What tank cars would be most appropriate . . .


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Generally you can trust the lettering on the Proto 2000 models but you're taking a big chance with Intermountain models! It helps to have an appropriate Equipment Register (ORER) for your era so you can check up on the owners and car numbers.
Tim is right about what you can trust. But the ORER doesn't always solve problems--some bogus paint schemes have used authentic initials and car numbers, but applied them to entirely wrong bodies. Are such models closer to "correct" than if the car numbers are imaginary? Your call.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, what I meant is that the ORER info -combined- with the
Proto 2000 lettering can help you decide whether the car is
appropriate for your era. So far I haven't heard about any
bogus schemes or car numbers on the P2K cars although many are
too early for me.

Tim O'Connor

At 6/21/2010 02:58 PM Monday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Generally you can trust the lettering on the Proto 2000 models but
you're taking a big chance with Intermountain models! It helps to
have an appropriate Equipment Register (ORER) for your era so you
can check up on the owners and car numbers.
Tim is right about what you can trust. But the ORER doesn't
always solve problems--some bogus paint schemes have used authentic
initials and car numbers, but applied them to entirely wrong bodies.
Are such models closer to "correct" than if the car numbers are
imaginary? Your call.

Tony Thompson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, what I meant is that the ORER info -combined- with the Proto 2000 lettering can help you decide whether the car is
appropriate for your era. So far I haven't heard about any bogus schemes or car numbers on the P2K cars although many are
too early for me.
Very true about P2k. I was thinking about your warning for IM tank cars. And you're right about the ORER helping to determine era for a car number (though of course one needs to have a copy for one's era, or close to it), but obviously it can't help with a PAINT SCHEME of the wrong era, on a correctly-numbered car.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 21, 2010, at 12:32 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Tony, what I meant is that the ORER info -combined- with the
Proto 2000 lettering can help you decide whether the car is
appropriate for your era. So far I haven't heard about any
bogus schemes or car numbers on the P2K cars although many are
too early for me.
Since I worked as a consultant with Larry Grubb at Life-Like on the
development of the P2K tank cars, I can assure you that all of the P/
L schemes were accurate and were based on prototype photographic
evidence from the late 1940s and 1950s. I will add that Walthers,
after taking over the P2K line, issued a run of tank cars with KC air
brakes and late 1920s/1930s P/L schemes. Those P/L schemes were also
based on prototype photographic evidence, but that evidence dated
from well before the periods modeled by most STMFC list subscribers,
and in some cases the P/L schemes were short-lived on the prototype
cars. Questions about which P/L schemes were current at a specific
point in time can usually (though not always) be answered with some
precision, but for obvious reasons that's not true for questions
about "the 1930s" or "the 1950s," much less for "the 1930s through
the 1950s." It may be added that private owners (e.g., Texaco,
Magnolia, Shell, Mobil) tended to repaint their tank cars, and to
update P/L schemes, more frequently than large leasing companies like
General American, Union Tank Line, and Shippers Car Line. Of course,
in some cases you can justify running a model with an earlier P/L
scheme (e.g., prewar Kanotex and Magnolia billboard cars) at a later
period if the model is sufficiently weathered and dirty, though that
approach must obviously be used with caution. It's also worth noting
that billboard private owner tank cars were relatively rare in the
tank car fleet as a whole; more or less dirty "plane-Jane" black cars
were far more common.

Richard Hendrickson


Tim O'Connor
 

Yes, the ORER can't do it alone. But for example, I have the
A. E. Staley corn syrup car in the orange paint scheme. The car
has a built date of 1920... but the tiny lettering on the right
side has a stencil date of 1953. So I know that car is ok for
me. A 1920's version of the same car probably was black.

Tim O'Connor

At 6/21/2010 03:34 PM Monday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, what I meant is that the ORER info -combined- with the Proto
2000 lettering can help you decide whether the car is
appropriate for your era. So far I haven't heard about any bogus
schemes or car numbers on the P2K cars although many are
too early for me.
Very true about P2k. I was thinking about your warning for IM
tank cars. And you're right about the ORER helping to determine era
for a car number (though of course one needs to have a copy for one's
era, or close to it), but obviously it can't help with a PAINT SCHEME
of the wrong era, on a correctly-numbered car.

Tony Thompson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I have the A. E. Staley corn syrup car in the orange paint scheme. The car has a built date of 1920... but the tiny lettering on the right side has a stencil date of 1953. So I know that car is ok for me. A 1920's version of the same car probably was black.
There was a silver Staley scheme too, IIRC. I think Drake did it on their brass GATC 8k car--possibly valid.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Intermountain did a black Staley car, and a silver Staley car.
But I don't know if either one is correct.

Tim O'Connor

At 6/21/2010 04:51 PM Monday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
I have the A. E. Staley corn syrup car in the orange paint scheme.
The car has a built date of 1920... but the tiny lettering on the
right side has a stencil date of 1953. So I know that car is ok for
me. A 1920's version of the same car probably was black.
There was a silver Staley scheme too, IIRC. I think Drake did it
on their brass GATC 8k car--possibly valid.

Tony Thompson


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 21, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I have the A. E. Staley corn syrup car in the orange paint scheme.
The car has a built date of 1920... but the tiny lettering on the
right side has a stencil date of 1953. So I know that car is ok for
me. A 1920's version of the same car probably was black.
There was a silver Staley scheme too, IIRC. I think Drake did it
on their brass GATC 8k car--possibly valid.
As it happens, I supplied photos and data for the Drake brass tank
cars as well, and the 8K GATC Type 30 AESX model in aluminum with
black stenciling was, like the others, based on photographic
evidence. The aluminum and black scheme was the company standard for
Staley cars in the 1930s and '40s until the orange scheme began to
appear in the early 1950s. It's worth noting that the Staley tank
car fleet was operated for them under AESX reporting marks by the
North American Car Corp.

Richard Hendrickson


Jim Betz
 

Hi,

Why not start with photos of trains/yards taken in your era(s)
and in your area(s) - and if possible even taken on your RR? With
just the date and the reporting marks (RR, not number) you should
be able to then go to the appropriate ORER(s) and get car number
ranges and other useful data. And probably also fill in some
'likely alternatives' you didn't find a picture of ...
Don't necessarily limit your self too much - a pic of a tank car
in Chicago is likely to 'work' for a layout based upon say Dayton
or Minneapolis ...
Perhaps you will need to go back and recheck the photos after
you have studied the ORER(s).
Wheel reports would be nice - if you have them ...

Armed with the above - you should be able to make reasonable
choices and/or ask better questions (which result in better/more
useful answers).

- Research can be both addictive and fun ... Jim

P.S. Finding appropriate cars for pre-WWII freight cars - even
just box cars - can be an exercise in frustration control.
Some times it is even difficult to find an "adequate stand
in" for anything before 1935. Or decals.


Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Jim,

This is definitely a great idea. In fact, since our new friend is interested in the upper midwest, the Delano photos and others found at http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/index.html would be a great start. Many of these photos (some of which we've discussed before) feature tank cars, and almost always give specific dates and locations.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

Jim Betz wrote:

Hi,

Why not start with photos of trains/yards taken in your era(s) and in your area(s) - and if possible even taken on your RR? With just the date and the reporting marks (RR, not number) you should
be able to then go to the appropriate ORER(s) and get car number ranges and other useful data. And probably also fill in some 'likely alternatives' you didn't find a picture of ...
Don't necessarily limit your self too much - a pic of a tank car in Chicago is likely to 'work' for a layout based upon say Dayton
or Minneapolis ... Perhaps you will need to go back and recheck the photos after
you have studied the ORER(s).
Wheel reports would be nice - if you have them ...

Armed with the above - you should be able to make reasonable choices and/or ask better questions (which result in better/more
useful answers).

- Research can be both addictive and fun ... Jim

P.S. Finding appropriate cars for pre-WWII freight cars - even just box cars - can be an exercise in frustration control. Some times it is even difficult to find an "adequate stand in" for anything before 1935. Or decals.



Bruce Smith
 

On Jun 22, 2010, at 12:18 AM, Jim Betz wrote:
P.S. Finding appropriate cars for pre-WWII freight cars - even
just box cars - can be an exercise in frustration control.
Some times it is even difficult to find an "adequate stand
in" for anything before 1935. Or decals.
Jim,

HUH? Perhaps in RTR, but in kits? Can you say "Westerfield"?! <VBG> And Sunshine, F&C, Speedwitch, Red Caboose, P2K Bowser... etc After all, many of the cars for my 1944 date are pre-war. There are a significant number of pre-1935 models available out there. This is true for stock cars, tank cars, reefers, hoppers, and gons as well (less so but still true for flats as well). Yes, there are some holes in the pre-1935 house-cars available, but the number of significant ones is pretty small.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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