Bulk material was: Cement ingredients, Was: cement travel


Clark Propst
 

Notice I changed the subject line, even though the list owner changed the subject : )

The CGW hauled iron ore out of SE MN for delivery to Granite City IL,

Upper Midwestern fertilizer plants received materials from New Mexico, Florida and Canada to name a few.

But, most cement plants were located very near they're raw materials. After the time of this list do to EPA restrictions plants were forced to use different materials that had to be shipped some distance.

Clark Propst


gettheredesigns <rick@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:



Notice I changed the subject line, even though the list owner changed the subject : )

The CGW hauled iron ore out of SE MN for delivery to Granite City IL,
Yes, that was the primary destination, but carloads also went to Mason City for use in the cement plants. It was the nearest source for a necessary ingredient.

Cheers, Rick


Clark Propst
 

You have proof of this?

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "gettheredesigns" <rick@...> wrote:

Yes, that was the primary destination, but carloads also went to Mason City for use in the cement plants. It was the nearest source for a necessary ingredient.

Cheers, Rick


gettheredesigns <rick@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:

You have proof of this?

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "gettheredesigns" <rick@> wrote:

Yes, that was the primary destination, but carloads also went to Mason City for use in the cement plants. It was the nearest source for a necessary ingredient.

Cheers, Rick
Not in hand, but if I recall I read it in a CGW forum, posted by somebody with paper documentation. I can probably dig it up if you really need to see it. Did you think I made that up?

Regarding my comments about Florida phosphate, I specifically said "exported", and made no mention of phosphate distribution WITHIN the US. In the Midwest, the cost of rail transportation makes other, closer sources competitive. Deep-water vessels are the cheapest way on earth to transport bulk commodities, so if a customer on the other side of the globe is near a port on their end, Florida phosphate can compete with other sources. It is an example of the effect of transportation costs on the flow of bulk commodities, and therefore relevant to the discussion.

Cheers, Rick Aylsworth


Clark Propst
 

Rick asked. "Did you think I made that up?"

No, but you had to have heard it somewhere.
I model Mason City and know someone modeling the CGW in SE MN.
If there's any documentation of loads into the MC plants or of loads out of SE MN mines other than to Granite City we would love to see it.
Clark Propst


gettheredesigns <rick@...>
 

Clark,
I haven't found the reference yet, but I will post it here when I do. Some of my saved links on that topic are dead. There has been some discussion of the SE MN deposits on the Orerail group in the past, and I recall that I found the info you are interested in while researching an answer to a question there. It may have been in a state or federal minerals yearbook or a similar publication. Virtually every cement plant receives some sort of iron-bearing material, so the Mason City plants had to get it somewhere. I understand your desire as a prototype modeler to have hard documentation.
Cheers, Rick

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:

Rick asked. "Did you think I made that up?"

No, but you had to have heard it somewhere.
I model Mason City and know someone modeling the CGW in SE MN.
If there's any documentation of loads into the MC plants or of loads out of SE MN mines other than to Granite City we would love to see it.
Clark Propst


Clark Propst
 

Rick,
Iron ore wasn't necessarily used in all applications. The mix had a nasty habit of stripping the coating out of kilns. So cement with iron ore added was made just before the kilns were scheduled to be re-bricked...or they would be anyway : ) I'm talking in the era of this list.
But yes, iron ore was used at the plants in Mason City. I was told a horror story of it taking a crew 6 days to empty a car in the winter. I ore I've seen for the plants was very fine. The ore I've seen at the Spring Valley MN museum was fairly large chunks. That's not to say the chunks won't be ground in a mill.
Clark Propst


gettheredesigns <rick@...>
 

Clark,
Iron ore is usually screened at the mine or beneficiation plant. Coarse and fine ore was shipped separately. Coarse ore could go straight into a blast furnace. Fine ore was usually sintered at the steel mill into chunks along with flue dust, mill scale, and other iron-bearing waste products, otherwise the fine ore would get blown out the top of the furnace. Slag, mill scale, and even scrap metal have been used as an iron source in cement plants. Iron oxides act as a flux to lower the energy needed to complete the chemical reactions in the kiln. Sounds like it could flux the kiln refractories as well! In steelmaking furnaces, refractory linings are chosen to resist a certain slag chemistry (acid or basic), and are damaged if the chemistry is off.

I have a pail of fine ore from the site of a very small washing plant a few miles east of Stewartville, near my brother's home. It's all under 1/4" particle size. At the same site, I picked up fist-sized chunks. The finer ores there were contaminated with silty clay, which was removed by a washing process to bring them up to grade.

There are/were some very small iron ore deposits scattered around Iowa and noted in various geologic studies, but I haven't run across any evidence that they were mined.

Cheers, Rick

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:


Rick,
Iron ore wasn't necessarily used in all applications. The mix had a nasty habit of stripping the coating out of kilns. So cement with iron ore added was made just before the kilns were scheduled to be re-bricked...or they would be anyway : ) I'm talking in the era of this list.
But yes, iron ore was used at the plants in Mason City. I was told a horror story of it taking a crew 6 days to empty a car in the winter. I ore I've seen for the plants was very fine. The ore I've seen at the Spring Valley MN museum was fairly large chunks. That's not to say the chunks won't be ground in a mill.
Clark Propst


water.kresse@...
 

Rick,



At what time frame are we talking about?   What happened very ore sizes in the 1880-WW1?



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "gettheredesigns" <rick@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:53:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Bulk material was: Cement ingredients, Was: cement travel

Clark,
Iron ore is usually screened at the mine or beneficiation plant. Coarse and fine ore was shipped separately. Coarse ore could go straight into a blast furnace. Fine ore was usually sintered at the steel mill into chunks along with flue dust, mill scale, and other iron-bearing waste products, otherwise the fine ore would get blown out the top of the furnace. Slag, mill scale, and even scrap metal have been used as an iron source in cement plants. Iron oxides act as a flux to lower the energy needed to complete the chemical reactions in the kiln. Sounds like it could flux the kiln refractories as well! In steelmaking furnaces, refractory linings are chosen to resist a certain slag chemistry (acid or basic), and are damaged if the chemistry is off.

I have a pail of fine ore from the site of a very small washing plant a few miles east of Stewartville, near my brother's home. It's all under 1/4" particle size. At the same site, I picked up fist-sized chunks. The finer ores there were contaminated with silty clay, which was removed by a washing process to bring them up to grade.

There are/were some very small iron ore deposits scattered around Iowa and noted in various geologic studies, but I haven't run across any evidence that they were mined.

Cheers, Rick

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:


Rick,
Iron ore wasn't necessarily used in all applications. The mix had a nasty habit of stripping the coating out of kilns. So cement with iron ore added was made just before the kilns were scheduled to be re-bricked...or they would be anyway : ) I'm talking in the era of this list.
But yes, iron ore was used at the plants in Mason City. I was told a horror story of it taking a crew 6 days to empty a car in the winter. I ore I've seen for the plants was very fine. The ore I've seen at the Spring Valley MN museum was fairly large chunks. That's not to say the chunks won't be ground in a mill.
Clark Propst


gettheredesigns <rick@...>
 

Hi Al,
Hmmmm--I can't give you specifics back to 1880, but by 1910 or so, the value of processing iron ore to improve the smelting quality was widely recognized. In the early days there was more of the very high grade "direct-shipping" ores available, but in general, furnace operators were less particular. The iron and steel making process was more labor intensive back then, but labor was very cheap.
Direct-shipping ores were scooped up in the pit, loaded into ore cars, and used in the blast furnace as-is. Lower-grade ores were largely bypassed until later in history, and here in MN, this was encouraged by the tax laws. By WW2, most MN iron ore was crushed, screened, and/or concentrated in some way. By the 50's, the taconite process of mining hard low-grade ore (taconite), grinding it to powder, concentrating it magnetically, and forming it into uniform spherical pellets became a commercial reality, after years of research, and a change in state tax laws pertaining to iron ore that made it economical. In the 60's it was recognized that using strictly pellets in the blast furnace dramatically improved productivity, because of the high purity and the fact that the pellets smelted quickly. I should make clear that my knowledge of the subject applies primarily to Great Lakes region ores; there were very different types of iron ores mined in other parts of the country.

Having blabbed all that, I'm not sure if I answered your question. Ore straight from the pit would be a mix of fine and coarse material, with Mesabi Range ores tending to be fine and earthy, like dirt. Harder ores looked like crushed rock (go figure), with a wide range of particle sizes. As previously stated, screened ores were shipped as their coarse and fine fractions, and looked dfferent in the cars. Ore from different mines, and even ore from the same ore body, could vary dramatically in color, texture, and chemical analysis. Sometimes different types were more valuable if kept separate, but usually they were systematically mixed to get a more uniform grade, or to make low-grade ore usable by mixing it with high-grade ore. Furnace operators prefer a uniform, predictable analysis, high iron content, and an absence of fines. The modern concentrated and pelletized ores meet that goal perfectly.

Fire away, I love the subject and the opportunity to share.
Cheers, Rick

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:



Rick,



At what time frame are we talking about?   What happened very ore sizes in the 1880-WW1?



Al Kresse


----- Original Message -----
From: "gettheredesigns" <rick@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:53:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Bulk material was: Cement ingredients, Was: cement travel

Clark,
Iron ore is usually screened at the mine or beneficiation plant. Coarse and fine ore was shipped separately. Coarse ore could go straight into a blast furnace. Fine ore was usually sintered at the steel mill into chunks along with flue dust, mill scale, and other iron-bearing waste products, otherwise the fine ore would get blown out the top of the furnace. Slag, mill scale, and even scrap metal have been used as an iron source in cement plants. Iron oxides act as a flux to lower the energy needed to complete the chemical reactions in the kiln. Sounds like it could flux the kiln refractories as well! In steelmaking furnaces, refractory linings are chosen to resist a certain slag chemistry (acid or basic), and are damaged if the chemistry is off.