GATX Lettering, c. 1950


golden1014
 

Gentlemen,
 
I'm ready to decal an Overland 8k GATX tank car (basicallythe WWI-era car), and need some help/advice on lettering. 
 
I've noticed in photos--Ted's Tank Car handbook in particular--that early GATX lettering had a line above and below the GATX reporting marks.  I've also noticed that the lines were eliminated in the mid-50s.  Lettering specifics for GATX cars are not covered in this or other documents.  If I model 1950, what's the appropriate reporting mark scheme?  Lines or no lines? 
 
I ordered the Champ GATX decals and there are no lines above/below the reporting marks in the set.  If lines are appropriate for my era, would anyone know where to get the appropriate decals?
 
Thank You!
 
John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bruce Smith
 

John,

Try Black Cat Decals
http://www.greatdecals.com/BlackCat.htm

That's where I got the decals for my red caboose brass 8K GATX tanks. The decals have the lines, although you could also harvest them form another set as well ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Jul 15, 2010, at 11:38 AM, John Golden wrote:

Gentlemen,

I'm ready to decal an Overland 8k GATX tank car (basicallythe WWI- era car), and need some help/advice on lettering.

I've noticed in photos--Ted's Tank Car handbook in particular--that early GATX lettering had a line above and below the GATX reporting marks. I've also noticed that the lines were eliminated in the mid-50s. Lettering specifics for GATX cars are not covered in this or other documents. If I model 1950, what's the appropriate reporting mark scheme? Lines or no lines?

I ordered the Champ GATX decals and there are no lines above/below the reporting marks in the set. If lines are appropriate for my era, would anyone know where to get the appropriate decals?

Thank You!

John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN




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James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

John, 



I believe the line above and below the reporting marks was recommended, but not required, practice by the AAR or ICC.



In reviewing numerous stenciling diagrams of steam era freight cars in the N&WHS archives collection, as well as the corresponding notes in the revision books, the recommended use of the lines was removed in the early 1950s.



My guess is that you should use the lines above and below the reporting marks for your era.



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Golden" <golden1014@...>
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:38:27 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] GATX Lettering, c. 1950

 




Gentlemen,
 
I'm ready to decal an Overland 8k GATX tank car (basicallythe WWI-era car), and need some help/advice on lettering. 
 
I've noticed in photos--Ted's Tank Car handbook in particular--that early GATX lettering had a line above and below the GATX reporting marks.  I've also noticed that the lines were eliminated in the mid-50s.  Lettering specifics for GATX cars are not covered in this or other documents.  If I model 1950, what's the appropriate reporting mark scheme?  Lines or no lines? 
 
I ordered the Champ GATX decals and there are no lines above/below the reporting marks in the set.  If lines are appropriate for my era, would anyone know where to get the appropriate decals?
 
Thank You!
 
John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:38 AM, John Golden wrote:

Gentlemen,

I'm ready to decal an Overland 8k GATX tank car (basicallythe WWI-
era car), and need some help/advice on lettering.

I've noticed in photos--Ted's Tank Car handbook in particular--that
early GATX lettering had a line above and below the GATX reporting
marks. I've also noticed that the lines were eliminated in the
mid-50s. Lettering specifics for GATX cars are not covered in this
or other documents. If I model 1950, what's the appropriate
reporting mark scheme? Lines or no lines?
John, I don't have an exact date but it was about 1945, as best I can
determine from photographic evidence. So the answer depends on how
much you want to weather your model. In 1950, there were still a
bunch of GATX cars around with the lines above and below the
reporting marks and numbers, but they were more less dirty and
weathered. To represent a recently repainted car, you should omit
the lines.

I ordered the Champ GATX decals and there are no lines above/below
the reporting marks in the set. If lines are appropriate for my
era, would anyone know where to get the appropriate decals?
The best GATX decals I know are made by STMFC list member Al Ferguson
in Canada (Black Cat Decals). They're based on photos in my
collection and include a variety of correct dimensional and tank test
data, as well as having reporting marks and number both with and
without lines. The e-mail I have for Al is <ajfergus@...>.

Richard Hendrickson


bob_karig <karig@...>
 

The removal of the lines above and below the reporting marks was approved by letter ballot to take effect on March 1, 1957.

Bob Karig


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 15, 2010, at 4:03 PM, bob_karig wrote:

The removal of the lines above and below the reporting marks was
approved by letter ballot to take effect on March 1, 1957.
True. However, to avoid confusion, note that photographic evidence
shows that General American stopped using them more than a decade
earlier. It may be added that many other railroads and car owners
either stopped applying the lines long before 1957 or never used them
at all. The Santa Fe, for instance, never had lines above the
reporting marks and below the numbers before ca. 1925, when the
revised AAR lettering standards were adopted, and then applied the
lines for only about a year before discontinuing their use. The ARA/
AAR lettering standards were never, in effect, more than recommended
practice and at various times many railroads had their own notions
about the style and location of lettering, though not the content of
it: examples that come immediately to mind include Chicago & Eastern
Illinois, Chicago & Northwestern, Maine Central, Minneapolis & St.
Louis, Northern Pacific, Pennsylvania, Southern, Wabash, and Western
Maryland.

Richard Hendrickson


bob_karig <karig@...>
 

Good point, Richard. Indeed, Section L of the AAR Manual of Standards and Recommended Practices identifies the lettering and marking of cars as an AAR Standard. However, as you point out, so many railroads deviated from that standard that they became, in effect, a Recommended Practice, despite the compaints of many of the member railroads. What railroad is going to reject a car because it isn't lettered properly?

Bob Karig


bob_karig <karig@...>
 

To make your case, if you examine the 1953 Car Builders Cyclopedia, you'll see in the tank car section that the GATX car built in 1950 had the lines ("bars"), and those built in 1951 and later did not.

Bob Karig


al_brown03
 

Kline and Culotta, "The Postwar Freight Car Fleet", p 213, shows GATX 22526 without lines as near as I can tell. The picture's dated 1947.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "bob_karig" <karig@...> wrote:

To make your case, if you examine the 1953 Car Builders Cyclopedia, you'll see in the tank car section that the GATX car built in 1950 had the lines ("bars"), and those built in 1951 and later did not.

Bob Karig