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research, index,db,yeah, steam era and freight cars, can this group help?
Bushnell.mp77 Account
I am considering an article for a historical society publication related to researching and building a freight car model related to their specific railroad.
My "criteria" (personal) also narrowed my scope by suggesting that it must be steam era - I can justify the model on my steam era railroad even though the prototype is NOT the one I model.
So my first frustration is the fact that WE no longer have the old "trains.com" site to look through previous magazine articles for basic info!
I'm surrounded by YEARS of Model Railroader magazines dating back into the 1940's and an entire collection of Mainline Modelers. Barring looking through each one there is no way to easily glean contents. (Yeah, I know Hundman published article titles each month for previous issues- I even complained to him about that AND MRR had a yearly index but that is a LOT of indexes to look through!) I "wisely" recycled my old "Stephan's" about a decade ago since it was fast getting obsolete and I could use the trains.com. That will teach me!
It would really help to find drawings that I can start with since the article will be as close to "scratch" as I can get.
As far as I can tell when Kalmbach gave their data (supposedly) to the NMRA they might as well have tossed it in the nearest dumpster. I don't have a lot of faith that NMRA will do anything more than committee the data to death or hold the data hostage for tons of money that few will pay.
I will also state for the record that I'm not enamored with the Kalmbach management for their decision. I can no longer state that my collection of magazines is "growing at a steady pace."
So I'm turning to this group. (hope springs eternal and all of that...)
First is anyone (at a minimum) tracking articles related to specific railroads?
Are any historical groups tracking magazine info for specific railroads?
How about a listing of steam era freight car articles?
Is there a chance that maybe a group like RPI has the data in an accessible format?
Does anyone have a good way to locate articles?
A few members are probably "data savvy" and if WE could get the raw data WE could probably access the data and at least create a few "reports" that would be MUCH BETTER than nothing. Heck, at this juncture just a huge PDF file sorted by something as simple as "railroad" is better than nothing. (what a certain decision gave us)
I hope someone has a better answer than "wait".
I'm willing to join with others to tackle raw data. If I could get the raw data I might even be able to do create something that many of us could use.
That all being said, my "selfish" first desire is a way to find ALL articles related to SOUTHERN RAILWAY. (BTW if and when I create a list I'll make a PDF and post it in a file section for this group!)
My second hit list would be anything between 1894-1953- after all that's when Southern and STEAM were together.
It seems to me that members of this group might share a similar interest and a similar frustration. How about a similar solution?
Gordon Andrews
very frustrated in Richmond, Virginia
My "criteria" (personal) also narrowed my scope by suggesting that it must be steam era - I can justify the model on my steam era railroad even though the prototype is NOT the one I model.
So my first frustration is the fact that WE no longer have the old "trains.com" site to look through previous magazine articles for basic info!
I'm surrounded by YEARS of Model Railroader magazines dating back into the 1940's and an entire collection of Mainline Modelers. Barring looking through each one there is no way to easily glean contents. (Yeah, I know Hundman published article titles each month for previous issues- I even complained to him about that AND MRR had a yearly index but that is a LOT of indexes to look through!) I "wisely" recycled my old "Stephan's" about a decade ago since it was fast getting obsolete and I could use the trains.com. That will teach me!
It would really help to find drawings that I can start with since the article will be as close to "scratch" as I can get.
As far as I can tell when Kalmbach gave their data (supposedly) to the NMRA they might as well have tossed it in the nearest dumpster. I don't have a lot of faith that NMRA will do anything more than committee the data to death or hold the data hostage for tons of money that few will pay.
I will also state for the record that I'm not enamored with the Kalmbach management for their decision. I can no longer state that my collection of magazines is "growing at a steady pace."
So I'm turning to this group. (hope springs eternal and all of that...)
First is anyone (at a minimum) tracking articles related to specific railroads?
Are any historical groups tracking magazine info for specific railroads?
How about a listing of steam era freight car articles?
Is there a chance that maybe a group like RPI has the data in an accessible format?
Does anyone have a good way to locate articles?
A few members are probably "data savvy" and if WE could get the raw data WE could probably access the data and at least create a few "reports" that would be MUCH BETTER than nothing. Heck, at this juncture just a huge PDF file sorted by something as simple as "railroad" is better than nothing. (what a certain decision gave us)
I hope someone has a better answer than "wait".
I'm willing to join with others to tackle raw data. If I could get the raw data I might even be able to do create something that many of us could use.
That all being said, my "selfish" first desire is a way to find ALL articles related to SOUTHERN RAILWAY. (BTW if and when I create a list I'll make a PDF and post it in a file section for this group!)
My second hit list would be anything between 1894-1953- after all that's when Southern and STEAM were together.
It seems to me that members of this group might share a similar interest and a similar frustration. How about a similar solution?
Gordon Andrews
very frustrated in Richmond, Virginia
Allen Rueter
Gordon, how about using the database function of the group,
I made an example table.
Allen Rueter
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I made an example table.
Allen Rueter
--- In STMFC@..., "Bushnell.mp77 Account" <bushnell.mp77@...> wrote:
I am considering an article for a historical society publication
related to researching and building a freight car model related to their
specific railroad.
My "criteria" (personal) also narrowed my scope by suggesting that it
must be steam era - I can justify the model on my steam era railroad
even though the prototype is NOT the one I model.
So my first frustration is the fact that WE no longer have the old
"trains.com" site to look through previous magazine articles for basic
info!
I'm surrounded by YEARS of Model Railroader magazines dating back into
the 1940's and an entire collection of Mainline Modelers. Barring
looking through each one there is no way to easily glean contents.
(Yeah, I know Hundman published article titles each month for previous
issues- I even complained to him about that AND MRR had a yearly index
but that is a LOT of indexes to look through!) I "wisely" recycled my
old "Stephan's" about a decade ago since it was fast getting obsolete
and I could use the trains.com. That will teach me!
It would really help to find drawings that I can start with since the
article will be as close to "scratch" as I can get.
As far as I can tell when Kalmbach gave their data (supposedly) to the
NMRA they might as well have tossed it in the nearest dumpster. I don't
have a lot of faith that NMRA will do anything more than committee the
data to death or hold the data hostage for tons of money that few will pay.
I will also state for the record that I'm not enamored with the Kalmbach
management for their decision. I can no longer state that my collection
of magazines is "growing at a steady pace."
So I'm turning to this group. (hope springs eternal and all of that...)
First is anyone (at a minimum) tracking articles related to specific
railroads?
Are any historical groups tracking magazine info for specific railroads?
How about a listing of steam era freight car articles?
Is there a chance that maybe a group like RPI has the data in an
accessible format?
Does anyone have a good way to locate articles?
A few members are probably "data savvy" and if WE could get the raw data
WE could probably access the data and at least create a few "reports"
that would be MUCH BETTER than nothing. Heck, at this juncture just a
huge PDF file sorted by something as simple as "railroad" is better than
nothing. (what a certain decision gave us)
I hope someone has a better answer than "wait".
I'm willing to join with others to tackle raw data. If I could get the
raw data I might even be able to do create something that many of us
could use.
That all being said, my "selfish" first desire is a way to find ALL
articles related to SOUTHERN RAILWAY. (BTW if and when I create a list
I'll make a PDF and post it in a file section for this group!)
My second hit list would be anything between 1894-1953- after all
that's when Southern and STEAM were together.
It seems to me that members of this group might share a similar interest
and a similar frustration. How about a similar solution?
Gordon Andrews
very frustrated in Richmond, Virginia
Jack Burgess <jack@...>
Gordon wrote:
[snip]
<As far as I can tell when Kalmbach gave their data (supposedly) to the
<NMRA they might as well have tossed it in the nearest dumpster. I don't
<have a lot of faith that NMRA will do anything more than committee the
<data to death or hold the data hostage for tons of money that few will
<pay.
Don't come down so hard on the NMRA without proof. Yes, Kalmbach agreed to
provide the data to the NMRA. This was done during the NMRA Milwaukee
Convention once we all realized that Kalmbach decided to discontinue the
service (note that they hadn't index any other magazines for some time). I
was involved in the sidelines during these early discussions and it is my
understanding that the data base was not in a common format. The NMRA has
every intent to convert this data base into an accessible web-based data
base and get it updated, on-line, and then maintain it. It will not cost
"tons of money" to access once it is updated and available but will be
limited to NMRA members as a benefit to membership. If you don't want to
become a member to access it, just get a friend who is a member to access it
for you...
Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com
[snip]
<As far as I can tell when Kalmbach gave their data (supposedly) to the
<NMRA they might as well have tossed it in the nearest dumpster. I don't
<have a lot of faith that NMRA will do anything more than committee the
<data to death or hold the data hostage for tons of money that few will
<pay.
Don't come down so hard on the NMRA without proof. Yes, Kalmbach agreed to
provide the data to the NMRA. This was done during the NMRA Milwaukee
Convention once we all realized that Kalmbach decided to discontinue the
service (note that they hadn't index any other magazines for some time). I
was involved in the sidelines during these early discussions and it is my
understanding that the data base was not in a common format. The NMRA has
every intent to convert this data base into an accessible web-based data
base and get it updated, on-line, and then maintain it. It will not cost
"tons of money" to access once it is updated and available but will be
limited to NMRA members as a benefit to membership. If you don't want to
become a member to access it, just get a friend who is a member to access it
for you...
Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com
Larry Kline
Gordon,
The NMRA Library can probably answer your question. They are on the NMRA web site. (nmra.org)
Also, I believe that most of the index info that was on the Kalmbach web site originally was produced by NMRA volunteers. The NMRA published an index for many years. I have NMRA indexes from 1969 to 1996.
AFIK MR and RMC are still indexed every year. I have a nearly complete set for MR and RMC from 1968.
Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA
--- In STMFC@..., "Bushnell.mp77 Account" <bushnell.mp77@...> wrote:
[snip]
The NMRA Library can probably answer your question. They are on the NMRA web site. (nmra.org)
Also, I believe that most of the index info that was on the Kalmbach web site originally was produced by NMRA volunteers. The NMRA published an index for many years. I have NMRA indexes from 1969 to 1996.
AFIK MR and RMC are still indexed every year. I have a nearly complete set for MR and RMC from 1968.
Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA
--- In STMFC@..., "Bushnell.mp77 Account" <bushnell.mp77@...> wrote:
[snip]
That all being said, my "selfish" first desire is a way to find ALL
articles related to SOUTHERN RAILWAY. (BTW if and when I create a
list I'll make a PDF and post it in a file section for this group!)
[snip]
Gordon Andrews
very frustrated in Richmond, Virginia
Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
Gordon - One thing to remember is that the plans published in the model railroad press are often far from accurate. The further back you go the worse they get as does the accuracy of the data. When I first went into the business I ran through all the old back issues and made a list of the cars I wanted to do. I eventually made about six out of twenty. My suggestion is to use the Official Railway Equipment Register to determine several cars of significance to the line you're interested in. Then check with the historical society to see what data is available. - Al Westerfield
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Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Bushnell.mp77 Account
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 4:50 PM
Subject: [STMFC] research, index,db,yeah, steam era and freight cars, can this group help?
I am considering an article for a historical society publication
related to researching and building a freight car model related to their
specific railroad.
My "criteria" (personal) also narrowed my scope by suggesting that it
must be steam era - I can justify the model on my steam era railroad
even though the prototype is NOT the one I model.
So my first frustration is the fact that WE no longer have the old
"trains.com" site to look through previous magazine articles for basic
info!
I'm surrounded by YEARS of Model Railroader magazines dating back into
the 1940's and an entire collection of Mainline Modelers. Barring
looking through each one there is no way to easily glean contents.
(Yeah, I know Hundman published article titles each month for previous
issues- I even complained to him about that AND MRR had a yearly index
but that is a LOT of indexes to look through!) I "wisely" recycled my
old "Stephan's" about a decade ago since it was fast getting obsolete
and I could use the trains.com. That will teach me!
It would really help to find drawings that I can start with since the
article will be as close to "scratch" as I can get.
As far as I can tell when Kalmbach gave their data (supposedly) to the
NMRA they might as well have tossed it in the nearest dumpster. I don't
have a lot of faith that NMRA will do anything more than committee the
data to death or hold the data hostage for tons of money that few will pay.
I will also state for the record that I'm not enamored with the Kalmbach
management for their decision. I can no longer state that my collection
of magazines is "growing at a steady pace."
So I'm turning to this group. (hope springs eternal and all of that...)
First is anyone (at a minimum) tracking articles related to specific
railroads?
Are any historical groups tracking magazine info for specific railroads?
How about a listing of steam era freight car articles?
Is there a chance that maybe a group like RPI has the data in an
accessible format?
Does anyone have a good way to locate articles?
A few members are probably "data savvy" and if WE could get the raw data
WE could probably access the data and at least create a few "reports"
that would be MUCH BETTER than nothing. Heck, at this juncture just a
huge PDF file sorted by something as simple as "railroad" is better than
nothing. (what a certain decision gave us)
I hope someone has a better answer than "wait".
I'm willing to join with others to tackle raw data. If I could get the
raw data I might even be able to do create something that many of us
could use.
That all being said, my "selfish" first desire is a way to find ALL
articles related to SOUTHERN RAILWAY. (BTW if and when I create a list
I'll make a PDF and post it in a file section for this group!)
My second hit list would be anything between 1894-1953- after all
that's when Southern and STEAM were together.
It seems to me that members of this group might share a similar interest
and a similar frustration. How about a similar solution?
Gordon Andrews
very frustrated in Richmond, Virginia
From: Bushnell.mp77 Account
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 4:50 PM
Subject: [STMFC] research, index,db,yeah, steam era and freight cars, can this group help?
I am considering an article for a historical society publication
related to researching and building a freight car model related to their
specific railroad.
My "criteria" (personal) also narrowed my scope by suggesting that it
must be steam era - I can justify the model on my steam era railroad
even though the prototype is NOT the one I model.
So my first frustration is the fact that WE no longer have the old
"trains.com" site to look through previous magazine articles for basic
info!
I'm surrounded by YEARS of Model Railroader magazines dating back into
the 1940's and an entire collection of Mainline Modelers. Barring
looking through each one there is no way to easily glean contents.
(Yeah, I know Hundman published article titles each month for previous
issues- I even complained to him about that AND MRR had a yearly index
but that is a LOT of indexes to look through!) I "wisely" recycled my
old "Stephan's" about a decade ago since it was fast getting obsolete
and I could use the trains.com. That will teach me!
It would really help to find drawings that I can start with since the
article will be as close to "scratch" as I can get.
As far as I can tell when Kalmbach gave their data (supposedly) to the
NMRA they might as well have tossed it in the nearest dumpster. I don't
have a lot of faith that NMRA will do anything more than committee the
data to death or hold the data hostage for tons of money that few will pay.
I will also state for the record that I'm not enamored with the Kalmbach
management for their decision. I can no longer state that my collection
of magazines is "growing at a steady pace."
So I'm turning to this group. (hope springs eternal and all of that...)
First is anyone (at a minimum) tracking articles related to specific
railroads?
Are any historical groups tracking magazine info for specific railroads?
How about a listing of steam era freight car articles?
Is there a chance that maybe a group like RPI has the data in an
accessible format?
Does anyone have a good way to locate articles?
A few members are probably "data savvy" and if WE could get the raw data
WE could probably access the data and at least create a few "reports"
that would be MUCH BETTER than nothing. Heck, at this juncture just a
huge PDF file sorted by something as simple as "railroad" is better than
nothing. (what a certain decision gave us)
I hope someone has a better answer than "wait".
I'm willing to join with others to tackle raw data. If I could get the
raw data I might even be able to do create something that many of us
could use.
That all being said, my "selfish" first desire is a way to find ALL
articles related to SOUTHERN RAILWAY. (BTW if and when I create a list
I'll make a PDF and post it in a file section for this group!)
My second hit list would be anything between 1894-1953- after all
that's when Southern and STEAM were together.
It seems to me that members of this group might share a similar interest
and a similar frustration. How about a similar solution?
Gordon Andrews
very frustrated in Richmond, Virginia
roblmclear <rob.mclear2@...>
Jack
As I remember the discussion on this and other groups concerning the Index that it was the intention that the index would be made available to all. Are you now saying that you have to become a member of the NMRA to access the index, if so then I believe that we are going to be "held to ransom" so to speak. I was of the belief that the information on this list was going to made available to all free of charge. If this turns out to be the case then those of us without access to the NMRA or a friend of it or to another method of access will be severely disadvantaged. Also if the list is to be accessed by another person, who may be in the NMRA and passed on to others then what is the point of making the list part of a membership fee. I don't belong to the NMRA and have no desire to be in it as the benefits to me 5000 miles away are extremely limited. I don't see why I should now have to pay a fee for something that I have always accessed for free.
Please don't get me wrong here I am not bagging or critising the NMRA for those who wish to belong and enjoy the comradarie more power to them and good luck to them. I just don't see why I should be forced into a situation where I have to join somthing to access such an important piece of information and reference material. I believe that this discussion has been held before with information being placed on Facebook and people being told to join that to access it. I was under the impression that this was going to be available to all modellers free of charge as it was in the past in fact I believe that this was stated on some of the groups when it became a concern that the NMRA was going to inherit it. I am sure that it had been stated in the past that access to it would be free, it is now very unfortunate that it most likely will not be.
Rob Mclear
Brisbane Australia.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
As I remember the discussion on this and other groups concerning the Index that it was the intention that the index would be made available to all. Are you now saying that you have to become a member of the NMRA to access the index, if so then I believe that we are going to be "held to ransom" so to speak. I was of the belief that the information on this list was going to made available to all free of charge. If this turns out to be the case then those of us without access to the NMRA or a friend of it or to another method of access will be severely disadvantaged. Also if the list is to be accessed by another person, who may be in the NMRA and passed on to others then what is the point of making the list part of a membership fee. I don't belong to the NMRA and have no desire to be in it as the benefits to me 5000 miles away are extremely limited. I don't see why I should now have to pay a fee for something that I have always accessed for free.
Please don't get me wrong here I am not bagging or critising the NMRA for those who wish to belong and enjoy the comradarie more power to them and good luck to them. I just don't see why I should be forced into a situation where I have to join somthing to access such an important piece of information and reference material. I believe that this discussion has been held before with information being placed on Facebook and people being told to join that to access it. I was under the impression that this was going to be available to all modellers free of charge as it was in the past in fact I believe that this was stated on some of the groups when it became a concern that the NMRA was going to inherit it. I am sure that it had been stated in the past that access to it would be free, it is now very unfortunate that it most likely will not be.
Rob Mclear
Brisbane Australia.
--- In STMFC@..., "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:
It will not cost "tons of money" to access once it is updated and available but will be limited to NMRA members as a benefit to membership. If you don't want to become a member to access it, just get a friend who is a member to access it for you...
Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com
It will not cost "tons of money" to access once it is updated and available but will be limited to NMRA members as a benefit to membership. If you don't want to become a member to access it, just get a friend who is a member to access it for you...
Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com
Gordon Andews wrote
... is anyone (at a minimum) tracking articles related to specific railroads?
----------------------
I think it's safe to say that several thousand people are doing this.
Are any historical groups tracking magazine info for specific railroads?
----------------------
Since historical groups are composed of individuals, and many of those
individuals are tracking publications (not just magazines but all manner
of books, web sites, pamphlets, prototype sources, etc) the answer has
to be Yes.
How about a listing of steam era freight car articles?
----------------------
Yes, collectively I'm sure that is so.
Is there a chance that maybe a group like RPI has the data in an accessible format?
----------------------
John Nehrich, who has single handedly created the RPI database, has
previously published most of this data in a large loose-leaf book but
it's not organized in a "computer accessible" format unless you think
of a large number of text pages as "accessible". But you can subscribe
to the web site for $5/month and have full access to everything there.
Does anyone have a good way to locate articles?
----------------------
Yes, I try to keep really good notes. I save useful emails, which are
automatically indexed by my email software -- overs the years thousands
of excellent prototype modeling references have been posted to STMFC and
other lists. And I use Google. A lot.
If I could get the raw data I might even be able to do create something
that many of us could use.
----------------------
There's nothing stopping you from doing that. Start with some data and
add more later. For example, Wikipedia is a free resource -- you can open a
new topic or find an existing relevant topic and edit it -- Anyone can edit
Wikipedia pages! The better documented your notes (esp with references to
primary source data) the more believable your notes will be. All Wikipedia
pages are indexed by Google, and the more people use that page and create
links to it, the more likely it will climb to the top of Google's hit list.
Tim O'Connor
... is anyone (at a minimum) tracking articles related to specific railroads?
----------------------
I think it's safe to say that several thousand people are doing this.
Are any historical groups tracking magazine info for specific railroads?
----------------------
Since historical groups are composed of individuals, and many of those
individuals are tracking publications (not just magazines but all manner
of books, web sites, pamphlets, prototype sources, etc) the answer has
to be Yes.
How about a listing of steam era freight car articles?
----------------------
Yes, collectively I'm sure that is so.
Is there a chance that maybe a group like RPI has the data in an accessible format?
----------------------
John Nehrich, who has single handedly created the RPI database, has
previously published most of this data in a large loose-leaf book but
it's not organized in a "computer accessible" format unless you think
of a large number of text pages as "accessible". But you can subscribe
to the web site for $5/month and have full access to everything there.
Does anyone have a good way to locate articles?
----------------------
Yes, I try to keep really good notes. I save useful emails, which are
automatically indexed by my email software -- overs the years thousands
of excellent prototype modeling references have been posted to STMFC and
other lists. And I use Google. A lot.
If I could get the raw data I might even be able to do create something
that many of us could use.
----------------------
There's nothing stopping you from doing that. Start with some data and
add more later. For example, Wikipedia is a free resource -- you can open a
new topic or find an existing relevant topic and edit it -- Anyone can edit
Wikipedia pages! The better documented your notes (esp with references to
primary source data) the more believable your notes will be. All Wikipedia
pages are indexed by Google, and the more people use that page and create
links to it, the more likely it will climb to the top of Google's hit list.
Tim O'Connor