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A great glue for resin kits
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Jack Mullen
--- In STMFC@..., WaltGCox@... wrote:
I have used Loctite cyanoacrylates in both gel and liquid formulations for years. The gel is often handier for assembly - applying a dab or dabs to a part, the pressing it into place. I've used each formulation for resin-resin, resin-styrene, and resin-metal bonds. My gut feel is that the gel usually gives a better bond in the latter case, the others it's just a choice of what is more convenient. YMMV. I seldom use an accelerator, but in rare cases I just can't get a bond without it. Sometimes a humid breath is enough. Loctite became my preferred brand because I found longer shelf life and less nozzle clogging than with most others I tried. I really like their side-squeeze bottles. I'm sure most of this is really just a matter of taste, but I will say that my modeling is sporadic, and I find the Loctite is still sitting there, good to use, when I get around to it. I'll add that I had terrible results with one "hobby" brand of CA, which for me consistently had all the bonding power of water (with or without accelerator), although I know others have no problems. I see that Loctite offers an "Ultra" gel which is claimed to be rubber toughened for increased shock resistance. I'll have to find and try some. Jack Mullen |
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Which "Liquid Nails" do you use Charlie? They make about 27 different
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adhesives :-) (Liquid Nails is just a brand name.) Tim O'Connor At 12/30/2010 12:49 PM Thursday, you wrote:
I've used Loctite to build my last five or six resin kits and its shelf life is pretty long. After using the acc glue, I use Liquid Nail to line the interior seams and hold the weight in place. Been usin Liquid Nail to reinforce the interior seams for 15 years with good results. |
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Schuyler Larrabee
You're a brave man, Walt. Not what I would do even if I was confident that
the glue was the best. I've been away from modeling for much of this last year (long story) and while I find the skills are still there, there is a curve to regaining the facility I'd like to think I had before. SGL Thanks to Jeff and Charlie for the responses. Now I can start with the kits I would like to build first, instead of testing the method on something else first. Walt ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16600) http://www.pctools.com <http://www.pctools.com/?cclick=EmailFooterClean_51> ======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16600) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= |
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WaltGCox@...
Thanks to Jeff and Charlie for the responses. Now I can start with the
kits I would like to build first, instead of testing the method on something else first. Walt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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I've used Loctite to build my last five or six resin kits and its shelf life is pretty long. After using the acc glue, I use Liquid Nail to line the interior seams and hold the weight in place. Been usin Liquid Nail to reinforce the interior seams for 15 years with good results.
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Charlie Duckworth --- In STMFC@..., Jeff Sankus <uvrail@...> wrote:
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Jeff Sankus
Walt;
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I have just started using the Loctite Gel formula. Thought, I'd give a try. I have all good results. Fairly quick setting and strong bonds. I've used this on resin and styrene. I have not tried using an activator with this. I actually, have not needed to. Happy New Year Jeff S. On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:49 AM, <WaltGCox@...> wrote:
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WaltGCox@...
I have close to 50 resin kits that I plan to start assembling after the
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West Springfield show. I got two tubes of Loctite super glue Gel (part no. seems to be IDH1253734) in my Christmas stocking and so far have seen no reference to the Gel formula in this thread. Has anyone any experience with this type of glue and would an activator (not mentioned on package) be useful? TIA Walt, The Loctite Plastics Bonding System is a low cost PACKAGE at $3.98 |
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Allen unless you're building 100 kits in the next year, you are never
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going to use 2 oz of CA before it sets up and hardens in the bottle. Even a 1/2 oz bottle tends to be more than I need, and Zap (and other brands) sell a 1/4 oz size which in the end is more economical because I actually use it before it hardens in the bottle. (Over the last 20+ years of modeling I've had 15-20 bottles turn rock hard on me, before I switched to the small Zap bottles.) I've bought CA in a tube before just to sample different brands, but unless you're Bill Darnaby :-) a tube ends up mostly wasted. Tim O'Connor Assuming comparable performance and durability, the Tech-Bond system would |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Allen Cain wrote:
My goal was to come up with a comparable cost of these glues per OUNCE, not for the PACKAGE which varies significantly in the amount of glue you get.The Bob Smith Industries CA packages I buy are 0.5 ounce at $2.99 in my LHS. That's under $6 per ounce and it's not a cheapo drugstore glue either. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Allen Cain <allencain@...>
After following this thread with great interest and learning a lot as I did.
The discussion of price got me to thinking so I did a quick price comparison between the Loctite Plastics Bonding System and the "higher cost" systems. I did not take into consideration shipping costs or taxes since these vary by location. My goal was to come up with a comparable cost of these glues per OUNCE, not for the PACKAGE which varies significantly in the amount of glue you get. The Loctite Plastics Bonding System is a low cost PACKAGE at $3.98 which includes a 0.07 ounce tube of glue. This comes to $56.86 per ounce of glue. The Tech-Bond Starter Kits cost $20.00 for 2 Ounces of glue which comes to $10.00 per ounce of glue making it significantly cheaper than the Loctite product IF you need the larger quantity and IF you will use it before it goes bad. And if I am doing my gram to ounce conversions properly, Cool Chems' Cyanopoxy basic kit comes in at a whopping $137.71 per ounce or only $10.91 per ounce if you want to invest $174.56 for a 16 ounce container (which would probably go bad before most folks could use that much) but you will still need to buy the activator. Assuming comparable performance and durability, the Tech-Bond system would appear to be the most economical and comes in a more convenient and affordable package size. But for convenience the Loctite system is hard to beat for a single kit and no worries about it aging as there just isn't enough there to worry about. Obviously I have too much time on my hands and need to go to bed! Allen Cain |
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rdietrichson
Aftternoon,
Weldwood Contact Cement works well for me, and you can control the amount used by applying with a tooth pick, and it is also a lot cheaper than Goo. Rick Dietrichson Wilmington,NC |
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Tony Higgins
This is an interesting technique to facilitate positioning the parts before applying (fast setting) CA. I have had to unbond a CA joint on a few occasions when I wasn't satisfied with the fit and that's a pain. However, I threw out my Walther's GOO years ago when I ruined a fully detailed caboose underframe in using it to attach the weight and I'm reluctant to get another tube.
I wonder if anyone else has other suggestions for a two step bonding process as Bob described using something other than GOO as the first step and finishing with CA (which I still prefer)? I buy the tiny tubes of Super Glue sold for a few bucks per 5 pack at Home Depot. It's cheap enough that if I suspect a tube has gone stale I toss it and open a new one... Tony Higgins Pittsford, NY --- In STMFC@..., "Bob Jones" <bobjonesmodels@...> wrote: <snip> |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Ricky (not signing his full name) wrote:
I think the advantage in the Loctite system is in the Activator which "primes" the material allowing the CA to soak in instead of just lay on the surface.The glue does not "soak in" to metals, glass, plastics etc. But "prime" is probably a good word in accelerating the setting. I think most "super glues" are pretty much the same chemically. The same system is used in plumbing, a primer(activator) then a solvent(glue) resulting in a long lasting "solvent-welded" joint.There are lots of CA formulations, as you can readily discover by Googling. The CA system does NOT use a solvent for the materials to be joined, and is thus QUITE different from plumbing glues used for plastic pipe--or the styrene cements we use in modeling. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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VINCE PUGLIESE
While I don't have any personal experience, there have been reports of baking
soda/cyanoacrylate joints failing over time: http://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/viewtopic.php?t=78005&sid=ddd5a03eb3377031fd49e2a496272b81 search for a post by ajmadison for a perspective on the subject. I have heard of folks substituting talc, not sure if this should be pure talc or if cosmetic powders will suffice, or microballons as these should be inert. .vp ________________________________ From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Wed, December 29, 2010 11:17:15 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: A great glue for resin kits So... a simple lookup of Cyanoacrylate with Google reveals that chemically it is a weak acid, and that "accelerator" or "activator" is simply an akaline or base chemical that neutralizes the acid. The activator is used in all cases as a preparation on the surface to be bonded. The Wikipedia page notes that many modelers use BAKING SODA to create their own "gap filling" mixtures. "Cyanopoxy" and similar superglues that have greater tensile properties and are less brittle might be variations of n-Butyl Cyanoacrylate, which is the common medical form of CA. This may include the Loctite product. From what I can find online it's not inherently more expensive than any other CA. I also tried the ridiculously expensive Cyanopoxy and was very underwhelmed, and it hardened on me less than a year after opening. (My basement is cool and open CA usually lasts 3-4 years.) Tim O'Connor After struggling through many different adhesives, some of which left a brittle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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So... a simple lookup of Cyanoacrylate with Google reveals that chemically
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it is a weak acid, and that "accelerator" or "activator" is simply an akaline or base chemical that neutralizes the acid. The activator is used in all cases as a preparation on the surface to be bonded. The Wikipedia page notes that many modelers use BAKING SODA to create their own "gap filling" mixtures. "Cyanopoxy" and similar superglues that have greater tensile properties and are less brittle might be variations of n-Butyl Cyanoacrylate, which is the common medical form of CA. This may include the Loctite product. From what I can find online it's not inherently more expensive than any other CA. I also tried the ridiculously expensive Cyanopoxy and was very underwhelmed, and it hardened on me less than a year after opening. (My basement is cool and open CA usually lasts 3-4 years.) Tim O'Connor After struggling through many different adhesives, some of which left a brittle joint, some a white film, some which didn't work at all; I have found Loctite for plastics. Following the directions in the use of the activator and glue will lead to great results, an invisible, super strong joint. I'm done with expensive exotic glues as this can be found at Home Depot for three bucks. If anyone here knows a hobby shop owner tell them to stock this product. |
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Ricky <x_white.bear_x@...>
I think the advantage in the Loctite system is in the Activator which "primes" the material allowing the CA to soak in instead of just lay on the surface. The Activator might work with other brands of CA but I'm not sure. I think most "super glues" are pretty much the same chemically. The same system is used in plumbing, a primer(activator) then a solvent(glue) resulting in a long lasting "solvent-welded" joint.
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--- In STMFC@..., "Bob Jones" <bobjonesmodels@...> wrote:
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
OK, never used cyanopoxy. In my model building I have used thin and gap-filling CA glue for resin (*) to resin, brass, steel, aluminum, copper, styrene, and white metal. The only joints that performed poorly were those involving white metal. (It is horrible stuff and just a poor modeling material in general.) In those cases I used conventional epoxy. The other metal joints are weaker than the polymer joints, but adequate. I've found that having a clean, well-fitted, joint is more important that just about anything else.
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(*) All resin model parts were polyurethane. Outside of model railroading I've never seen anything else since epoxy and polyester fell by the wayside in the 1980's. Are these other resin compounds I've seen advertised "real" or someone's mis-understanding of the chemistry? KL ----- Original Message -----
From: Denis Blake I don’t know that there is an advantage over conventional CA glues. The comparison is against cyanopoxy. At under 4 bucks for this kit of 2 components versus 40.00 for the cyanopoxy the comparison is clear. It is the price comparison for a product that may, or may not, do the same thing for much less money. My initial impression tonight was favorable. The one variable I couldn’t check tonight was that of durability of the bond. That is going to have be done over a period of time. -----Original Message----- From: Kurt Laughlin Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 10:23 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: A great glue for resin kits What is the purported advantage of this over conventional CA glues for bonding resin? KL ----- Original Message ----- From: Denis Blake I spent a bit of time downstairs this evening, for the first time in sometime to be honest. Anyhow, as I indicted earlier, I went to Home Depot and purchased the Loctite Plastic Bonding System and found it to be a very easy to use product. I worked on a caboose and a mechanical reefer, both by WrightTRAK, and it worked well on both of these cars. I used the activator first, as directed to and then the glue. Worked great resulting in nice tight bonds. How these hold up over time is a whole different subject. For the price, 3.98 at the local store, you almost can't go wrong. Even is this didn’t work on resin freight cars I am sure that there would be a 1,000,001 uses around the house. I also, as stated, picked up Gorilla Super Glue. I did NOT try that tonight and as such cant report on it. Overall I was happy with the Loctite product and am anxious to see how it holds up over time. |
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Bob Jones <bobjonesmodels@...>
Hi , My method is Walthers Goo for initial bond with an application of ACC after . The joint is stronger than the resin , learned the hard way after a mistake . I use the micro tips on the Goo to control it , works well in O scale joints , no experience in smaller scales . Bob Jones
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----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor To: STMFC@... Sent: 12/29/2010 3:53:28 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: A great glue for resin kits When I build resin carbodies, especially closed cars, I only use CA to "tack" parts together and then use generous applications of good old Epoxy to ensure permanent bonds. I have a Sunshine gondola on which I used only CA throughout, and it's always been somewhat "brittle" with weak side-to-floor bonds. Try gluing something like Gary said - a broken delrin handrail - and then give it a good twist and flex. If the bond holds, then this Loctite stuff may actually be different. In the meantime, my little 2-yr old bottle of Zap is still working. Tim O'Connor I spent a bit of time downstairs this evening, for the first time in [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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When I build resin carbodies, especially closed cars, I only use CA
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to "tack" parts together and then use generous applications of good old Epoxy to ensure permanent bonds. I have a Sunshine gondola on which I used only CA throughout, and it's always been somewhat "brittle" with weak side-to-floor bonds. Try gluing something like Gary said - a broken delrin handrail - and then give it a good twist and flex. If the bond holds, then this Loctite stuff may actually be different. In the meantime, my little 2-yr old bottle of Zap is still working. Tim O'Connor I spent a bit of time downstairs this evening, for the first time in |
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seaboard_1966
Fred
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That is the one that this conversation is about. I picked up a couple packs of the two part adhesive last evening at home depot. I got home and gave it a try and it appeared to work just fine. I also picked up a sample of Gorilla Glue Super Glue. I did not test that one yet. Denis Blake North Hamlet Shops 2011 Central Ohio Prototype Modelers Meet, May 19-21 http://www.facebook.com/pages/manage/#!/pages/Central-Ohio-Prototype-Modelers-Meet/326645470797 -----Original Message-----
From: fredswanson2008 Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 1:07 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: A great glue for resin kits In the link there is another link to a two part adhesive for plastics. It appears to be made for tough to bond derin and other plastics. Has anybody tried that one? If so how well does it work? Fred Swanson --- In STMFC@..., VINCE PUGLIESE <gigitreosei@...> wrote:
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