Rock Island aluminum box cars


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Though strictly speaking, these were passenger express cars, AAR class BX, they LOOKED like freight cars <g> and I'm sure someone on this list knows about them. I have a partly-built Sunshine kit for these, but no photos, and don't know what kind of trucks they had. Number series RI 20060-20069. `Anyone?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 4, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Though strictly speaking, these were passenger express cars,
AAR class BX, they LOOKED like freight cars <g> and I'm sure someone
on this list knows about them. I have a partly-built Sunshine kit for
these, but no photos, and don't know what kind of trucks they had.
Number series RI 20060-20069. `Anyone?
Tony,
Check p.5 of RP CYC Vol. 6.
Ed Hawkins


Dennis Williams
 

I'm building one, too.  Dennis

--- On Sun, 7/4/10, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:


From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Rock Island aluminum box cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 1:43 PM


 



Though strictly speaking, these were passenger express cars,
AAR class BX, they LOOKED like freight cars <g> and I'm sure someone
on this list knows about them. I have a partly-built Sunshine kit for
these, but no photos, and don't know what kind of trucks they had.
Number series RI 20060-20069. `Anyone?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:
Check p.5 of RP CYC Vol. 6.
Thanks, Ed. I'm embarrassed to admit I DID have a nagging thought that there were published photos somewhere--but blanked on exactly where. Now I know.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Paul Lyons
 

Tony,

Mine has languished half built for years from not only not being able to find a suitable truck, but also from the fact the Youngstown doors on the Sunshine kit are wrong. The prototype has a very unusal 4-4-4-4 corrugation pattern. I was going to make a pattern, but drifted on to other projects.

Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, Jul 4, 2010 1:43 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Rock Island aluminum box cars




Though strictly speaking, these were passenger express cars,
AAR class BX, they LOOKED like freight cars <g> and I'm sure someone
on this list knows about them. I have a partly-built Sunshine kit for
these, but no photos, and don't know what kind of trucks they had.
Number series RI 20060-20069. `Anyone?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


 

Truck type are Barber S-4 swing hanger.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Sun, 7/4/10, Dennis Williams <pennsy6200@...> wrote:


From: Dennis Williams <pennsy6200@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Rock Island aluminum box cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 3:59 PM


 



I'm building one, too.  Dennis 

--- On Sun, 7/4/10, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Rock Island aluminum box cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 1:43 PM

 

Though strictly speaking, these were passenger express cars,
AAR class BX, they LOOKED like freight cars <g> and I'm sure someone
on this list knows about them. I have a partly-built Sunshine kit for
these, but no photos, and don't know what kind of trucks they had.
Number series RI 20060-20069. `Anyone?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

And is there any model that resembles the S-4 truck in HO scale?

Tim O'Connor

At 7/4/2010 07:45 PM Sunday, you wrote:
Truck type are Barber S-4 swing hanger.
Rich Christie


 

Bethlehem Car Works #1213 Barber Stabilized Timkin Trucks 5 1/2' w/b Axle to Axle, looks kind of close.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Sun, 7/4/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Rock Island aluminum box cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, July 4, 2010, 6:58 PM


 




And is there any model that resembles the S-4 truck in HO scale?

Tim O'Connor

At 7/4/2010 07:45 PM Sunday, you wrote:
Truck type are Barber S-4 swing hanger.
Rich Christie










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Clark Propst
 

There's a nice color photo in the RI Morning Sun equipment book.

Clark Propst


Aley, Jeff A
 

Tony,

No worries: Head-End cars are ON TOPIC for STMFC.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Anthony Thompson
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 1:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Rock Island aluminum box cars



Though strictly speaking, these were passenger express cars,
AAR class BX, they LOOKED like freight cars <g> and I'm sure someone
on this list knows about them. I have a partly-built Sunshine kit for
these, but no photos, and don't know what kind of trucks they had.
Number series RI 20060-20069. `Anyone?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

These handsome cars bring up once again a mystery about the lettering coloring: Sunshine includes very nice all-black decals. However, Gordon Varney produced a very nice model of this car in 8/1946 (B-37) #20069, and the printed Bristol board sides showed both the ROCK ISLAND logo as solid *red* , and ROCKETS in *red*, not black. When Varney produced the same model in its all-metal version c. 1950 (B-60) #20069 , he continued the same red/black lettering pattern. Overall, the combination of silver, red, and black made for a very handsome combination!

Now, Gordon Varney was known to be pretty accurate on his sides, if only because he used his own photographs as a direct, and sometimes exact guide to printing.

Now, I have examined as close as possible the photo of the first of these cars #20060 in V6 of the RPC, but because of of the orthochromatic film used, I am simply unable to discern whether or not the lettering was monochrome black, or was indeed a mixture of black and red. The logo is outline-only, may be either black or red, most probably the former.

So, perhaps these cars had several different lettering color schemes as delivered, OR, the red scheme was replaced later.

As to the truck discussion, note that apparently #20064-9 had roller bearings!

I too have one of the Sunshine kits awaiting it fate. My present inclination is to finish it with Alcad, the difficulty being as to how to neatly paint beforehand -or after- the black ladders and appliances; and then somehow copy the decal set in red so that I can create the red logo and lettering. Advice for the effort in the latter regard invited!

Denny



Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Denny Anspach wrote:
These handsome cars bring up once again a mystery about the lettering coloring . . . Now, I have examined as close as possible the photo of the first of these cars #20060 in V6 of the RPC, but because of of the orthochromatic film used, I am simply unable to discern whether or not the lettering was monochrome black, or was indeed a mixture of black and red. The logo is outline-only, may be either black or red, most probably the former.
I disagree, Denny. Careful examination of the lettering DOES show some of it a distinct gray, and other a distinct black. It's my observation that the "Route of the Rockets" slogan is gray, and so is the emblem. Presumably these are the red parts.
Modeling, however, is a problem in the absence of appropriate red decals.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Denny wrote:
<I too have one of the Sunshine kits awaiting it fate. My present
<inclination is to finish it with Alcad, the difficulty being as to how
<to neatly paint beforehand -or after- the black ladders and
<appliances; and then somehow copy the decal set in red so that I can
<create the red logo and lettering. Advice for the effort in the
<latter regard invited!

The decals that are black and need to be red (if everyone agrees) can be
scanned at around 600 dpi (as a color file) and the resulting image opened
in Photoshop Elements (or Photoshop). Click on the color Swatches and select
a red color but clicking on it. That color will show up at the bottom of the
Tool Box. Click on that color at the bottom of the tool box. That will open
up a dialogue box which will let you fine-tune color.

Once you are satisfied with the color, use the Paint Bucket Tool and "pour"
the color into the black areas of the scan. Print onto decal paper and you
are done.


Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Tim O'Connor
 

FWIW the old Champ decal set HB-9 is entirely black lettering.

Were these RI aluminum cars ever repainted Pullman green? All
of the other 200xx series (AAR and PS-1) box cars were green as
far as I know.

Tim O'Connor

At 7/5/2010 02:52 PM Monday, you wrote:
These handsome cars bring up once again a mystery about the lettering
coloring: Sunshine includes very nice all-black decals. However,
Gordon Varney produced a very nice model of this car in 8/1946 (B-37)
#20069, and the printed Bristol board sides showed both the ROCK
ISLAND logo as solid *red* , and ROCKETS in *red*, not black. When
Varney produced the same model in its all-metal version c. 1950 (B-60)
#20069 , he continued the same red/black lettering pattern. Overall,
the combination of silver, red, and black made for a very handsome
combination!

Now, Gordon Varney was known to be pretty accurate on his sides, if
only because he used his own photographs as a direct, and sometimes
exact guide to printing.

Now, I have examined as close as possible the photo of the first of
these cars #20060 in V6 of the RPC, but because of of the
orthochromatic film used, I am simply unable to discern whether or not
the lettering was monochrome black, or was indeed a mixture of black
and red. The logo is outline-only, may be either black or red, most
probably the former.

So, perhaps these cars had several different lettering color schemes
as delivered, OR, the red scheme was replaced later.

As to the truck discussion, note that apparently #20064-9 had roller
bearings!

I too have one of the Sunshine kits awaiting it fate. My present
inclination is to finish it with Alcad, the difficulty being as to how
to neatly paint beforehand -or after- the black ladders and
appliances; and then somehow copy the decal set in red so that I can
create the red logo and lettering. Advice for the effort in the
latter regard invited!

Denny


Tim O'Connor
 

I knew I'd heard this debate before!

Sure enough Denny, you posted a nearly identical message on
October 6, 2003 (almost seven years ago).

And in six plus years I take it no one has located a color photo
of the cars in question?

Clark Propst had an excellent reply back then, explaining that the
M&StL cars had both green and black lettering, and none of the decal
sets (Sunshine/Champ) is 100% correct for M&StL but if you use them
both you can get it right.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. The LIFE magazine photo of RI #20060 shows that the 2nd panel
from the left, on the right side of the car, is EMBOSSED with the
Reynolds Aluminum logo! Try to do that with decals!

P.P.S. The LIFE photo also shows marker light brackets on the end.
Does the Sunshine model include those?

P.P.P.S. Speaking of brake hose brackets, does anyone make a bracket
that includes a brake hose and signal hose (over-under) as mounted
on these express service box cars?

At 7/5/2010 02:52 PM Monday, you wrote:
These handsome cars bring up once again a mystery about the lettering
coloring: Sunshine includes very nice all-black decals. However,
Gordon Varney produced a very nice model of this car in 8/1946 (B-37)
#20069, and the printed Bristol board sides showed both the ROCK
ISLAND logo as solid *red* , and ROCKETS in *red*, not black. When
Varney produced the same model in its all-metal version c. 1950 (B-60)
#20069 , he continued the same red/black lettering pattern. Overall,
the combination of silver, red, and black made for a very handsome
combination!

Now, Gordon Varney was known to be pretty accurate on his sides, if
only because he used his own photographs as a direct, and sometimes
exact guide to printing.

Now, I have examined as close as possible the photo of the first of
these cars #20060 in V6 of the RPC, but because of of the
orthochromatic film used, I am simply unable to discern whether or not
the lettering was monochrome black, or was indeed a mixture of black
and red. The logo is outline-only, may be either black or red, most
probably the former.

So, perhaps these cars had several different lettering color schemes
as delivered, OR, the red scheme was replaced later.

As to the truck discussion, note that apparently #20064-9 had roller
bearings!

I too have one of the Sunshine kits awaiting it fate. My present
inclination is to finish it with Alcad, the difficulty being as to how
to neatly paint beforehand -or after- the black ladders and
appliances; and then somehow copy the decal set in red so that I can
create the red logo and lettering. Advice for the effort in the
latter regard invited!

Denny


Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 5, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

And in six plus years I take it no one has located a color photo
of the cars in question?
Tim,
There's a color photo of 20064 on page 33 of the Rock Island Color
Guide Morning Sun book. The car has a lot of grime on it, and the photo
was taken sometime during the mid to late 1960s based on other subjects
in the view. In any event, the lettering looks black to me FWIW. Of
course, it could always be a repainted car since it was at least 20
years old when the photo was taken.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:
There's a color photo of 20064 on page 33 of the Rock Island Color Guide Morning Sun book. The car has a lot of grime on it, and the photo was taken sometime during the mid to late 1960s based on other subjects in the view. In any event, the lettering looks black to me FWIW.
Ed, how about the original B&W print used for RPCYC? It may be more dependable than the version printed, as far as detecting gray vs. black lettering.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
And is there any model that resembles the S-4 truck in HO scale?
It's a little hard to tell in the RP CYC photo, but the trucks look to me like pedestal trucks.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Thomas Baker
 

The discussion of RI aluminum cars reminds me that the M&StL also had 10 aluminum box cars. The photos of the cars I have seen are from their later years when at least one or two were converted as mail storage/express cars and coupled behind the M&StL RDC-3 with its small passenger compartment.

I am curious about the lettering on the cars in their earlier years.

1. I have an old set of CHAMP decals in green lettering, supposedly intended for these cars. Is that prototypically correct? It's not hard to believe since the GM&O also had a few aluminum box cars with red lettering, didn't they?

2. I recall,possibly incorrectly, that the RI aluminum cars had six riveted panels, not five. Was that also true for the M&StL cars?

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... on behalf of Aley, Jeff A
Sent: Mon 7/5/2010 1:50 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Rock Island aluminum box cars

Tony,

No worries: Head-End cars are ON TOPIC for STMFC.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Anthony Thompson
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 1:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Rock Island aluminum box cars



Though strictly speaking, these were passenger express cars,
AAR class BX, they LOOKED like freight cars <g> and I'm sure someone
on this list knows about them. I have a partly-built Sunshine kit for
these, but no photos, and don't know what kind of trucks they had.
Number series RI 20060-20069. `Anyone?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tom Baker wrote:
2. I recall,possibly incorrectly, that the RI aluminum cars had six riveted panels, not five.
Yep, you're incorrect in part. They did not have five, all right; they had seven.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history