Red BallReefers


Rhbale@...
 

Stan is correct. K & D became Kadee, with the name coming from the first
names of the founders, Keith and Dale Edwards, who were identical twins.
Even as adults, they delighted in confusing people about who was who.

Richard Bale

In a message dated 6/24/2010 1:29:33 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
coronadoscalemod@aol.com writes:




Kadee was was formed by Keith and Dale Edwards. I always thought the K was
for Keith and the D was for Dale.

Stan Schwedler

--- In _STMFC@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com) , "Thom
Vanderlip" <thomasvanderlip@...> wrote:

JP,
Wasn't M. Dale Newton the Dee in Kadee? I seem to remember that from
somewhere in the cobwebs of time.
Thom




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


JP Barger
 

Hello, Red Ball & reefer fans: I was recently talking with a person
knowledgeable about Red Ball's operations as an HO freight car kit
manufacturer. The prototypes for almost 100% of Red Ball's approximately 200
kits made by Howell Day in Dunellen, NJ fall into the 1910-1960 period and
almost all of them represent quite accurately their corresponding
prototypes, given the construction methods of WWII HO cars. An interesting
fact is that for one of the kits, there is no prototype. One of the cars
taken over by Howell, when the ownership changed from M. Dale Newton in
1955, was Elwood's Root Beer. Many years ago I learned that there is no
actual Elwood's Root Beer Company, and that MDN made up this carside to
tease one of his employees in Medford, Oregon. Do any of you STMFC members
know any more about this story? And, can you identify any other cars made by
M. Dale or Howell for which there are no prototypes?
I was just thinking that we see the humor in most of the names of fictional
companies put on layout buildings; Some of them are outright side-spltting.
But in this modelling group, we spend enormous time and resources trying to
get every detail of our freight car modelling to match its prototype. For
example, we read on this list in the last week about trying to chase down a
bogus company name on a doctored photo originally used for the purpose of
creating an ad for box car nailable floors. The doctoring attempted to make
the company into a railroad owner. It's an amusing contrast, don't you
think, between the exactness of our approach to freight cars; and, on the
other hand, the free license to rearrange building kits, name them anything
we like, or even free-lance them. I don't have a suggestion to deal with
these two different approaches. I don't even have an opinion-let alone
several different opinions, like some of our friends have. I just thought
you might enjoy the refreshing contrast between constructing cars and
buildings.


Thom Vanderlip <thomasvanderlip@...>
 

JP,
Wasn't M. Dale Newton the Dee in Kadee? I seem to remember that from somewhere in the cobwebs of time.
Thom

----- Original Message -----
From: JP Barger
To: STMFC@yahoo
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 3:36 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Red BallReefers



Hello, Red Ball & reefer fans: I was recently talking with a person
knowledgeable about Red Ball's operations as an HO freight car kit
manufacturer. The prototypes for almost 100% of Red Ball's approximately 200
kits made by Howell Day in Dunellen, NJ fall into the 1910-1960 period and
almost all of them represent quite accurately their corresponding
prototypes, given the construction methods of WWII HO cars. An interesting
fact is that for one of the kits, there is no prototype. One of the cars
taken over by Howell, when the ownership changed from M. Dale Newton in
1955, was Elwood's Root Beer. Many years ago I learned that there is no
actual Elwood's Root Beer Company, and that MDN made up this carside to
tease one of his employees in Medford, Oregon. Do any of you STMFC members
know any more about this story? And, can you identify any other cars made by
M. Dale or Howell for which there are no prototypes?
I was just thinking that we see the humor in most of the names of fictional
companies put on layout buildings; Some of them are outright side-spltting.
But in this modelling group, we spend enormous time and resources trying to
get every detail of our freight car modelling to match its prototype. For
example, we read on this list in the last week about trying to chase down a
bogus company name on a doctored photo originally used for the purpose of
creating an ad for box car nailable floors. The doctoring attempted to make
the company into a railroad owner. It's an amusing contrast, don't you
think, between the exactness of our approach to freight cars; and, on the
other hand, the free license to rearrange building kits, name them anything
we like, or even free-lance them. I don't have a suggestion to deal with
these two different approaches. I don't even have an opinion-let alone
several different opinions, like some of our friends have. I just thought
you might enjoy the refreshing contrast between constructing cars and
buildings.


coronadoscalemodels
 

Kadee was was formed by Keith and Dale Edwards. I always thought the K was for Keith and the D was for Dale.

Stan Schwedler

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Thom Vanderlip" <thomasvanderlip@...> wrote:

JP,
Wasn't M. Dale Newton the Dee in Kadee? I seem to remember that from somewhere in the cobwebs of time.
Thom


Thomas Vanderlip <thomasvanderlip@...>
 

Stan,
You are absolutely right. Darn, not this is going to bug me until I remember..

Thom


Charlie Vlk
 

I think Red Ball figured into their history as well, if for no other reason than it was located up in the Medford area and may have been one of the reasons the brothers Edwards moved there from California.
Charlie Vlk

----- Original Message -----
From: coronadoscalemodels
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 3:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Red BallReefers



Kadee was was formed by Keith and Dale Edwards. I always thought the K was for Keith and the D was for Dale.

Stan Schwedler

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Thom Vanderlip" <thomasvanderlip@...> wrote:
>
> JP,
> Wasn't M. Dale Newton the Dee in Kadee? I seem to remember that from somewhere in the cobwebs of time.
> Thom
>


Charlie Vlk
 

JP-

You bring up an interesting subject..... Real Railroad Photographs that have been professionally altered (pre-digital...by an artist using airbrush, etc..) for business purposes.

I have run across two such photos and I'm sure those on this list have seen others like them....

One is a photo of a typical XM-32 steel boxcar, but instead of "Everywhere West" or "Way of the Zephyrs" it has a "The National Park Line" slogan.

The other is a NE-12 Waycar (the one that Bachmann made in trainset form with the streamlined cupola) that has the normal windows airbrushed into long rectangular picture windows, making it look somewhat like a full-size Tyco car...ughhh!!

Knowing what happens with manufactuers seeming to have radar to zero in on oddball or never-built material, my first inclination was to destroy the photos.... but I did not knowing that it would almost guarantee that somewhere else a copy would pop up and get used.....


Getting back to the original theme, I am not sure if the "Phartz & Howe" Baked Beans car that Con-Cor did in N Scale was inspired by a Red Ball car, but it is likely. There was also a "Burpo Beer" car that I think both Con-Cor and Micro-Trains did that might have been a Red Ball job too.....

Getting back to cars that DID exist, has anyone ever seen an in-service photo of a BREX 50FT steel express reefer BREX 300-329? The last four of the cars 326-329 had "Cream Compartments" and the only photo we've seen of the cars (the builders photo of 326) shows the "B" end of the car and it is not known for sure if the extra, smaller hinged doors were on one end both sides or what.

Charlie Vlk


pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Charlie Vlk:

Getting back to the original theme, I am not sure if the "Phartz & Howe" Baked Beans car that Con-Cor did in N Scale was inspired by a Red Ball car, but it is likely. There was also a "Burpo Beer" car that I think both Con-Cor and Micro-Trains did that might have been a Red Ball job too.....
Old Frothingslosh Pale Ale? Then there were Varney's Firewater & Kicking Horse and Hollywood & Western cars. These two fetch interesting prices on eBay on the rare occasions they turn up. Several years ago I picked up a mid-'50s vintage Hobbyline boxcar lettered for E&H Model Hobbies of Philadelphia. In the early '50s E&H was my go-to mail order hobby supplier, and my stock of rail and stripwood still resides in an E&H corrugated cardboard mailing box. Steam era prototype models? Certainly not, but for many of us they are useful touchstones to our early days in the hobby.

Tom Madden, son and grandson of Gulf oil distributors/dealers :-)


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
Getting back to the original theme, I am not sure if the "Phartz & Howe" Baked Beans car that Con-Cor did in N Scale was inspired by a Red Ball car, but it is likely. There was also a "Burpo Beer" car that I think both Con-Cor and Micro-Trains did that might have been a Red Ball job too.....
Those were both Main Line wood kits in HO, IIRC. I'm not aware Red Ball did either one. I bet Denny knows.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

GUYZ,

            Me second son found that very same car and proceeded to
put it in a display case with a sign that read, "Our Dad can't be beat"
where everyone comming into the building could see it.
He didn't sit well for a couple days.
His mother choked as she was laughing so hard.
I now know where EVERYTHING is stashed, including this car.

Fred Freitas
able to laugh it off, finally.




________________________________
From: pullmanboss <tcmadden@q.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 5:24:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Red BallReefers

 
Charlie Vlk:

Getting back to the original theme, I am not sure if the "Phartz & Howe" Baked Beans car that Con-Cor did in N Scale was inspired by a Red Ball car, but it is likely. There was also a "Burpo Beer" car that I think both Con-Cor and Micro-Trains did that might have been a Red Ball job too.....
Old Frothingslosh Pale Ale? Then there were Varney's Firewater & Kicking Horse and Hollywood & Western cars. These two fetch interesting prices on eBay on the rare occasions they turn up. Several years ago I picked up a mid-'50s vintage Hobbyline boxcar lettered for E&H Model Hobbies of Philadelphia. In the early '50s E&H was my go-to mail order hobby supplier, and my stock of rail and stripwood still resides in an E&H corrugated cardboard mailing box. Steam era prototype models? Certainly not, but for many of us they are useful touchstones to our early days in the hobby.

Tom Madden, son and grandson of Gulf oil distributors/dealers :-)


Frank Pearsall
 

The Phartz & Howe was done in HO scale by H&D Scale Model back in the 1960s and 70s. Olde Frothingslosh Ale was done in HO scale by Ye Olde Huff N' Puff (still being done by them as a 50' reefer). Don't know about Burpo.

Frank Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.
Narrow Trak 10
(Oct 8, 9, 2010)

On Jun 25, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Charlie Vlk wrote:
Getting back to the original theme, I am not sure if the "Phartz &
Howe" Baked Beans car that Con-Cor did in N Scale was inspired by a
Red Ball car, but it is likely. There was also a "Burpo Beer" car
that I think both Con-Cor and Micro-Trains did that might have been
a Red Ball job too.....
Those were both Main Line wood kits in HO, IIRC. I'm not aware
Red Ball did either one. I bet Denny knows.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Frank Pearsall wrote:
The Phartz & Howe was done in HO scale by H&D Scale Model back in the 1960s and 70s. Olde Frothingslosh Ale was done in HO scale by Ye Olde Huff N' Puff (still being done by them as a 50' reefer). Don't know about Burpo.
Right, those are the originals. DId Main Line reissue any of these?


Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Charlie

I assume you have BRHS Bulletin #12...

The only other photo I've seen was in Mainline Modeler, Feb 1987.

Tim O'Connor

Getting back to cars that DID exist, has anyone ever seen an in-service photo of a BREX 50FT steel express reefer BREX 300-329? The last four of the cars 326-329 had "Cream Compartments" and the only photo we've seen of the cars (the builders photo of 326) shows the "B" end of the car and it is not known for sure if the extra, smaller hinged doors were on one end both sides or what.
Charlie Vlk


StephenK
 

I sold a set of Olde Frothingslosh Pale Stale Ale car sides on EBay a few years ago. Mine were published by the NMRA, if I remember correctly, and had all scales on both side of a single sheet of card. I still may have another set around somewhere.

I will post a photo in the photo section.

Steve Kay

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Frank Pearsall <plans@...> wrote:

The Phartz & Howe was done in HO scale by H&D Scale Model back in the 1960s and 70s. Olde Frothingslosh Ale was done in HO scale by Ye Olde Huff N' Puff (still being done by them as a 50' reefer). Don't know about Burpo.

Frank Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.
Narrow Trak 10
(Oct 8, 9, 2010)

On Jun 25, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Charlie Vlk wrote:
Getting back to the original theme, I am not sure if the "Phartz &
Howe" Baked Beans car that Con-Cor did in N Scale was inspired by a
Red Ball car, but it is likely. There was also a "Burpo Beer" car
that I think both Con-Cor and Micro-Trains did that might have been
a Red Ball job too.....
Those were both Main Line wood kits in HO, IIRC. I'm not aware
Red Ball did either one. I bet Denny knows.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Frank Pearsall
 

Good morning:

Don't know. Main Line eventually ended up with Ye Olde Huff N' Puff. I don't remember if Main Line had purchased H&D. I'll contact YOHNP and see if they can provide any information.

Of course we do know for sure that Olde Frothingslosh was the creation of our now deceased (April 1999) mutual friend, Rege Cordic. One of the most creative people I've ever met.

Anyway, we're getting off topic so I'd better quit.

Frank Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.

On Jun 25, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Right, those are the originals. Did Main Line reissue any of these?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

Frank Pearsall wrote:
The Phartz & Howe was done in HO scale by H&D Scale Model back in
the 1960s and 70s. Olde Frothingslosh Ale was done in HO scale by Ye
Olde Huff N' Puff (still being done by them as a 50' reefer). Don't
know about Burpo.


JP Barger
 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Thom Vanderlip
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 3:44 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Red BallReefers



JP,
Wasn't M. Dale Newton the Dee in Kadee? I seem to remember that from
somewhere in the cobwebs of time.
Thom
----- Original Message -----
From: JP Barger
To: STMFC@yahoo
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 3:36 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Red BallReefers

Hello, Red Ball & reefer fans: I was recently talking with a person
knowledgeable about Red Ball's operations as an HO freight car kit
manufacturer. The prototypes for almost 100% of Red Ball's approximately
200
kits made by Howell Day in Dunellen, NJ fall into the 1910-1960 period and
almost all of them represent quite accurately their corresponding
prototypes, given the construction methods of WWII HO cars. An interesting
fact is that for one of the kits, there is no prototype. One of the cars
taken over by Howell, when the ownership changed from M. Dale Newton in
1955, was Elwood's Root Beer. Many years ago I learned that there is no
actual Elwood's Root Beer Company, and that MDN made up this carside to
tease one of his employees in Medford, Oregon. Do any of you STMFC members
know any more about this story? And, can you identify any other cars made
by
M. Dale or Howell for which there are no prototypes?
I was just thinking that we see the humor in most of the names of
fictional
companies put on layout buildings; Some of them are outright
side-spltting.
But in this modelling group, we spend enormous time and resources trying
to
get every detail of our freight car modelling to match its prototype. For
example, we read on this list a few weeks ago about trying to chase
down a
bogus company name on a doctored photo originally used for the purpose of
creating an ad for box car nailable floors. The doctoring attempted to
make
the company into a railroad owner. It's an amusing contrast, don't you
think, between the exactness of our approach to freight cars; and, on the
other hand, the free license to rearrange building kits, name them
anything
we like, or even free-lance them. I don't have a suggestion to deal with
these two different approaches. I don't even have an opinion-let alone
several different opinions, like some of our friends have. I just thought
you might enjoy the refreshing contrast between constructing cars and
buildings.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

JP Barger wrote:
The prototypes for almost 100% of Red Ball's approximately 200 kits made by Howell Day in Dunellen, NJ fall into the 1910-1960 period and almost all of them represent quite accurately their corresponding prototypes . . .
Is this a statement that Howell Day made the originals of the Red Ball kits? I thought the great majority were created when Newton ran the company in Oregon. No?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Benjamin Hom
 

Thom Vanderlip asked:
"Wasn't M. Dale Newton the Dee in Kadee?"

No.  Dee = Dale Edwards.
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/kadee.htm


Ben Hom


rwitt_2000
 


JP Barger wrote:
The prototypes for almost 100% of Red Ball's approximately 200 kits
made by Howell Day in Dunellen, NJ fall into the 1910-1960 period
and almost all of them represent quite accurately their
corresponding prototypes . . .
Tony Thompson replied:

Is this a statement that Howell Day made the originals of the
Red Ball kits? I thought the great majority were created when Newton
ran the company in Oregon. No?
Tony,

I believe you are correct.

I am looking at a copy of a Red Ball catalog no. 5 (I can't find a date)
issued by M. Dale Newton Co. and much of the line manufactured and
distributed by Howell Day are listed in this catalog including the line
of cast metal trucks. I find illustrations for 40 reefer sides/kits so
maybe Howell Day did add more reefer sides to the line after he acquired
it. Howell Day did add some items as I purchased "aluminum foil" kits of
1923 ARA box cars and he acquired the old Kurtz-Kraft PS-1 box car kits.
I don't see the cast metal kits for the PRR X23 and R7 in the Red Ball
catalog issued by Dale Newton. Also Howell Day imported brass models in
the 1960s.

Bob Witt