What tank cars would be most appropriate for roads operating around Chicago...


dakkinder
 

In the 1930's and from 1940 till 1955. I am specifically looking at the Proto 2k series of cars and the Intermountain cars .
Also to be more detailed about my question the rail roads i'm depicting are the CNW,CB&Q,MILW .
I'm wanting to know the specific road /owner names and paint schemes that are available in both of the above mentioned manufacturers that would be appropriate for my needs.
Any help would be appreciated
Doug Kinder


Clark Propst
 

Doug, the guys on this list are extremely helpful. But, it might be better for you to find models that are available to purchase (most road names are made in limited runs). Then ask it they're appropriate for what you're modeling.
Clark Propst


dakkinder
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:



Doug, the guys on this list are extremely helpful. But, it might be better for you to find models that are available to purchase (most road names are made in limited runs). Then ask it they're appropriate for what you're modeling.
Clark Propst
Thanks Clark,
Well i just purchased a Intermountain #46305 8000 gal riveted Canton tank car company it has a white tank and red lettering i beleive this would fit into my era's .
It's hard to be specific and frustrating when i have little knowledge of the subject. All i can say is this is what i want to do does anyone have any suggestions as far as road names and paint schemes etc and then i will hunt them down and put them together or buy them.


Bruce Smith
 

On Jun 21, 2010, at 9:16 AM, dakkinder wrote:
Thanks Clark,
Well i just purchased a Intermountain #46305 8000 gal riveted Canton tank car company it has a white tank and red lettering i beleive this would fit into my era's .
It's hard to be specific and frustrating when i have little knowledge of the subject. All i can say is this is what i want to do does anyone have any suggestions as far as road names and paint schemes etc and then i will hunt them down and put them together or buy them.
Doug,

Do what I do, search the archives BEFORE you buy <G>! As for what to look for, the vast majority of tank cars were privately owned, which is reflected in the models offered. Those private fleets changed over time with mergers, so again, what is appropriate for the 1930s is completely wrong for the 1940s, etc. Certain tank car lines served certain oil companies, usually regionally, so if you are modeling specific facilities then you need to look in the archives or ask about that company. If you're modeling based on the national fleet as described in the archives (as I do for WWII), then you're in deep doo doo since you need buckets of UTLX cars, but the IM UTLX marked type 27 is incorrectly painted, and there is no RTR model of the common UTLX X-3 class cars (there is a resin kit). What that leaves you with is SHPX marked cars as an excellent starting point. For other specific owners, search the archives with "tank car midwest" and enjoy the reading material you will generate ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Tim O'Connor
 

To add to what Bruce wrote:

Numerically in the 1930's, the vast majority of tank cars were
not Type 21's and Type 27's which were more or less "state of the
art" designs. With the advent of oil pipelines, many thousands of
earlier tank cars became "underemployed" and the number of new
tank cars built in the 1920's to 1940's was only a fraction of
the earlier production numbers. And the earlier cars looked very
different, since many (most?) of them had radial rivet seams
(around the diameter of the tank) instead of horizontal seams
like the ACF Types 21 and 27.

Unfortunately in HO scale, for other builders and other designs,
the only option is resin kits, and there aren't that many of them
either.

Generally you can trust the lettering on the Proto 2000 models but
you're taking a big chance with Intermountain models! It helps to
have an appropriate Equipment Register (ORER) for your era so you
can check up on the owners and car numbers.

Tim O'Connor

Doug,

Do what I do, search the archives BEFORE you buy <G>! As for what to
look for, the vast majority of tank cars were privately owned, which
is reflected in the models offered. Those private fleets changed
over time with mergers, so again, what is appropriate for the 1930s
is completely wrong for the 1940s, etc. Certain tank car lines
served certain oil companies, usually regionally, so if you are
modeling specific facilities then you need to look in the archives or
ask about that company. If you're modeling based on the national
fleet as described in the archives (as I do for WWII), then you're in
deep doo doo since you need buckets of UTLX cars, but the IM UTLX
marked type 27 is incorrectly painted, and there is no RTR model of
the common UTLX X-3 class cars (there is a resin kit). What that
leaves you with is SHPX marked cars as an excellent starting point.
For other specific owners, search the archives with "tank car
midwest" and enjoy the reading material you will generate ;^)

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
. . . And the earlier cars looked very
different, since many (most?) of them had radial rivet seams
(around the diameter of the tank) instead of horizontal seams
like the ACF Types 21 and 27.

----- Original Message -----

This is one of those annoying misnomers that probably bugs me as much "Bettendorf trucks", "outside framed boxcar", or "PRR X-29 boxcar" does others. (*)

There are three directions on a cylinder: axial/longitudinal, radial, and tangential/circumferential. Most riveted tank cars have longitudinal seams, some had circumferential seams. The only radial seams would be those caused by making the heads out of multiple pieces. Some have suggested that radial refers to the direction of the rivet axes on circumferentially seamed cars, but that would be true for longitudinal seams as well.

Oh well.

KL

(*) I take that back. There is very little in my life that causes me to react to the extent that some people do when reading these terms.


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
This is one of those annoying misnomers that probably bugs me as much "Bettendorf trucks", "outside framed boxcar", or "PRR X-29 boxcar" does others. (*)

There are three directions on a cylinder: axial/longitudinal, radial, and tangential/circumferential. Most riveted tank cars have longitudinal seams, some had circumferential seams. The only radial seams would be those caused by making the heads out of multiple pieces. Some have suggested that radial refers to the direction of the rivet axes on circumferentially seamed cars, but that would be true for longitudinal seams as well.
You're entirely right, Kurt, and I've reflected on this too, but so many people use "radial" that I'm afraid I've slipped and said so too on occasion. At least there WERE Bettendorf trucks. <g>


Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Jim Hayes
 

But radial is so much easier to type than circum... whatever.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@verizon.net> wrote:



----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
. . . And the earlier cars looked very
different, since many (most?) of them had radial rivet seams
(around the diameter of the tank) instead of horizontal seams
like the ACF Types 21 and 27.

----- Original Message -----

This is one of those annoying misnomers that probably bugs me as much
"Bettendorf trucks", "outside framed boxcar", or "PRR X-29 boxcar" does
others. (*)

There are three directions on a cylinder: axial/longitudinal, radial, and
tangential/circumferential. Most riveted tank cars have longitudinal seams,

some had circumferential seams. The only radial seams would be those caused

by making the heads out of multiple pieces. Some have suggested that radial

refers to the direction of the rivet axes on circumferentially seamed cars,

but that would be true for longitudinal seams as well.

Oh well.

KL

(*) I take that back. There is very little in my life that causes me to
react to the extent that some people do when reading these terms.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

I disagree with Kurt on this; consider radial aircraft engines.
Are the cylinders arranged pointed into the fuselage? No, they
are arranged around the circumference. The rivets arranged radially
on a tank car are each on a radius drawn from the center of the
tank. That is what makes them radial. (I'm not making this up;
look it up in a dictionary.)

A tank car is not a cylinder. If it were, we'd call them cylinder
cars.

Tim O'Connor

At 7/10/2010 02:07 PM Saturday, you wrote:
But radial is so much easier to type than circum... whatever.

Jim Hayes

There are three directions on a cylinder: axial/longitudinal, radial, and
tangential/circumferential.


Schuyler Larrabee
 

The nomenclature refers to the location of the SEAM, not the orientation of
the rivets.


SGL

I disagree with Kurt on this; consider radial aircraft engines.
Are the cylinders arranged pointed into the fuselage? No, they
are arranged around the circumference. The rivets arranged radially
on a tank car are each on a radius drawn from the center of the
tank. That is what makes them radial. (I'm not making this up;
look it up in a dictionary.)

A tank car is not a cylinder. If it were, we'd call them cylinder
cars.

Tim O'Connor

At 7/10/2010 02:07 PM Saturday, you wrote:
But radial is so much easier to type than circum... whatever.

Jim Hayes

There are three directions on a cylinder: axial/longitudinal, radial, and
tangential/circumferential.







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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Right. As I noted, a tank car with longitudinal seams has "radial" rivets too.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Schuyler Larrabee

The nomenclature refers to the location of the SEAM, not the orientation of
the rivets.