Date
1 - 20 of 22
Freight Car Statistics
al_brown03
Oh, I've seen that! <pounds forehead> But where?
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
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Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:
Does anyone know of a source for the average age by year of freight cars in interchange?
Gene Green
John Hile
--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:
Gene,
I suspect what you are after is American Railway Car Institute data.
FWIW, Inside the back cover of the '49-'51 Carbuilders' Cyclopedia is the following data from ARCI for freight cars owned by class I RR's in 1947.
A - 1-5 yrs
B - 6-15 yrs
C - 16-34 yrs
D - 35+ yrs
Boxcars:
A - 89,569
B - 178,553
C - 431,288
D - 33,222
Gondolas:
A - 29,575
B - 59,224
C - 170,383
D - 56,564
Hoppers:
A - 72,851
B - 115,129
C - 244,858
D - 106,368
Flat Cars:
A - 6,284
B - 9,833
C - 24,031
D - 10,995
Stock Cars:
A - 500
B - 2,791
C - 38,289
D - 10,326
Tank Cars:
A - 3
B - 653
C - 4,330
D - 3,545
Refrigerators:
A - 445
B - 1,738
C - 17,165
D - 374
John Nehrich had a data table with ARCI data in his old printed NEB&W freight car guides. Give me a few more minutes and I will recap that data as well.
John Hile
Does anyone know of a source for the average age by year of freight cars in interchange?
Gene,
I suspect what you are after is American Railway Car Institute data.
FWIW, Inside the back cover of the '49-'51 Carbuilders' Cyclopedia is the following data from ARCI for freight cars owned by class I RR's in 1947.
A - 1-5 yrs
B - 6-15 yrs
C - 16-34 yrs
D - 35+ yrs
Boxcars:
A - 89,569
B - 178,553
C - 431,288
D - 33,222
Gondolas:
A - 29,575
B - 59,224
C - 170,383
D - 56,564
Hoppers:
A - 72,851
B - 115,129
C - 244,858
D - 106,368
Flat Cars:
A - 6,284
B - 9,833
C - 24,031
D - 10,995
Stock Cars:
A - 500
B - 2,791
C - 38,289
D - 10,326
Tank Cars:
A - 3
B - 653
C - 4,330
D - 3,545
Refrigerators:
A - 445
B - 1,738
C - 17,165
D - 374
John Nehrich had a data table with ARCI data in his old printed NEB&W freight car guides. Give me a few more minutes and I will recap that data as well.
John Hile
Gene <bierglaeser@...>
Thank you, John. That is exactly what I was looking for - right time - right data - just what I needed.
It is my intention to let this sort of information influence my freight car roster. I have other criteria but I'll let this show the way when there are choices to be made.
Gene Green
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It is my intention to let this sort of information influence my freight car roster. I have other criteria but I'll let this show the way when there are choices to be made.
Gene Green
--- In STMFC@..., "john66h" <john66h@...> wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@> wrote:
Does anyone know of a source for the average age by year of freight cars in interchange?
Gene,
I suspect what you are after is American Railway Car Institute data.
FWIW, Inside the back cover of the '49-'51 Carbuilders' Cyclopedia is the following data from ARCI for freight cars owned by class I RR's in 1947.
John Hile
John Hile
--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:
Gene,
As promised, here is a recap of the data in the old NEB&W guide. It is ARCI data for four years, all freight cars owned by Class I railroads in interchange service. Let me say that the bar chart is scaled in 40,000 car increments, there are no intermediate division lines, and it is reproduced in a rather small scale. I am estimating using an engineer's scale, so I'd say there is an error factor of +/- 1,000 or so.
A - 1906 and older
B - 1906 - 1910
C - 1911 - 1915
D - 1916 - 1920
E - 1921 - 1925
F - 1926 - 1930
G - 1931 - 1935
H - 1936 - 1940
I - 1941 - 1945
J - 1946 - 1950
K - 1951 - 1955
L - 1956 - 1960
Jan 1, 1946:
A - 42,000
B - 130,000
C - 160,000
D - 244,000
E - 395,000
F - 315,000
G - 45,000
H - 205,000
I - 239,000
J,K,L - n/a
Jan 1, 1951
A - 20,000
B - 60,000
C - 78,000
D - 155,000
E - 324,000
F - 305,000
G - 44,000
H - 202,000
I - 237,000
J - 305,000
K,L - n/a
Jan 1, 1956
A - 5,000
B - 35,000
C - 41,000
D - 75,000
E - 230,000
F - 266,000
G - 43,000
H - 197,000
I - 232,000
J - 302,000
K - 266,000
L - n/a
Jan 1, 1961
A - 1,000
B - 16,000
C - 25,000
D - 37,000
E - 110,000
F - 186,000
G - 40,000
H - 188,000
I - 225,000
J - 298,000
K - 265,000
L - 266,000
Hope this is helpful,
-John Hile
Does anyone know of a source for the average age by year of freight cars in interchange?
Gene,
As promised, here is a recap of the data in the old NEB&W guide. It is ARCI data for four years, all freight cars owned by Class I railroads in interchange service. Let me say that the bar chart is scaled in 40,000 car increments, there are no intermediate division lines, and it is reproduced in a rather small scale. I am estimating using an engineer's scale, so I'd say there is an error factor of +/- 1,000 or so.
A - 1906 and older
B - 1906 - 1910
C - 1911 - 1915
D - 1916 - 1920
E - 1921 - 1925
F - 1926 - 1930
G - 1931 - 1935
H - 1936 - 1940
I - 1941 - 1945
J - 1946 - 1950
K - 1951 - 1955
L - 1956 - 1960
Jan 1, 1946:
A - 42,000
B - 130,000
C - 160,000
D - 244,000
E - 395,000
F - 315,000
G - 45,000
H - 205,000
I - 239,000
J,K,L - n/a
Jan 1, 1951
A - 20,000
B - 60,000
C - 78,000
D - 155,000
E - 324,000
F - 305,000
G - 44,000
H - 202,000
I - 237,000
J - 305,000
K,L - n/a
Jan 1, 1956
A - 5,000
B - 35,000
C - 41,000
D - 75,000
E - 230,000
F - 266,000
G - 43,000
H - 197,000
I - 232,000
J - 302,000
K - 266,000
L - n/a
Jan 1, 1961
A - 1,000
B - 16,000
C - 25,000
D - 37,000
E - 110,000
F - 186,000
G - 40,000
H - 188,000
I - 225,000
J - 298,000
K - 265,000
L - 266,000
Hope this is helpful,
-John Hile
Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...>
Either "Railway Age" or "Progressive Railroading" publishes this
information once a year.
Tom, Bartlesville
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gene"
<bierglaeser@...> wrote:
Gene,
I suspect what you are after is American Railway Car Institute data.
FWIW, Inside the back cover of the '49-'51 Carbuilders' Cyclopedia is
the following data from ARCI for freight cars owned by class I RR's in
1947.
A - 1-5 yrs
B - 6-15 yrs
C - 16-34 yrs
D - 35+ yrs
Boxcars:
A - 89,569
B - 178,553
C - 431,288
D - 33,222
Gondolas:
A - 29,575
B - 59,224
C - 170,383
D - 56,564
Hoppers:
A - 72,851
B - 115,129
C - 244,858
D - 106,368
Flat Cars:
A - 6,284
B - 9,833
C - 24,031
D - 10,995
Stock Cars:
A - 500
B - 2,791
C - 38,289
D - 10,326
Tank Cars:
A - 3
B - 653
C - 4,330
D - 3,545
Refrigerators:
A - 445
B - 1,738
C - 17,165
D - 374
John Nehrich had a data table with ARCI data in his old printed NEB&W
freight car guides. Give me a few more minutes and I will recap that
data as well.
John Hile
information once a year.
Tom, Bartlesville
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gene"
<bierglaeser@...> wrote:
cars in interchange?
Does anyone know of a source for the average age by year of freight
Gene,
I suspect what you are after is American Railway Car Institute data.
FWIW, Inside the back cover of the '49-'51 Carbuilders' Cyclopedia is
the following data from ARCI for freight cars owned by class I RR's in
1947.
A - 1-5 yrs
B - 6-15 yrs
C - 16-34 yrs
D - 35+ yrs
Boxcars:
A - 89,569
B - 178,553
C - 431,288
D - 33,222
Gondolas:
A - 29,575
B - 59,224
C - 170,383
D - 56,564
Hoppers:
A - 72,851
B - 115,129
C - 244,858
D - 106,368
Flat Cars:
A - 6,284
B - 9,833
C - 24,031
D - 10,995
Stock Cars:
A - 500
B - 2,791
C - 38,289
D - 10,326
Tank Cars:
A - 3
B - 653
C - 4,330
D - 3,545
Refrigerators:
A - 445
B - 1,738
C - 17,165
D - 374
John Nehrich had a data table with ARCI data in his old printed NEB&W
freight car guides. Give me a few more minutes and I will recap that
data as well.
John Hile
Gene <bierglaeser@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "Tom Birkett" <tnbirke@...> wrote:
As for Railway Age, that certainly covers the time period of this list and most assuredly mine. In which issue was this car age information? Was it in the issue that listed car, locomotive and passenger car purchases for the preceding year?
Gene Green
Either "Railway Age" or "Progressive Railroading" publishes thisWouldn't Progressive Railroading be far too recent for the purposes of anyone in this group? Wasn't Progressive Railroading first published in the 1980s?
information once a year.
Tom, Bartlesville
As for Railway Age, that certainly covers the time period of this list and most assuredly mine. In which issue was this car age information? Was it in the issue that listed car, locomotive and passenger car purchases for the preceding year?
Gene Green
Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...>
PR is indeed probably too new...I didn't think through my response
sufficiently.
I believe the RA that you mentioned is correct
Tom
anyone in this group? Wasn't Progressive Railroading first published in
the 1980s?
As for Railway Age, that certainly covers the time period of this list
and most assuredly mine. In which issue was this car age information?
Was it in the issue that listed car, locomotive and passenger car
purchases for the preceding year?
Gene Green
sufficiently.
I believe the RA that you mentioned is correct
Tom
information once a year.Wouldn't Progressive Railroading be far too recent for the purposes of
Tom, Bartlesville
anyone in this group? Wasn't Progressive Railroading first published in
the 1980s?
As for Railway Age, that certainly covers the time period of this list
and most assuredly mine. In which issue was this car age information?
Was it in the issue that listed car, locomotive and passenger car
purchases for the preceding year?
Gene Green
Aley, Jeff A
Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same data (in Railway Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too close to The War for my use. If someone can send me a scan, I'll be happy to do the typing.
It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box cars were built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that most of that 59% are wood-sheathed.
Regards,
-Jeff
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of john66h
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
--- In STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:
I suspect what you are after is American Railway Car Institute data.
FWIW, Inside the back cover of the '49-'51 Carbuilders' Cyclopedia is the following data from ARCI for freight cars owned by class I RR's in 1947.
A - 1-5 yrs
B - 6-15 yrs
C - 16-34 yrs
D - 35+ yrs
Boxcars:
A - 89,569
B - 178,553
C - 431,288
D - 33,222
Gondolas:
A - 29,575
B - 59,224
C - 170,383
D - 56,564
Hoppers:
A - 72,851
B - 115,129
C - 244,858
D - 106,368
Flat Cars:
A - 6,284
B - 9,833
C - 24,031
D - 10,995
Stock Cars:
A - 500
B - 2,791
C - 38,289
D - 10,326
Tank Cars:
A - 3
B - 653
C - 4,330
D - 3,545
Refrigerators:
A - 445
B - 1,738
C - 17,165
D - 374
John Nehrich had a data table with ARCI data in his old printed NEB&W freight car guides. Give me a few more minutes and I will recap that data as well.
John Hile
It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box cars were built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that most of that 59% are wood-sheathed.
Regards,
-Jeff
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of john66h
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
--- In STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:
Gene,
Does anyone know of a source for the average age by year of freight cars in interchange?
I suspect what you are after is American Railway Car Institute data.
FWIW, Inside the back cover of the '49-'51 Carbuilders' Cyclopedia is the following data from ARCI for freight cars owned by class I RR's in 1947.
A - 1-5 yrs
B - 6-15 yrs
C - 16-34 yrs
D - 35+ yrs
Boxcars:
A - 89,569
B - 178,553
C - 431,288
D - 33,222
Gondolas:
A - 29,575
B - 59,224
C - 170,383
D - 56,564
Hoppers:
A - 72,851
B - 115,129
C - 244,858
D - 106,368
Flat Cars:
A - 6,284
B - 9,833
C - 24,031
D - 10,995
Stock Cars:
A - 500
B - 2,791
C - 38,289
D - 10,326
Tank Cars:
A - 3
B - 653
C - 4,330
D - 3,545
Refrigerators:
A - 445
B - 1,738
C - 17,165
D - 374
John Nehrich had a data table with ARCI data in his old printed NEB&W freight car guides. Give me a few more minutes and I will recap that data as well.
John Hile
On Jan 25, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:
Not to say that a lot of cars weren't wood sheathed but the two
largest fleets of cars that fit that time frame are the NYC USRA
steel box and PRR's X29, both obviously steel.
I think that you will also find that later data would show a
significant skew towards newer cars, as the period from 1941-45 had a
profound impact on the construction of new cars ;^)
Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
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Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same dataJeff,
(in Railway Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too
close to The War for my use. If someone can send me a scan, I'll
be happy to do the typing.
It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box
cars were built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that
most of that 59% are wood-sheathed.
Not to say that a lot of cars weren't wood sheathed but the two
largest fleets of cars that fit that time frame are the NYC USRA
steel box and PRR's X29, both obviously steel.
I think that you will also find that later data would show a
significant skew towards newer cars, as the period from 1941-45 had a
profound impact on the construction of new cars ;^)
Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ \
__<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
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Aley, Jeff A
Bruce,
D'oh! Somehow I was thinking the X29 and ARA cars were from the early thirties instead of the early TWENTIES. Mea culpa!
I do realize that the car fleets changed rapidly in the immediate postwar era. That's why I'm looking for '52 or '53 data.
Regards,
-Jeff
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:19 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
On Jan 25, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:
Not to say that a lot of cars weren't wood sheathed but the two
largest fleets of cars that fit that time frame are the NYC USRA
steel box and PRR's X29, both obviously steel.
I think that you will also find that later data would show a
significant skew towards newer cars, as the period from 1941-45 had a
profound impact on the construction of new cars ;^)
Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ \
__<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________\|_|________________________________|
| O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
D'oh! Somehow I was thinking the X29 and ARA cars were from the early thirties instead of the early TWENTIES. Mea culpa!
I do realize that the car fleets changed rapidly in the immediate postwar era. That's why I'm looking for '52 or '53 data.
Regards,
-Jeff
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:19 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
On Jan 25, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:
Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same dataJeff,
(in Railway Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too
close to The War for my use. If someone can send me a scan, I'll
be happy to do the typing.
It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box
cars were built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that
most of that 59% are wood-sheathed.
Not to say that a lot of cars weren't wood sheathed but the two
largest fleets of cars that fit that time frame are the NYC USRA
steel box and PRR's X29, both obviously steel.
I think that you will also find that later data would show a
significant skew towards newer cars, as the period from 1941-45 had a
profound impact on the construction of new cars ;^)
Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ \
__<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________\|_|________________________________|
| O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
A. Premo <armprem2@...>
Since I model 1948 I found the information very valuable.Doing some quick math the percentages of cars by type could be a valuable tool for manufacturers as well as hobbyist.I may have to do some selective pruning as well as revising my need list.Armand Premo
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
On Jan 25, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:
> Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same data
> (in Railway Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too
> close to The War for my use. If someone can send me a scan, I'll
> be happy to do the typing.
>
> It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box
> cars were built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that
> most of that 59% are wood-sheathed.
Jeff,
Not to say that a lot of cars weren't wood sheathed but the two
largest fleets of cars that fit that time frame are the NYC USRA
steel box and PRR's X29, both obviously steel.
I think that you will also find that later data would show a
significant skew towards newer cars, as the period from 1941-45 had a
profound impact on the construction of new cars ;^)
Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ \
__<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________\|_|________________________________|
| O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10 06:32:00
____________________________________________________________
Globe Life Insurance
$1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam.
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From: Bruce Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
On Jan 25, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:
> Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same data
> (in Railway Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too
> close to The War for my use. If someone can send me a scan, I'll
> be happy to do the typing.
>
> It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box
> cars were built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that
> most of that 59% are wood-sheathed.
Jeff,
Not to say that a lot of cars weren't wood sheathed but the two
largest fleets of cars that fit that time frame are the NYC USRA
steel box and PRR's X29, both obviously steel.
I think that you will also find that later data would show a
significant skew towards newer cars, as the period from 1941-45 had a
profound impact on the construction of new cars ;^)
Regards
Bruce
Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ \
__<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________\|_|________________________________|
| O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10 06:32:00
____________________________________________________________
Globe Life Insurance
$1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d3f567b4eac5ca6a13st05duc
devansprr
--- In STMFC@..., "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:
Several years ago I did an analysis of the '43 ORER (granted a little early for your use) for all X cars (I combined XM, XA, and others - newbie mistake). In '43 the ORER indicated wood or steal sheathed for nearly all roads. I came up with 56% wood sheathed, 44% steel for the North American fleet. Note that CP and CN were nearly 12% of that fleet, and they were a little over 90% wood sheathed. If you remove PRR, NYC, and B&O from the NA count (the three biggest eastern roads, which had transitioned heavily to steel sheathed cars) and CP and CN (because people believe those cars did not wonder south that often), the remaining roads were 63% wood sheathed and 37% steel - almost 2:1 wood sheathed.
Of the top 20 X car fleets in NA, only PRR, NYC, and B&O show a majority steel sheathed fleet (and each by a large margin - combined the three roads were over 85% steel sheathed). SP and IC were about a 50-50 split. Most of the other top 20 road's wood cars outnumbered their steel cars by 2 to 1, so it wasn't just the smaller, perhaps more resource constrained roads that lacked steel X cars.
It is also important to note that North American sub-40' cars (mostly 36' cars) outnumbered 50 footers by over 2:1, and taking even CP and CN out of the mix, US 36' cars still outnumbered 50' cars (70k vs. 45k). Southern had more 36' cars (~13,650) than all but the largest 21 railroad's X-car fleets (C&O was number 22, with ~12,700 X cars of all lengths and types). You can never have enough Southern 36' XM cars if you model through WWII. For reasons that escape me, that remains a resin only option.
Dave Evans
Jeff,
Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same data (in Railway Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too close to The War for my use. If someone can send me a scan, I'll be happy to do the typing.
It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box cars were built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that most of that 59% are wood-sheathed.
Regards,
-Jeff
Several years ago I did an analysis of the '43 ORER (granted a little early for your use) for all X cars (I combined XM, XA, and others - newbie mistake). In '43 the ORER indicated wood or steal sheathed for nearly all roads. I came up with 56% wood sheathed, 44% steel for the North American fleet. Note that CP and CN were nearly 12% of that fleet, and they were a little over 90% wood sheathed. If you remove PRR, NYC, and B&O from the NA count (the three biggest eastern roads, which had transitioned heavily to steel sheathed cars) and CP and CN (because people believe those cars did not wonder south that often), the remaining roads were 63% wood sheathed and 37% steel - almost 2:1 wood sheathed.
Of the top 20 X car fleets in NA, only PRR, NYC, and B&O show a majority steel sheathed fleet (and each by a large margin - combined the three roads were over 85% steel sheathed). SP and IC were about a 50-50 split. Most of the other top 20 road's wood cars outnumbered their steel cars by 2 to 1, so it wasn't just the smaller, perhaps more resource constrained roads that lacked steel X cars.
It is also important to note that North American sub-40' cars (mostly 36' cars) outnumbered 50 footers by over 2:1, and taking even CP and CN out of the mix, US 36' cars still outnumbered 50' cars (70k vs. 45k). Southern had more 36' cars (~13,650) than all but the largest 21 railroad's X-car fleets (C&O was number 22, with ~12,700 X cars of all lengths and types). You can never have enough Southern 36' XM cars if you model through WWII. For reasons that escape me, that remains a resin only option.
Dave Evans
A. Premo <armprem2@...>
David,Going even further using this data one can come up with the % of each car type in relation to the total car fleet of a given period (year).After perusing the information tank cars represent a minuscule percentage of the total car fleet.Armand Premo
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Evans
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:45 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
--- In STMFC@..., "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:
>
> Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same data (in Railway Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too close to The War for my use. If someone can send me a scan, I'll be happy to do the typing.
>
> It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box cars were built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that most of that 59% are wood-sheathed.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Jeff
>
Jeff,
Several years ago I did an analysis of the '43 ORER (granted a little early for your use) for all X cars (I combined XM, XA, and others - newbie mistake). In '43 the ORER indicated wood or steal sheathed for nearly all roads. I came up with 56% wood sheathed, 44% steel for the North American fleet. Note that CP and CN were nearly 12% of that fleet, and they were a little over 90% wood sheathed. If you remove PRR, NYC, and B&O from the NA count (the three biggest eastern roads, which had transitioned heavily to steel sheathed cars) and CP and CN (because people believe those cars did not wonder south that often), the remaining roads were 63% wood sheathed and 37% steel - almost 2:1 wood sheathed.
Of the top 20 X car fleets in NA, only PRR, NYC, and B&O show a majority steel sheathed fleet (and each by a large margin - combined the three roads were over 85% steel sheathed). SP and IC were about a 50-50 split. Most of the other top 20 road's wood cars outnumbered their steel cars by 2 to 1, so it wasn't just the smaller, perhaps more resource constrained roads that lacked steel X cars.
It is also important to note that North American sub-40' cars (mostly 36' cars) outnumbered 50 footers by over 2:1, and taking even CP and CN out of the mix, US 36' cars still outnumbered 50' cars (70k vs. 45k). Southern had more 36' cars (~13,650) than all but the largest 21 railroad's X-car fleets (C&O was number 22, with ~12,700 X cars of all lengths and types). You can never have enough Southern 36' XM cars if you model through WWII. For reasons that escape me, that remains a resin only option.
Dave Evans
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: Dave Evans
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:45 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
--- In STMFC@..., "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:
>
> Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same data (in Railway Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too close to The War for my use. If someone can send me a scan, I'll be happy to do the typing.
>
> It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box cars were built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that most of that 59% are wood-sheathed.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Jeff
>
Jeff,
Several years ago I did an analysis of the '43 ORER (granted a little early for your use) for all X cars (I combined XM, XA, and others - newbie mistake). In '43 the ORER indicated wood or steal sheathed for nearly all roads. I came up with 56% wood sheathed, 44% steel for the North American fleet. Note that CP and CN were nearly 12% of that fleet, and they were a little over 90% wood sheathed. If you remove PRR, NYC, and B&O from the NA count (the three biggest eastern roads, which had transitioned heavily to steel sheathed cars) and CP and CN (because people believe those cars did not wonder south that often), the remaining roads were 63% wood sheathed and 37% steel - almost 2:1 wood sheathed.
Of the top 20 X car fleets in NA, only PRR, NYC, and B&O show a majority steel sheathed fleet (and each by a large margin - combined the three roads were over 85% steel sheathed). SP and IC were about a 50-50 split. Most of the other top 20 road's wood cars outnumbered their steel cars by 2 to 1, so it wasn't just the smaller, perhaps more resource constrained roads that lacked steel X cars.
It is also important to note that North American sub-40' cars (mostly 36' cars) outnumbered 50 footers by over 2:1, and taking even CP and CN out of the mix, US 36' cars still outnumbered 50' cars (70k vs. 45k). Southern had more 36' cars (~13,650) than all but the largest 21 railroad's X-car fleets (C&O was number 22, with ~12,700 X cars of all lengths and types). You can never have enough Southern 36' XM cars if you model through WWII. For reasons that escape me, that remains a resin only option.
Dave Evans
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10 06:32:00
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Richard Hendrickson
On Jan 26, 2011, at 8:09 AM, A. Premo wrote:
being modeled. Tank cars were all over the place in the oil-
producing and oil consuming regions of the southwest and far west,
much less so where coal was the major industrial and heating fuel.
In addition, western railroads like the SP and Santa Fe had
substantial fleets of tank cars in mostly captive service hauling
locomotive fuel.
Richard Hendrickson
David,Going even further using this data one can come up with the %Yes but, once again, Armand, one has to think in terms of the region
of each car type in relation to the total car fleet of a given
period (year).After perusing the information tank cars represent a
minuscule percentage of the total car fleet.Armand Premo
being modeled. Tank cars were all over the place in the oil-
producing and oil consuming regions of the southwest and far west,
much less so where coal was the major industrial and heating fuel.
In addition, western railroads like the SP and Santa Fe had
substantial fleets of tank cars in mostly captive service hauling
locomotive fuel.
Richard Hendrickson
A. Premo <armprem2@...>
Precisely.This is exactly what I have been trying to raise as a point of discussion..Armand Premo
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
On Jan 26, 2011, at 8:09 AM, A. Premo wrote:
> David,Going even further using this data one can come up with the %
> of each car type in relation to the total car fleet of a given
> period (year).After perusing the information tank cars represent a
> minuscule percentage of the total car fleet.Armand Premo
Yes but, once again, Armand, one has to think in terms of the region
being modeled. Tank cars were all over the place in the oil-
producing and oil consuming regions of the southwest and far west,
much less so where coal was the major industrial and heating fuel.
In addition, western railroads like the SP and Santa Fe had
substantial fleets of tank cars in mostly captive service hauling
locomotive fuel.
Richard Hendrickson
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10 06:32:00
____________________________________________________________
Travelocity Vacation Package Deals
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From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
On Jan 26, 2011, at 8:09 AM, A. Premo wrote:
> David,Going even further using this data one can come up with the %
> of each car type in relation to the total car fleet of a given
> period (year).After perusing the information tank cars represent a
> minuscule percentage of the total car fleet.Armand Premo
Yes but, once again, Armand, one has to think in terms of the region
being modeled. Tank cars were all over the place in the oil-
producing and oil consuming regions of the southwest and far west,
much less so where coal was the major industrial and heating fuel.
In addition, western railroads like the SP and Santa Fe had
substantial fleets of tank cars in mostly captive service hauling
locomotive fuel.
Richard Hendrickson
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10 06:32:00
____________________________________________________________
Travelocity Vacation Package Deals
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
. . . western railroads like the SP and Santa Fe had substantial fleets of tank cars in mostly captive service hauling locomotive fuel.This may well be true for Santa Fe, but for SP, no more than a third of its tank car fleet was in captive fuel service. It's worth adding that between Santa Fe, SP (+ T&NO), and UP were owned about two- thirds of all RAILROAD-owned tank cars in 1950.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
SUVCWORR@...
Armand,
I think that is a misconception based on a regional bias. I have compiled the data for 1953. While tank cars only compose 0.6% of the cars owned by railroads, they also compose 55.4% of the privately owned rail cars. Overall tank cars accounted for 7.4% of all rail cars in 1953. There were 5 times as many tank cars as covered hoppers; nearly twice as many tank cars as flat cars; more than 3 times as many tanks as stock cars; more than 20 times as many tank cars as ventilated reefers; and nearly 25% more tank cars than reefers.
Rich Orr
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I think that is a misconception based on a regional bias. I have compiled the data for 1953. While tank cars only compose 0.6% of the cars owned by railroads, they also compose 55.4% of the privately owned rail cars. Overall tank cars accounted for 7.4% of all rail cars in 1953. There were 5 times as many tank cars as covered hoppers; nearly twice as many tank cars as flat cars; more than 3 times as many tanks as stock cars; more than 20 times as many tank cars as ventilated reefers; and nearly 25% more tank cars than reefers.
Rich Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Premo <armprem2@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 11:09 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
David,Going even further using this data one can come up with the % of each car
type in relation to the total car fleet of a given period (year).After perusing
the information tank cars represent a minuscule percentage of the total car
fleet.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Evans
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:45 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
--- In STMFC@..., "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:
>
> Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same data (in Railway
Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too close to The War for my use.
If someone can send me a scan, I'll be happy to do the typing.
>
> It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box cars were
built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that most of that 59% are
wood-sheathed.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Jeff
>
Jeff,
Several years ago I did an analysis of the '43 ORER (granted a little early
for your use) for all X cars (I combined XM, XA, and others - newbie mistake).
In '43 the ORER indicated wood or steal sheathed for nearly all roads. I came up
with 56% wood sheathed, 44% steel for the North American fleet. Note that CP and
CN were nearly 12% of that fleet, and they were a little over 90% wood sheathed.
If you remove PRR, NYC, and B&O from the NA count (the three biggest eastern
roads, which had transitioned heavily to steel sheathed cars) and CP and CN
(because people believe those cars did not wonder south that often), the
remaining roads were 63% wood sheathed and 37% steel - almost 2:1 wood sheathed.
Of the top 20 X car fleets in NA, only PRR, NYC, and B&O show a majority steel
sheathed fleet (and each by a large margin - combined the three roads were over
85% steel sheathed). SP and IC were about a 50-50 split. Most of the other top
20 road's wood cars outnumbered their steel cars by 2 to 1, so it wasn't just
the smaller, perhaps more resource constrained roads that lacked steel X cars.
It is also important to note that North American sub-40' cars (mostly 36'
cars) outnumbered 50 footers by over 2:1, and taking even CP and CN out of the
mix, US 36' cars still outnumbered 50' cars (70k vs. 45k). Southern had more 36'
cars (~13,650) than all but the largest 21 railroad's X-car fleets (C&O was
number 22, with ~12,700 X cars of all lengths and types). You can never have
enough Southern 36' XM cars if you model through WWII. For reasons that escape
me, that remains a resin only option.
Dave Evans
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10
06:32:00
____________________________________________________________
Mortgage Rates Hit 2.99%
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Gov't Refi Programs
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------------------------------------
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From: A. Premo <armprem2@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 11:09 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
David,Going even further using this data one can come up with the % of each car
type in relation to the total car fleet of a given period (year).After perusing
the information tank cars represent a minuscule percentage of the total car
fleet.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Evans
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:45 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
--- In STMFC@..., "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:
>
> Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same data (in Railway
Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too close to The War for my use.
If someone can send me a scan, I'll be happy to do the typing.
>
> It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box cars were
built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that most of that 59% are
wood-sheathed.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Jeff
>
Jeff,
Several years ago I did an analysis of the '43 ORER (granted a little early
for your use) for all X cars (I combined XM, XA, and others - newbie mistake).
In '43 the ORER indicated wood or steal sheathed for nearly all roads. I came up
with 56% wood sheathed, 44% steel for the North American fleet. Note that CP and
CN were nearly 12% of that fleet, and they were a little over 90% wood sheathed.
If you remove PRR, NYC, and B&O from the NA count (the three biggest eastern
roads, which had transitioned heavily to steel sheathed cars) and CP and CN
(because people believe those cars did not wonder south that often), the
remaining roads were 63% wood sheathed and 37% steel - almost 2:1 wood sheathed.
Of the top 20 X car fleets in NA, only PRR, NYC, and B&O show a majority steel
sheathed fleet (and each by a large margin - combined the three roads were over
85% steel sheathed). SP and IC were about a 50-50 split. Most of the other top
20 road's wood cars outnumbered their steel cars by 2 to 1, so it wasn't just
the smaller, perhaps more resource constrained roads that lacked steel X cars.
It is also important to note that North American sub-40' cars (mostly 36'
cars) outnumbered 50 footers by over 2:1, and taking even CP and CN out of the
mix, US 36' cars still outnumbered 50' cars (70k vs. 45k). Southern had more 36'
cars (~13,650) than all but the largest 21 railroad's X-car fleets (C&O was
number 22, with ~12,700 X cars of all lengths and types). You can never have
enough Southern 36' XM cars if you model through WWII. For reasons that escape
me, that remains a resin only option.
Dave Evans
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10
06:32:00
____________________________________________________________
Mortgage Rates Hit 2.99%
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Gov't Refi Programs
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d40473f8293a8b91a9st05vuc
------------------------------------
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By 1960, 3.9% of all railroad owned equipment was covered hoppers.
The percentage of covered hoppers in the privately owned fleet of
272,242 cars was undoubtedly higher so the ratio of tank cars to
covered hoppers by 1960 probably declined to about 3:1 and by 1967
was only about 2:1. (Only mentioned to illustrate the trend.)
On western railroads where open hoppers were far less numerous, I
expect the percentage of covered hoppers by 1960 may have been as
much as 5%-6% of all freight cars, though tank cars no doubt still
outnumbered them.
Tim O'Connor
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The percentage of covered hoppers in the privately owned fleet of
272,242 cars was undoubtedly higher so the ratio of tank cars to
covered hoppers by 1960 probably declined to about 3:1 and by 1967
was only about 2:1. (Only mentioned to illustrate the trend.)
On western railroads where open hoppers were far less numerous, I
expect the percentage of covered hoppers by 1960 may have been as
much as 5%-6% of all freight cars, though tank cars no doubt still
outnumbered them.
Tim O'Connor
I think that is a misconception based on a regional bias. I have compiled the data for 1953. While tank cars only compose 0.6% of the cars owned by railroads, they also compose 55.4% of the privately owned rail cars. Overall tank cars accounted for 7.4% of all rail cars in 1953. There were 5 times as many tank cars as covered hoppers; nearly twice as many tank cars as flat cars; more than 3 times as many tanks as stock cars; more than 20 times as many tank cars as ventilated reefers; and nearly 25% more tank cars than reefers.
Rich Orr