |
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James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
Mark,
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Stan Rydarowicz makes the roof, and perhaps the ends; see Jim Hayes web page http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/stanparts.pdf Jim Brewer Glenwood MD ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:27:41 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central 765-B On May 12, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Mark M wrote: recently purchased a built intermountain kit. NYC 40' PS-1 boxcarMark, As far as I have been able to determine, NYC's PS-1 box cars typically came with either Universal or Miner hand brakes and Apex Tri-Lok running boards and brake steps. I do not know with any degree of certainty what hand brake(s) came on the Lot 765-B series, and I have not found any definitive photos. A photo of NYC 167299 (albeit a small image) is on page 99 of the 1949/51 Car Builders' Cyclopedia. An in-service photo of NYC 167210 from the same series shows the car rode on Barber S-2-A trucks. However, this photo is a broadside and does not show the hand brake. In case you aren't aware and for what it may be worth to you, the NYC Lot 765-B cars in series 167000-167999 were built in 1948. This means that the InterMountain model (patterned after prototype PS-1 box cars built 1954 and later) has a number of characteristics that are incorrect for the NYC Lot 765-B cars, including the wrong PS-1 ends (cars built in 1948 lacked the six rectangles at the peak and had a different grab arrangement on the right side of the end), the wrong PS-1 roof (panels closest to the ends were flat), and the bolster tabs are too wide. The prototype cars had 7-panel Superior doors, which I don't know if the model comes with or not. Regards, Ed Hawkins [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
Elden,
Thanks for P&WV PS-1 update. Now I can finally get mine finished correctly. Fred Freitas PRR Panhandle divn / 1953 ________________________________ From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" <elden.j.gatwood@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 10:14:19 AM Subject: RE: [STMFC] New York Central 765-B Guys; I looked into this issue when I was trying to figure out what to do on both an early NYC PS-1 and an early P&WV PS-1 (both 1948 models, I think). Ed was very helpful in that regard, too! I also got the Ed Kaminski Pullman-Std book out and looked at the pics of early PS-1's. I have since partially finished the P&WV model (I used a Kadee), and here is what I did: 1) Pop off running board, doors, end ladders and details, and grabs. 2) Sanded down end panel roof ribs to create flat panels on 4 end roof panels. Put tape over panel caps and use sanding sticks on "ribs". 3) Replace doors with Superior type 7-panel. 4) Cut off portion of end ladder that is too wide, and replace with new right stile that is continuous (this was very easy; let me know if you want details) 5) reshape bolster tabs to match those in photo. The Late PS-1 has wide tabs, the early ones are narrower and have a little bit of a "hat" shape. 6) re-shape end ribs to be rounder, both on ends and top and bottom edges. I did this with a sanding stick. 7) replace right end grab with one mounted on the left with a triangular (peaked) strap that clears the rib, in the appropriate location. 8) Replace brake with Equipco (P&WV used almost nothing else). I did not investigate the underframe or u/f mounting of brake gear, as I had no details on that, and will end up running the car 100% of the time right side up (sad attempt at humor). It is not a horrible bash, unlike others. And there are both Speedwitch decals for the early, and Microscale decals, or Century green, makes the issues of decals minimal. BTW, there are other lots of NYC cars (176XXX series?) that have the later features. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ed Hawkins Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:28 AM To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central 765-B On May 12, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Mark M wrote: recently purchased a built intermountain kit. NYC 40' PS-1 boxcarMark, As far as I have been able to determine, NYC's PS-1 box cars typically came with either Universal or Miner hand brakes and Apex Tri-Lok running boards and brake steps. I do not know with any degree of certainty what hand brake(s) came on the Lot 765-B series, and I have not found any definitive photos. A photo of NYC 167299 (albeit a small image) is on page 99 of the 1949/51 Car Builders' Cyclopedia. An in-service photo of NYC 167210 from the same series shows the car rode on Barber S-2-A trucks. However, this photo is a broadside and does not show the hand brake. In case you aren't aware and for what it may be worth to you, the NYC Lot 765-B cars in series 167000-167999 were built in 1948. This means that the InterMountain model (patterned after prototype PS-1 box cars built 1954 and later) has a number of characteristics that are incorrect for the NYC Lot 765-B cars, including the wrong PS-1 ends (cars built in 1948 lacked the six rectangles at the peak and had a different grab arrangement on the right side of the end), the wrong PS-1 roof (panels closest to the ends were flat), and the bolster tabs are too wide. The prototype cars had 7-panel Superior doors, which I don't know if the model comes with or not. Regards, Ed Hawkins [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Mark
Wish to thank: ED, Elden, Clark, Dave and James. Now to decide which direction to go!
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Sincerely, Mark Morgan --- In STMFC@..., "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:
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Terry Link
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...> recently purchased a built intermountain kit. NYC 40' PS-1 boxcarIn case you aren't aware and for what it may be worth to you, the NYC And don't forget that NYC PS-1 boxcars ( except the 25 cushioned underframe cars ) had poling pockets and towing lugs. Terry Link Bramalea, Ontario, Canada www.canadasouthern.com |
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Mark
Hello, Terry
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Would another class be like the Intermountain boxcar? Mark Morgan --- On Wed, 5/12/10, Terry Link <trlink@...> wrote:
From: Terry Link <trlink@...> Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central 765-B To: STMFC@... Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 5:48 PM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...> recently purchased a built intermountain kit. NYC 40' PS-1 boxcar #167646 from lot 765-B. In case you aren't aware and for what it may be worth to you, the NYC Lot 765-B cars in series 167000-167999 were built in 1948. This means that the InterMountain model (patterned after prototype PS-1 box cars built 1954 and later) has a number of characteristics that are incorrect for the NYC Lot 765-B cars, including the wrong PS-1 ends (cars built in 1948 lacked the six rectangles at the peak and had a different grab arrangement on the right side of the end), the wrong PS-1 roof (panels closest to the ends were flat), and the bolster tabs are too wide. The prototype cars had 7-panel Superior doors, which I don't know if the model comes with or not. And don't forget that NYC PS-1 boxcars ( except the 25 cushioned underframe cars ) had poling pockets and towing lugs. Terry Link Bramalea, Ontario, Canada www.canadasouthern.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Ed Hawkins
On May 12, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Mark Morgan wrote:
Would another class be like the Intermountain boxcar?Mark, Yes, "more like" the IM box car is very appropriate. NYC had 4 orders of PS-1 box cars delivered in 1950 through 1952. These are listed on the PS-1 roster, available for downloading from the STMFC web site. These prototype cars have the roof and ends as modeled by IM. Some NYC PS-1s had 7-panel Superior doors that could be used as well. As previously indicated the bolster tabs will require shortening and other details as pointed out by Terry. One can only wonder why IM produced the NYC model representing a car built in 1948 when there were numerous better choices. Oh well. Another option is the group of 25 NYC Pacemaker cars built in 1954 (Lot 848-B) having sides, ends, and roof that match the IM model. However, these cars were part of an order of 100 PS-1s built for various railroads with Pullman cushioned underframes. Just for interest I will throw out another idea. Kadee has offered accurate models of NYC PS-1 box cars including their catalogue number 4057 (Lot 842-B with 5-panel Superior doors) and 4079 (Lot 808-B with Youngstown doors). Both of these are sold out at Kadee, but you might be able to locate one somewhere or wait for a future release that Kadee will no doubt offer. These two models have black roofs and ends to represent the car cement applied to new NYC PS-1 box cars built from 1950 to 1952. They also come with the correct hand brake and Apex Tri-Lok running boards & brake steps. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Mark
Thank You. I took a bit of time last night(early morning) and put four cars into service, and alas the NYC car is not correct :-) . The Proto NKP car is built and shopped a NYC USRA coal car and a Bowser WM coal car.
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Mark Morgan --- On Wed, 5/12/10, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:
From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central 765-B To: STMFC@... Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 8:03 PM On May 12, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Mark Morgan wrote: Would another class be like the Intermountain boxcar? Mark Morgan Mark, Yes, "more like" the IM box car is very appropriate. NYC had 4 orders of PS-1 box cars delivered in 1950 through 1952. These are listed on the PS-1 roster, available for downloading from the STMFC web site. These prototype cars have the roof and ends as modeled by IM. Some NYC PS-1s had 7-panel Superior doors that could be used as well. As previously indicated the bolster tabs will require shortening and other details as pointed out by Terry. One can only wonder why IM produced the NYC model representing a car built in 1948 when there were numerous better choices. Oh well. Another option is the group of 25 NYC Pacemaker cars built in 1954 (Lot 848-B) having sides, ends, and roof that match the IM model. However, these cars were part of an order of 100 PS-1s built for various railroads with Pullman cushioned underframes. Just for interest I will throw out another idea. Kadee has offered accurate models of NYC PS-1 box cars including their catalogue number 4057 (Lot 842-B with 5-panel Superior doors) and 4079 (Lot 808-B with Youngstown doors). Both of these are sold out at Kadee, but you might be able to locate one somewhere or wait for a future release that Kadee will no doubt offer. These two models have black roofs and ends to represent the car cement applied to new NYC PS-1 box cars built from 1950 to 1952. They also come with the correct hand brake and Apex Tri-Lok running boards & brake steps. Regards, Ed Hawkins [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Just for interest I will throw out another idea. Kadee has offered These are the NYC models Ed mentioned, and a couple extras. As Ed noted these are all PS-1 1950-1953 production. 4007 NYC 170699 IY doors, 1951 reweigh 1961 http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4007l.jpg 4032 NYC 169000 7p SUP doors, 1950 original http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4032l.jpg 4033 NYC 169004 7p SUP doors, 1950 original http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4033l.jpg 4034 NYC 169016 7p SUP doors, 1950 original http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4034l.jpg 4057 NYC 180199 5p SUP doors, 1952 original black ends/roof http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4057l.jpg 4079 NYC 170750 IY doors, 1951 original, black ends/roof http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4079l.jpg 4084 NYC 170749 IY doors, 1968 stencil, jade green repaint http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4084l.jpg If you can find it, try to get Kadee #4000, the undecorated "RTR" PS-1. The early undec models came with 3 different pairs of doors but I don't know if the newer "kit" (#4100) comes with extra doors. http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4000l.jpg http://www.kadee.com/ca/kit/jpg/40%27exps.jpg Tim O'Connor |
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Mark
Thanks Tim. Just trying to get a variety besides B&O.
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Mark Morgan --- On Wed, 5/12/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central 765-B To: STMFC@... Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 9:07 PM Just for interest I will throw out another idea. Kadee has offered accurate models of NYC PS-1 box cars including their catalogue number 4057 (Lot 842-B with 5-panel Superior doors) and 4079 (Lot 808-B with Youngstown doors). Both of these are sold out at Kadee, but you might be able to locate one somewhere or wait for a future release that Kadee will no doubt offer. These two models have black roofs and ends to represent the car cement applied to new NYC PS-1 box cars built from 1950 to 1952. They also come with the correct hand brake and Apex Tri-Lok running boards & brake steps. Regards, Ed Hawkins These are the NYC models Ed mentioned, and a couple extras. As Ed noted these are all PS-1 1950-1953 production. 4007 NYC 170699 IY doors, 1951 reweigh 1961 http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4007l.jpg 4032 NYC 169000 7p SUP doors, 1950 original http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4032l.jpg 4033 NYC 169004 7p SUP doors, 1950 original http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4033l.jpg 4034 NYC 169016 7p SUP doors, 1950 original http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4034l.jpg 4057 NYC 180199 5p SUP doors, 1952 original black ends/roof http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4057l.jpg 4079 NYC 170750 IY doors, 1951 original, black ends/roof http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4079l.jpg 4084 NYC 170749 IY doors, 1968 stencil, jade green repaint http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4084l.jpg If you can find it, try to get Kadee #4000, the undecorated "RTR" PS-1. The early undec models came with 3 different pairs of doors but I don't know if the newer "kit" (#4100) comes with extra doors. http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4000l.jpg http://www.kadee.com/ca/kit/jpg/40%27exps.jpg Tim O'Connor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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