Date
1 - 5 of 5
standard framing sizes for house car construction?
D. Scott Chatfield
A friend wants to scratchbuild a model of LOP&G 601, a 40-foot boxcar that smells to me like it could a former Southern Rwy box. Not that I'm an expert on those, mind you. He sent me a copy of a picture, but I don't know the source or if it can be shared. It shows a wood-bodied, double-sheathed box on a steel fishbelly underframe.
Anyhow, it looks like the sides are made of 1x4 tongue & groove, but his question is were there standard lumber sizes to build the interior framing of wood boxcars? Assuming this car is in the ORER, I might be able to extrapolate the wall thickness from the difference between IW and EW or EXW. However, it might not be in the ORER since shortline-owned boxcars in that day were often only used for on-line LCL service.
We've got an old OSL box on the farm out in Colorado, but I'm in Georgia and my tape measure isn't quite that long....
Scott Chatfield
Anyhow, it looks like the sides are made of 1x4 tongue & groove, but his question is were there standard lumber sizes to build the interior framing of wood boxcars? Assuming this car is in the ORER, I might be able to extrapolate the wall thickness from the difference between IW and EW or EXW. However, it might not be in the ORER since shortline-owned boxcars in that day were often only used for on-line LCL service.
We've got an old OSL box on the farm out in Colorado, but I'm in Georgia and my tape measure isn't quite that long....
Scott Chatfield
soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., blindog@... wrote:
Your friend really needs a Car Builder's Cyc from the early part of the century for the construction details, one of the old Train Shed Cyclopedia series might do. The TSC series did parts of the 1919 Cyc, and another that had views of the USRA cars, which were double sheathed cars with fishbelly underframes.
As to lumber, the MCB, and later the ARA, had a series of standard sections for siding, sheathing, and flooring that are usually illustrated in the Cyc somewhere with detailed drawings. That's where you find out the the standard 5-1/4" siding had a center groove, a detail missed by innumerable manufacturers over the years. I just don't remember if the drawings are in any of the TSC series; they are in the Kalmbach reprint of the 1940 for sure.
Dennis
fishbelly underframe...
A friend wants to scratchbuild a model of LOP&G 601, a 40-foot boxcar that smells to me like it could a former Southern Rwy box... It shows a wood-bodied, double-sheathed box on a steel
Hi Scott,
Anyhow, it looks like the sides are made of 1x4 tongue & groove, but his question is were there standard lumber sizes to build the interior framing of wood boxcars?
Scott Chatfield
Your friend really needs a Car Builder's Cyc from the early part of the century for the construction details, one of the old Train Shed Cyclopedia series might do. The TSC series did parts of the 1919 Cyc, and another that had views of the USRA cars, which were double sheathed cars with fishbelly underframes.
As to lumber, the MCB, and later the ARA, had a series of standard sections for siding, sheathing, and flooring that are usually illustrated in the Cyc somewhere with detailed drawings. That's where you find out the the standard 5-1/4" siding had a center groove, a detail missed by innumerable manufacturers over the years. I just don't remember if the drawings are in any of the TSC series; they are in the Kalmbach reprint of the 1940 for sure.
Dennis
Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 2, 2010, at 1:25 PM, blindog@... wrote:
single door box cars built between WW I and the late 1920s were 36'
cars with truss rod underframes, and they were followed by double
door 40' composite cars with steel ends A more likely source would
have been the Atlantic Coast Line or Seaboard Air Line, since those
were railroads the LOP&G interchanged with. However, LOP&G 601 and
602 were 40'4" IL, according to 30s and 40s ORERs, with an unusually
low inside height of 8'3", and those dimensions don't match any cars
on the ACL or SAL rosters in that period.
Richard Hendrickson
A friend wants to scratchbuild a model of LOP&G 601, a 40-footScott, that's not an ex-Southern car; IIRC, all of the Southern XM
boxcar that smells to me like it could a former Southern Rwy box.
Not that I'm an expert on those, mind you. He sent me a copy of a
picture, but I don't know the source or if it can be shared. It
shows a wood-bodied, double-sheathed box on a steel fishbelly
underframe.
single door box cars built between WW I and the late 1920s were 36'
cars with truss rod underframes, and they were followed by double
door 40' composite cars with steel ends A more likely source would
have been the Atlantic Coast Line or Seaboard Air Line, since those
were railroads the LOP&G interchanged with. However, LOP&G 601 and
602 were 40'4" IL, according to 30s and 40s ORERs, with an unusually
low inside height of 8'3", and those dimensions don't match any cars
on the ACL or SAL rosters in that period.
Richard Hendrickson
Todd Horton
Scott, do you have a photo of this car? Any idea how long it lasted and if it wss used in interchange service? Todd Horton
________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, June 2, 2010 7:00:29 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] standard framing sizes for house car construction?
On Jun 2, 2010, at 1:25 PM, blindog@... wrote:
single door box cars built between WW I and the late 1920s were 36'
cars with truss rod underframes, and they were followed by double
door 40' composite cars with steel ends A more likely source would
have been the Atlantic Coast Line or Seaboard Air Line, since those
were railroads the LOP&G interchanged with. However, LOP&G 601 and
602 were 40'4" IL, according to 30s and 40s ORERs, with an unusually
low inside height of 8'3", and those dimensions don't match any cars
on the ACL or SAL rosters in that period.
Richard Hendrickson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, June 2, 2010 7:00:29 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] standard framing sizes for house car construction?
On Jun 2, 2010, at 1:25 PM, blindog@... wrote:
A friend wants to scratchbuild a model of LOP&G 601, a 40-footScott, that's not an ex-Southern car; IIRC, all of the Southern XM
boxcar that smells to me like it could a former Southern Rwy box.
Not that I'm an expert on those, mind you. He sent me a copy of a
picture, but I don't know the source or if it can be shared. It
shows a wood-bodied, double-sheathed box on a steel fishbelly
underframe.
single door box cars built between WW I and the late 1920s were 36'
cars with truss rod underframes, and they were followed by double
door 40' composite cars with steel ends A more likely source would
have been the Atlantic Coast Line or Seaboard Air Line, since those
were railroads the LOP&G interchanged with. However, LOP&G 601 and
602 were 40'4" IL, according to 30s and 40s ORERs, with an unusually
low inside height of 8'3", and those dimensions don't match any cars
on the ACL or SAL rosters in that period.
Richard Hendrickson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rwitt_2000
Scott Chatfield asked:boxcar that smells to me like it could a former Southern Rwy box... It
A friend wants to scratchbuild a model of LOP&G 601, a 40-foot
shows a wood-bodied, double-sheathed box on a steel
fishbelly underframe...his question is were there standard lumber sizes to build the interior
Anyhow, it looks like the sides are made of 1x4 tongue & groove, but
framing of wood boxcars?
Dennis Storzek replied
Hi Scott,the century for the construction details, one of the old Train Shed
Your friend really needs a Car Builder's Cyc from the early part of
Cyclopedia series might do. The TSC series did parts of the 1919 Cyc,
and another that had views of the USRA cars, which were double sheathed
cars with fishbelly underframes.
sections for siding, sheathing, and flooring that are usually
As to lumber, the MCB, and later the ARA, had a series of standard
illustrated in the Cyc somewhere with detailed drawings. That's where
you find out the the standard 5-1/4" siding had a center groove, a
detail missed by innumerable manufacturers over the years. I just don't
remember if the drawings are in any of the TSC series; they are in the
Kalmbach reprint of the 1940 for sure.
Scott,
It will help to identify the original owner of the car and alsothe built
date. The construction for double-sheathed house car withsteel
fishbelly underframes typically was wood framed. As Dennissuggested find
the appropriate Car Builders' Dictionary for thatperiod. The USRA
double-sheathed, I believe , represented "typical"construction for 1919
and are in the TSC reprint for USRA equipment. The framing also would
have steel tie rods inthe sides, I believe, in tension with the wood
framing in compression(The mechanical engineers on the list hopefully
will correct myassumptions).
The B&O class M-13 and M-15 double-sheathed boxcars all had wood framed
superstructures. General arrangement drawings for the M-15 are available
from the Pullman Library.
Regards,
Bob Witt