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Liquid chloride Tankcar help
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Charles Hladik
Chris,
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Can't help with the drawings, but Dad worked there for over 20 years. You might want to check the Fairport, Painesville and Eastern site, _www.rsworld.com~nix66/fpemain.html_ (http://www.rsworld.com~nix66/fpemain.html) +it has a lot of info on the Diamond. Chuck Hladik Rutland Railroad Virginia Division
In a message dated 6/8/2010 4:51:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
CSchmuck@... writes: Hello, I am looking for information to model this tiny tankcar: _http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ProtoPhotos#5480125587635072754_ (http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ProtoPhotos#5480125587635072754) I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X. The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the photo. Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus! Thanks Chris
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schmuck804_99 <CSchmuck@...>
Hello,
I am looking for information to model this tiny tankcar: http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ProtoPhotos#5480125587635072754 I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X. The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the photo. Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus! Thanks Chris
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Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Chris and friends,
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Can't help with the tank car (neat, though!), but note the NP boxcar to the right. Can't have a freight train without an NP box in the first ten cars. Kind regards, Garth Groff schmuck804_99 wrote:
Hello,
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Had you already passed on the Trix car? It is about 6k, like that one, and
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is also an insulated car with valve casing instead of dome. Admittedly, some work to bring up to standard. Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Garth G. Groff Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:56 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Liquid chloride Tankcar help Chris and friends, Can't help with the tank car (neat, though!), but note the NP boxcar to the right. Can't have a freight train without an NP box in the first ten cars. Kind regards, Garth Groff schmuck804_99 wrote: Hello,
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al_brown03
Well, the car has a pressure bonnet not a dome. The 1/53 ORER shows 81 tank cars, AAR type TPI, ICC classes 105A300 (66 cars) and 105A300W (15 cars), 30 and 40 tons, in eleven groups between DAX 200-299. All but four cars are said to be marked "Chlorine Gas Tank Car". I could convince myself this car's number is 212, one of three 40-ton cars in series 211-213. The capacity looks to be maybe 5000 gallons, which IIRC is a typical size for a steam-era chlorine tank; the tank mounts differ from those on the other tank car shown, and suggest to me this car may have been built by General American or Standard Tank. (See pictures in Ted Culotta's tank car book.)
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-- hth -- -- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
--- In STMFC@..., "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:
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schmuck804_99 <CSchmuck@...>
Al,
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Thank you. This info "sounds right" to me from my guess. So this tank would be similar to the SHPX 4000gal car in the June 94 MR, but longer and a different dome? Thanks for your help! Chris
--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:
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schmuck804_99 <CSchmuck@...>
Chuck,
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Thank you for the link. I live right where the Fairport branch of the B&O started. I used to be the Painesville & Youngstown RR and at one time was 3' gauge. Chris
--- In STMFC@..., RUTLANDRS@... wrote:
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schmuck804_99 <CSchmuck@...>
Eldon,
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I model in N scale this car will be a kitbash with a new tank for me... Chris
--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
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Bryan Busséy
Chris,
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If an HO model already exists at a reasonable cost, that along with prototype photos might be a viable alternative to scale drawings since you are scratchbuilding the N scale tank in any event. bb
On 6/8/2010 2:41 PM, schmuck804_99 wrote:
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al_brown03
They're both small tank cars, so the dimensions are somewhat similar; in addition to the differences you mention and the tank mounts, the DAX car is pressurized and insulated so the tank has a jacket. In Kaminski's tank car book, p 227, are general arrangement drawings (with dimensions) of AC&F insulated Type 27 cars from 2600 to 10,000 gallons.
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The HO scale Trix model mentioned in this thread is of a 6,000-gallon insulated car; Richard Hendrickson discusses prototypes in Railmodel Journal 9/04, pp 49-53. The cars shown were all built by AC&F, and all the pictures but one show 6,000-gallon cars, which to me look fatter than the DAX car. The exception is SPX 8010, a 4,000-gallon car, so I suspect that's what DAX 212(?) may be. -- hth -- -- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
--- In STMFC@..., "schmuck804_99" <CSchmuck@...> wrote:
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Note: In the Diamond Alkali equipment listing of the January 1953 ORER,
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it states that ICC regulations prohibited the loading of any tank car with more than 60,000 lbs of chlorine. Since chlorine weighs over 12 lbs/gallon any size in excess of 5,000 gallons was unnecessary. Nevertheless the equipment register shows various cars with 80,000 lbs as well as 60,000 lbs capacity for chlorine. Several tank cars are specially noted as having 30,000 lbs capacity (Note A). Tank cars could be smaller -- I have a photo of a 3,000 gallon car built for tetraethyl lead (which weighs over 14 lbs/gallon). Tim O'Connor
They're both small tank cars, so the dimensions are somewhat similar; in addition to the differences you mention and the tank mounts, the DAX car is pressurized and insulated so the tank has a jacket. In Kaminski's tank car book, p 227, are general arrangement drawings (with dimensions) of AC&F insulated Type 27 cars from 2600 to 10,000 gallons.
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Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 8, 2010, at 1:47 AM, schmuck804_99 wrote:
Hello,That's a GATC Type ICC-105 high pressure 4,000 gal. high pressure chlorine car of 30 tons nominal capacity. AFAIK there are no drawings available for a GATC car. However, Diamond also owned AC&F cars which were essentially identical except for their underframes, so the AC&F general arrangement drawings in Kaminski's book, in '40s editions of the Car Builders' Cyclopedias, and in Train Shed Cyclopedia #12 will give you the dimensions you need. I will send you off-list a couple of scans that will help. Richard Hendrickson
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Charles Hladik
Years ago I got a Champ set for Diamond Alkali. It even included
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"Painesville, Ohio. I do not recall the set number. Chuck Hladik
In a message dated 6/13/2010 11:15:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
1payne1@... writes: What year were these cars built? And, are there any decals available for Diamond Alkali (DAX)? Dean Payne --- In _STMFC@... (mailto:STMFC@...) , "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote: addition to the differences you mention and the tank mounts, the DAX car is pressurized and insulated so the tank has a jacket. In Kaminski's tank car book, p 227, are general arrangement drawings (with dimensions) of AC&F insulated Type 27 cars from 2600 to 10,000 gallons. insulated car; Richard Hendrickson discusses prototypes in Railmodel Journal 9/04, pp 49-53. The cars shown were all built by AC&F, and all the pictures but one show 6,000-gallon cars, which to me look fatter than the DAX car. The exception is SPX 8010, a 4,000-gallon car, so I suspect that's what DAX 212(?) may be. "schmuck804_99" <CSchmuck@> wrote: MR, but longer and a different dome?> Thank you. This info "sounds right" to me from my guess. "al_brown03" <abrown@> wrote: 81 tank cars, AAR type TPI, ICC classes 105A300 (66 cars) and 105A300W (15 cars), 30 and 40 tons, in eleven groups between DAX 200-299. All but four cars are said to be marked "Chlorine Gas Tank Car". I could convince myself this car's number is 212, one of three 40-ton cars in series 211-213. The capacity looks to be maybe 5000 gallons, which IIRC is a typical size for a steam-era chlorine tank; the tank mounts differ from those on the other tank car shown, and suggest to me this car may have been built by General American or Standard Tank. (See pictures in Ted Culotta's tank car book.) "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@> wrote:> > boxcar to first ten> > the right. Can't have a freight train without an NP box in the _http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ProtoPhotos#5480125587635072754_> > > Garth Groffcars.> Kind regards,> > > (http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/ProtoPhotos#5480125587635072754) > > > > I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X.photo.The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the >> Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus!
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Dean Payne
What year were these cars built? And, are there any decals available for Diamond Alkali (DAX)?
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Dean Payne
--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:
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Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 13, 2010, at 8:14 AM, Dean wrote:
What year were these cars built? And, are there any decalsSeveral photos I have show built dates from 1929 through the early 1930s. No decals, AFAIK. Richard Hendrickson
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Diamond Alkali also owned chlorine cannister flat cars like
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the model imported by Metro (and claimed to be available from Train Cat as well although the web site photos appear to be the Metro model). I've checked my lists and I can't find any decals ever made for Diamond Alkali. There is a Soph Marty shot of GATX 32991 for caustic soda, taken in 1956 -- black with a red & white herald. The car is similar to the Overland 3270, and Richard and I discussed the decal problem for this car back in 2003. Decals (lack of) for tank cars is a real problem! Tim O'Connor
What year were these cars built? And, are there any decalsSeveral photos I have show built dates from 1929 through the early
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David Sieber
Dean,
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I've never seen any decals for the older DAX car in that photo. However, RMC May 1958 had a 2-page "Craftsman Lettering Guide" for Diamond Chemicals' then-new lettering scheme featuring their new herald of a red diamond in a stylized looping black "d" on (apparently) white GATX tanks for liquid chlorine and caustic soda. There were four photos and a lettering diagram, plus a sidebar offering: "Free HO decals for these cars! Diamond Alkali Company offers a complete set of HO Diamond tank car decals to RMC readers FREE of charge. They can be attached to any HO chemical type tank car of the type shown in the photos. These decals have been especially prepared by Wm. K. Walthers from authentic data supplied by the firm. For your decals, write legibly to: Tank Car Decals, Advertising and Public Relations Dept., Diamond Alkali Company, Cleveland 14, Ohio" By the time I began actively modeling in the mid-60s, Diamond Alkali's PR Dept. had exhausted their stock of decals and I couldn't find them from Walthers. While this doesn't help you for decals of either lettering scheme, it reemphasizes the lack of tank car decals for the steam and early diesel eras. Even if/when you find an old tank car decal, it's tough to find documentation to use it correctly. What color shades approximate (much less match) Celanese light green and cream (Champ HT-222) or Victor Chemical Works yellow (Champ HT-221), assuming that you match the "medium green" dome and tank center band to the green of the Victor Chemicals decal. I've found great b&w photos for Victor phosphorus tank cars, but none in color. I keep hearing rumors of a "Color Guide to Tank Cars," possibly multiple volumes, but I'm still waiting and hoping ... Dave Sieber, Reno NV
--- In STMFC@..., "Dean" <1payne1@...> wrote:
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Bryan Busséy
The TrainCat website outdated pic might be of the Metro brass import,
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but the N scale kit has been available for at least a couple of years and renders a nice model. The lack of decals are an issue though. bb
On 6/14/2010 5:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
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Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Tim;
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I also have the HO brass model imported by MTS, and no, I have also never been able to find any source for decals, although someone I know got a pre-lettered version of the car. It is a more important prototype than most believe, as water treatment plants were all over the place, and they used the canisters to transport chlorine around their facilities, as an alternative to having a large holding tank on-site. I think GenAm and AC&F both made the 106 cars. Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 5:04 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help Diamond Alkali also owned chlorine cannister flat cars like the model imported by Metro (and claimed to be available from Train Cat as well although the web site photos appear to be the Metro model). I've checked my lists and I can't find any decals ever made for Diamond Alkali. There is a Soph Marty shot of GATX 32991 for caustic soda, taken in 1956 -- black with a red & white herald. The car is similar to the Overland 3270, and Richard and I discussed the decal problem for this car back in 2003. Decals (lack of) for tank cars is a real problem! Tim O'Connor What year were these cars built? And, are there any decals availableSeveral photos I have show built dates from 1929 through the early
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jerryglow2
I wonder if Whistle Stop in Pasadena CA might ever had some done. They had connections with Thin Film and did decals for the Arrowhead water car although admittedly that has more SoCal roots.
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As a young teen, I remember sending off to Diamond Chemical themselves who offered a free decal set. Jerry Glow
--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
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