model car weight


Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

With the growing use of semi-scale wheel sets and their improved rolling characteristics, has anyone done any research or have an opinion on the suggested weight of model freight cars?
I thought I had heard one opinion that the the NMRA RP for car weight are somewhat heavy for today's better rolling models.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver


Mark
 

One party, NMRA member, told us the original weight requirements were put in place for the early trucks. Guy models the B&O in the fifties. He had quite a few articles in Railroad Model Journal.
I usually use two large nuts per boxcar. Leave one truck loose and keep the other tighter.
Prefer the semiscale wheels and sergent couplers.

Mark Morgan
Sent on the Sprint« Now Network from my BlackBerry«

-----Original Message-----
From: "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...>
Sender: STMFC@...
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:38:06
To: <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] model car weight

With the growing use of semi-scale wheel sets and their improved rolling characteristics, has anyone done any research or have an opinion on the suggested weight of model freight cars?
I thought I had heard one opinion that the the NMRA RP for car weight are somewhat heavy for today's better rolling models.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver


William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Group,

I continue to weight my cars per the NMRA recommendations. And like Mark, my freight cars are equipped with semi-scale wheel sets and Sergent couplers. I do not really worry about rolling qualities very much as my trains "never" exceed twelve cars. And for most operations maybe no more than eight cars.

My recommendation is to stick with what we know works. This should, or could, result in less hassles later.

Happy Modeling
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Jul 21, 2010, at 2:48 PM, bnonut@... wrote:

One party, NMRA member, told us the original weight requirements were put in place for the early trucks. Guy models the B&O in the fifties. He had quite a few articles in Railroad Model Journal.
I usually use two large nuts per boxcar. Leave one truck loose and keep the other tighter.
Prefer the semiscale wheels and sergent couplers.

Mark Morgan
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...>
Sender: STMFC@...
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:38:06
To: <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] model car weight

With the growing use of semi-scale wheel sets and their improved rolling characteristics, has anyone done any research or have an opinion on the suggested weight of model freight cars?
I thought I had heard one opinion that the the NMRA RP for car weight are somewhat heavy for today's better rolling models.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Pierre--

The semi-scale wheels are still to NMRA RP-25 specs, so their treads still occupy the same surface area on the rails as Code 110 wheelsets. I think that what we're seeing is better rolling wheelsets because of the near-universal use of metal wheelsets by STMFC modellers, and the improved quality of the needlepoint axle ends on them.

As for car weight, I've read from several sources that opine that consistency in weight is important, not slavish adherance to NMRA specs.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

With the growing use of semi-scale wheel sets and their improved rolling characteristics, has anyone done any research or have an opinion on the suggested weight of model freight cars?
I thought I had heard one opinion that the the NMRA RP for car weight are somewhat heavy for today's better rolling models.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver


Gary Roe
 

Pierre,

I agree with Steve on the uniformity being the key. The HO Scale club I
belong to does not weigh to NMRA Specs, rather something a bit lighter, due
to our grades. We very seldom have any trouble due to weight issues.

On a related note, the Jul/Aug issue of N Scale Railroading magazine had an
article about a test performed by Brian Morgan on all the different wheel
sets for N Scale equipment. I expected to see that metal wheelsets rolled
better than plastic ones, and his test bore this out......on new wheels.
Once he had run them for 1000 scale miles (he said he had a lot of time),
the metal wheelsets rollability dropped off quite a bit, while the
Micro-Trains plastic low profile wheelsets hardly dropped off at all.

gary roe
quincy, illinois

_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Steve Lucas
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 4:59 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: model car weight




Pierre--

The semi-scale wheels are still to NMRA RP-25 specs, so their treads still
occupy the same surface area on the rails as Code 110 wheelsets. I think
that what we're seeing is better rolling wheelsets because of the
near-universal use of metal wheelsets by STMFC modellers, and the improved
quality of the needlepoint axle ends on them.

As for car weight, I've read from several sources that opine that
consistency in weight is important, not slavish adherance to NMRA specs.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Pierre"
<pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

With the growing use of semi-scale wheel sets and their improved rolling
characteristics, has anyone done any research or have an opinion on the
suggested weight of model freight cars?
I thought I had heard one opinion that the the NMRA RP for car weight are
somewhat heavy for today's better rolling models.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver


Tim O'Connor
 

Gary

A lot of factors influence performance - metal or plastic, sintered or
machined metal, machined brass or machined nickel silver, dirt or oil on
the track, pointed or shoulder journals, fat taper or narrow taper, metal
or abs or delrin sideframes, equalized vs nonequalized, sprung or unsprung...
But all else being equal, my experience is that metal wheels outlast and
outperform plastic wheels by a huge margin in HO scale. If you think about
the physics of wheels on rails, the weight of an N scale car per square
centimeter of rail contact is far less than it is for HO scale cars, so
direct performance comparisons are not meaningful between N and HO scales
(or between HO and O, or O scale and 1:1)

Then add car weight variability to all that to really confuddle things!

Tim O'Connor

On a related note, the Jul/Aug issue of N Scale Railroading magazine had an
article about a test performed by Brian Morgan on all the different wheel
sets for N Scale equipment. I expected to see that metal wheelsets rolled
better than plastic ones, and his test bore this out......on new wheels.
Once he had run them for 1000 scale miles (he said he had a lot of time),
the metal wheelsets rollability dropped off quite a bit, while the
Micro-Trains plastic low profile wheelsets hardly dropped off at all.

gary roe
quincy, illinois


Gary Roe
 

Tim,

I agree. I prefer metal wheels for various reasons; but was really
surprised at the findings.

In his rollability testing, Brian used the same box car with the same
trucks, swapping out the wheelsets for the tests. So the only variable was
the wheelsets themselves.

gary roe
quincy, illinois

_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: model car weight




Gary

A lot of factors influence performance - metal or plastic, sintered or
machined metal, machined brass or machined nickel silver, dirt or oil on
the track, pointed or shoulder journals, fat taper or narrow taper, metal
or abs or delrin sideframes, equalized vs nonequalized, sprung or
unsprung...
But all else being equal, my experience is that metal wheels outlast and
outperform plastic wheels by a huge margin in HO scale. If you think about
the physics of wheels on rails, the weight of an N scale car per square
centimeter of rail contact is far less than it is for HO scale cars, so
direct performance comparisons are not meaningful between N and HO scales
(or between HO and O, or O scale and 1:1)

Then add car weight variability to all that to really confuddle things!

Tim O'Connor

On a related note, the Jul/Aug issue of N Scale Railroading magazine had an
article about a test performed by Brian Morgan on all the different wheel
sets for N Scale equipment. I expected to see that metal wheelsets rolled
better than plastic ones, and his test bore this out......on new wheels.
Once he had run them for 1000 scale miles (he said he had a lot of time),
the metal wheelsets rollability dropped off quite a bit, while the
Micro-Trains plastic low profile wheelsets hardly dropped off at all.

gary roe
quincy, illinois


Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Mark,
 
          May I ask how the use of Sargent couplers is working out for your operating sessions?
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 7/21/10, bnonut@... <bnonut@...> wrote:


From: bnonut@... <bnonut@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] model car weight
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 5:48 PM


One party, NMRA member, told us the original weight requirements were put in place for the early trucks. Guy models the B&O in the fifties. He had quite a few articles in Railroad Model Journal.
I usually use two large nuts per boxcar. Leave one truck loose and keep the other tighter.
Prefer the semiscale wheels and sergent couplers.

Mark Morgan
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...>
Sender: STMFC@...
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:38:06
To: <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] model car weight

With the growing use of semi-scale wheel sets and their improved rolling characteristics, has anyone done any research or have an opinion on the suggested weight of model freight cars?
I thought I had heard one opinion that the the NMRA RP for car weight are somewhat heavy for today's better rolling models.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gary Roe wrote:
In his rollability testing, Brian used the same box car with the same trucks, swapping out the wheelsets for the tests. So the only variable was the wheelsets themselves.
And the degree of wear . . .

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Mark
 

Work great. I have a layout at home. Put a sergent on the rear FTb and another on a RibSide Milwaukee boxcar. The Boxcar had a #58 on the other end. Ran this set for around a month. Went to change engines and forgot about the Sergent. No problems and hope to replace all with these. They look and act like the real thing.

Mark Morgan

--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:

From: Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] model car weight
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 7:30 PM







 









Mark,

 

          May I ask how the use of Sargent couplers is working out for your operating sessions?

 

Fred Freitas



--- On Wed, 7/21/10, bnonut@... <bnonut@...> wrote:



From: bnonut@... <bnonut@...>

Subject: Re: [STMFC] model car weight

To: STMFC@...

Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 5:48 PM



One party, NMRA member, told us the original weight requirements were put in place for the early trucks. Guy models the B&O in the fifties. He had quite a few articles in Railroad Model Journal.

I usually use two large nuts per boxcar. Leave one truck loose and keep the other tighter.

Prefer the semiscale wheels and sergent couplers.



Mark Morgan

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®



-----Original Message-----

From: "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...>

Sender: STMFC@...

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:38:06

To: <STMFC@...>

Reply-To: STMFC@...

Subject: [STMFC] model car weight



With the growing use of semi-scale wheel sets and their improved rolling characteristics, has anyone done any research or have an opinion on the suggested weight of model freight cars?

I thought I had heard one opinion that the the NMRA RP for car weight are somewhat heavy for today's better rolling models.

Thanks,

Pierre Oliver



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Gary

What I meant was is that you can't draw many useful conclusions
from a test of two wheelsets in one truck -- to find the best
performance you have try many different combinations of trucks,
car weights, wheelsets, etc. If I got the results that your
friend did, my probable conclusion would be that the combination
of that particular metal wheelset in that particular truck on
that particular car wasn't any good! :-)

For the last couple of years I've been roll testing each car
as the "last step" after construction. I get all kinds of results
but I almost always find a combination that works well. I've been
surprised by how well Proto 2000 trucks and wheels roll -- and how
badly some others do. Tahoe trucks are consistently the best of
the best.

Tim O'Connor

In his rollability testing, Brian used the same box car with the same
trucks, swapping out the wheelsets for the tests. So the only variable was
the wheelsets themselves.

gary roe
quincy, illinois

_____

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: model car weight

Gary

A lot of factors influence performance - metal or plastic, sintered or
machined metal, machined brass or machined nickel silver, dirt or oil on
the track, pointed or shoulder journals, fat taper or narrow taper, metal
or abs or delrin sideframes, equalized vs nonequalized, sprung or
unsprung...
But all else being equal, my experience is that metal wheels outlast and
outperform plastic wheels by a huge margin in HO scale. If you think about
the physics of wheels on rails, the weight of an N scale car per square
centimeter of rail contact is far less than it is for HO scale cars, so
direct performance comparisons are not meaningful between N and HO scales
(or between HO and O, or O scale and 1:1)


estcbq@...
 

i have for a number of years used Proto wheel sets in Accurail Bettendorf sideframes and found that combination to be more than acceptable on 3-3/4 oz cars---jim young

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2010 6:58 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: model car weight





Gary

What I meant was is that you can't draw many useful conclusions
from a test of two wheelsets in one truck -- to find the best
performance you have try many different combinations of trucks,
car weights, wheelsets, etc. If I got the results that your
friend did, my probable conclusion would be that the combination
of that particular metal wheelset in that particular truck on
that particular car wasn't any good! :-)

For the last couple of years I've been roll testing each car
as the "last step" after construction. I get all kinds of results
but I almost always find a combination that works well. I've been
surprised by how well Proto 2000 trucks and wheels roll -- and how
badly some others do. Tahoe trucks are consistently the best of
the best.

Tim O'Connor

In his rollability testing, Brian used the same box car with the same
trucks, swapping out the wheelsets for the tests. So the only variable was
the wheelsets themselves.

gary roe
quincy, illinois

_____

Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: model car weight

Gary

A lot of factors influence performance - metal or plastic, sintered or
machined metal, machined brass or machined nickel silver, dirt or oil on
the track, pointed or shoulder journals, fat taper or narrow taper, metal
or abs or delrin sideframes, equalized vs nonequalized, sprung or
unsprung...
But all else being equal, my experience is that metal wheels outlast and
outperform plastic wheels by a huge margin in HO scale. If you think about
the physics of wheels on rails, the weight of an N scale car per square
centimeter of rail contact is far less than it is for HO scale cars, so
direct performance comparisons are not meaningful between N and HO scales
(or between HO and O, or O scale and 1:1)








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


grsjr@att.net <GRSJr@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., bnonut@... wrote:

One party, NMRA member, told us the original weight requirements were put in place for the early trucks. Guy models the B&O in the fifties. He had quite a few articles in Railroad Model Journal.
I usually use two large nuts per boxcar. Leave one truck loose and keep the other tighter.
Prefer the semiscale wheels and sergent couplers.

Mark Morgan
Mark,

Do you use walnuts or pecans?

Ray


Mark
 

Good one!!! Actually the idea from another manufacturer(branchline)!
Hardware store in Bellville,Ohio is where the 3/4 inch ones, coarse thread steel.
Well at work so better get going.

Mark Morgan
Sent on the Sprint« Now Network from my BlackBerry«

-----Original Message-----
From: "grsjr@..." <GRSJr@...>
Sender: STMFC@...
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:56:57
To: <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: model car weight



--- In STMFC@..., bnonut@... wrote:

One party, NMRA member, told us the original weight requirements were put in place for the early trucks. Guy models the B&O in the fifties. He had quite a few articles in Railroad Model Journal.
I usually use two large nuts per boxcar. Leave one truck loose and keep the other tighter.
Prefer the semiscale wheels and sergent couplers.

Mark Morgan
Mark,

Do you use walnuts or pecans?

Ray


William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Mark, Fred, and Group,

If I may, I would like to add some to Mark's response.

I have about ten cars (presently my total operational fleet) equipped with Sergent couplers and as Mark states, they work great. Because my layout is under construction and not yet in operation the experience that I have had with these cars and their couplers has been on the layouts of others. I have operated my small way freight many times without any coupler mishap. The one item that I have noticed is that operations tend to be a bit slower as one is not using the in-track magnetic ramps and also sometimes having to align the coupler manually (just like the real thing). Coupling is a good deal more realistic without the need for a good "bump" on the car being coupled to.

Overall, operations with the Sergent couplers is a very enjoyable experience.

Happy modeling... and operations,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jul 21, 2010, at 6:48 PM, Mark Morgan wrote:

Work great. I have a layout at home. Put a sergent on the rear FTb and another on a RibSide Milwaukee boxcar. The Boxcar had a #58 on the other end. Ran this set for around a month. Went to change engines and forgot about the Sergent. No problems and hope to replace all with these. They look and act like the real thing.

Mark Morgan

--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:

From: Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] model car weight
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 7:30 PM



Mark,



May I ask how the use of Sargent couplers is working out for your operating sessions?



Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 7/21/10, bnonut@... <bnonut@...> wrote:

From: bnonut@... <bnonut@...>

Subject: Re: [STMFC] model car weight

To: STMFC@...

Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 5:48 PM

One party, NMRA member, told us the original weight requirements were put in place for the early trucks. Guy models the B&O in the fifties. He had quite a few articles in Railroad Model Journal.

I usually use two large nuts per boxcar. Leave one truck loose and keep the other tighter.

Prefer the semiscale wheels and sergent couplers.

Mark Morgan

Sent on the Sprint« Now Network from my BlackBerry«

-----Original Message-----

From: "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...>

Sender: STMFC@...

Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:38:06

To: <STMFC@...>

Reply-To: STMFC@...

Subject: [STMFC] model car weight

With the growing use of semi-scale wheel sets and their improved rolling characteristics, has anyone done any research or have an opinion on the suggested weight of model freight cars?

I thought I had heard one opinion that the the NMRA RP for car weight are somewhat heavy for today's better rolling models.

Thanks,

Pierre Oliver

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


reporterllc
 

I have always weighted my cars to NMRA specs. They have been very reliable. I would think that it would be better to err on the side of being heavier than lighter. I think the heavier weight of the metal wheels tracks better than plastic too.

As to the Sergents, I would switch in a heartbeast but like some, I have just a few locations that are out of reach, so I need some sort of automatic coupler. The Kadee 58's are working fine and plastic automatic couplers are bad news in my book as I have had many fail.

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Eric Hansmann
 

Pierre,

I have been adding weight to cars at 75% of the NMRA recommendations. Newer truck sideframes and wheelsets are much better than the materials used when the NMRA recommendations were first implemented. My rolling stock has had many scale miles operating on a club layout with other rolling stock weighted to NMRA recommendations and some weighted a bit more. No problems.

Eric



Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Modeling the railroads of Newburgh, Ohio, circa 1926
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/

--- In STMFC@..., "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

With the growing use of semi-scale wheel sets and their improved rolling characteristics, has anyone done any research or have an opinion on the suggested weight of model freight cars?
I thought I had heard one opinion that the the NMRA RP for car weight are somewhat heavy for today's better rolling models.
Thanks,
Pierre Oliver


David North <davenorth@...>
 

I weight my cars in line with the NMRA RP.

Track and wheels have certainly improve since the RP was established, but as
the RP exists, I see no good reason to mess with it and I find the weight
helps to keep a static car still when coupling another car to it.

(I use Kadee couplers and IM wheels).

At NMRA weight I don't find my cars don't need the 'good bump" Bill referred
to.

Cheers

Dave North


Jared Harper
 

I use pecans because of their elongated shape. It gives a better weight distribution.
Jared Harper
Athens, GA

--- In STMFC@..., "grsjr@..." <GRSJr@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., bnonut@ wrote:

One party, NMRA member, told us the original weight requirements were put in place for the early trucks. Guy models the B&O in the fifties. He had quite a few articles in Railroad Model Journal.
I usually use two large nuts per boxcar. Leave one truck loose and keep the other tighter.
Prefer the semiscale wheels and sergent couplers.

Mark Morgan
Mark,

Do you use walnuts or pecans?

Ray