Grand Truck Western (GTW) Box Cars


rwitt_2000
 

Can anyone provide information about these three GTW boxcars? The 50-ft
former automobile car appears to be in express service at the time of
the photo. The steel underframe car also appears to have been built for
auto service based upon the 1-1/2 door opening. I am not sure the plug
door one is in the STMFC era.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170492093611
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170492082003
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170492085140

Regards,

Bob Witt


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 2, 2010, at 11:31 AM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

Can anyone provide information about these three GTW boxcars? The
50-ft
former automobile car appears to be in express service at the time of
the photo. The steel underframe car also appears to have been built
for
auto service based upon the 1-1/2 door opening. I am not sure the plug
door one is in the STMFC era.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170492093611
GTW 576631 was in the 576000-576999 series, all of which were in auto
engine service (note the stenciling which reads "specially equipped
for automobile engine loading"). There were 50 cars in the series in
1943, but the number diminished steadily until only 3 cars were left
in 1950. The car in the photo had arch bar trucks when photographed,
and those would have had to be changed to cast steel trucks by 1941.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170492082003
GTW 11498 was in express box car service and thus wasn't in the
ORERs. It was obviously one of the end door 50' auto cars built ca.
1941 that was either originally intended for, or converted for,
passenger service, as is evident from the Commonwealth high speed
trucks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170492085140
You're right, this was built or rebuilt well past the STMFC era.

Richard Hendrickson


thomas christensen
 

Bob,
GTW 11498 is part of a 15 car group numbered 11484-11499. According to the notes, box express cars in this series had small doors on each end for passage from one car to another, except:  cars 11490-11494 had solid ends and 11495-11499 had full end doors as pictured. Info from the March 1966 Offical Register of Passenger Train Equipment.

--- On Wed, 6/2/10, rwitt_2000 <rwitt_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:


 



Can anyone provide information about these three GTW boxcars? The 50-ft
former automobile car appears to be in express service at the time of
the photo. The steel underframe car also appears to have been built for
auto service based upon the 1-1/2 door opening. I am not sure the plug
door one is in the STMFC era.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170492082003

Regards,

Bob Witt


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
GTW 11498 was in express box car service and thus wasn't in the ORERs . . .
Ah, but it was in the ORPTE. My 1943 issue shows GTW 11490-11499 as all-steel 50'6" (IL) BX cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Andy Carlson
 

The 40' plug door car has early Dreadnaught ends. Obviously rebuilt from a single door 10 panel '37AAR boxcar.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
 

Are you sure? It seems to have diagonal panel roof and a 10'6 interior height, seems aq little more recent than '37.

Staffan Ehnbom

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Carlson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Grand Truck Western (GTW) Box Cars





The 40' plug door car has early Dreadnaught ends. Obviously rebuilt from a single door 10 panel '37AAR boxcar.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Tim O'Connor
 

Staffan

Catching up on old emails.... Andy is partly correct -- these cars
were rebuilt from modified 1937 AAR box cars with 5/5 ends and 10'6"
inside height. I have a later photo that shows the ends and roof and
a new number series in the Good Track paint scheme.

Tim O'Connor

==================================================================

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170492085140

Are you sure? It seems to have diagonal panel roof and a 10'6 interior
height, seems aq little more recent than '37.

Staffan Ehnbom

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Carlson
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Grand Truck Western (GTW) Box Cars

The 40' plug door car has early Dreadnaught ends. Obviously rebuilt from a
single door 10 panel '37 AAR boxcar.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
 

I think I got stuck on the '37 date thinking that to be a 10'0 inside height car. I guess the 10'6 inside height indicates it is a modified '37 built in the very late thirties or early forties. But the 5/5 early dreadnaught ends and diagonal panel roof seems to be a bit of an unusual combination too. I have a hunch improved dreadnaught ends came a bit earlier than the diagonal roof panels. In this case perhaps the car received new roof panels at rebuilding?

Staffan Ehnbom

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Cc: bbfcl@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Grand Truck Western (GTW) Box Cars



Staffan

Catching up on old emails.... Andy is partly correct -- these cars
were rebuilt from modified 1937 AAR box cars with 5/5 ends and 10'6"
inside height. I have a later photo that shows the ends and roof and
a new number series in the Good Track paint scheme.

Tim O'Connor

==================================================================

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170492085140

Are you sure? It seems to have diagonal panel roof and a 10'6 interior
height, seems aq little more recent than '37.

Staffan Ehnbom

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Carlson
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Grand Truck Western (GTW) Box Cars

The 40' plug door car has early Dreadnaught ends. Obviously rebuilt from a
single door 10 panel '37 AAR boxcar.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Staffan Ehnbom wrote:
I think I got stuck on the '37 date thinking that to be a 10'0 inside height car. I guess the 10'6 inside height indicates it is a modified '37 built in the very late thirties or early forties. But the 5/5 early dreadnaught ends and diagonal panel roof seems to be a bit of an unusual combination too. I have a hunch improved dreadnaught ends came a bit earlier than the diagonal roof panels. In this case perhaps the car received new roof panels at rebuilding?
Yes, Staffan, IIRC the diagonal panel roof was introduced early in 1949, the improved Dreadnaught end in 1944 (though not universal in construction until about 1946). Someone may have exact dates. I'm not sure when the W-corner post end first was used, but the AAR modified the 1937 box car in 1940 to include this end. So a sharp-cornered Dreadnaught end with a DP roof would certainly seem to indicate rebuilding.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 29, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Staffan Ehnbom wrote:

I think I got stuck on the '37 date thinking that to be a 10'0 inside
height car. I guess the 10'6 inside height indicates it is a modified
'37 built in the very late thirties or early forties. But the 5/5
early dreadnaught ends and diagonal panel roof seems to be a bit of an
unusual combination too. I have a hunch improved dreadnaught ends came
a bit earlier than the diagonal roof panels. In this case perhaps the
car received new roof panels at rebuilding?
Staffan,
The earliest use of a diagonal panel roof I've found documented by
photo or other technical data is March 1948, which happens to be on 40'
box cars for your beloved Great Northern Railway (GN
10900-11374/2525-2549). A photo of GN 11304 and the GN diagram for this
series confirms the diagonal panel roof. The first occurrence I've
found of an Improved Dreadnaught End was some three years earlier on
NYC 175000-175499 (Lot 737-B) built in Feb. 1945.

I will appreciate knowing if anyone has evidence of earlier uses of
diagonal panel roofs and/or Improved Dreadnaught Ends.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 29, 2010, at 3:00 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

....Yes, Staffan, IIRC the diagonal panel roof was introduced early
in 1949,
Actually, 1948

the improved Dreadnaught end in 1944 (though not universal in
construction until about 1946). Someone may have exact dates.
AFAIK, the last box cars with prewar style Dreadnaught ends were
built for the Detroit & Mackinac in 1947.

....I'm not
sure when the W-corner post end first was used,
Union Pacific R-50-24s in 1939

but the AAR modified
the 1937 box car in 1940 to include this end. So a sharp-cornered
Dreadnaught end with a DP roof would certainly seem to indicate
rebuilding.
Yes. The IC cars built ca. 1939 had 5-5 square cornered ends and
rectangular panel Murphy roofs, so a car with a diagonal panel roof
would have to have been retrofitted with it after 1948.

Richard Hendrickson


Aley, Jeff A
 

A minor typo: the cars were Union Pacific B-50-24's, not R-50-24's.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 5:35 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Grand Truck Western (GTW) Box Cars

> ....I'm not
sure when the W-corner post end first was used,
Union Pacific R-50-24s in 1939