Paint


A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

Try as I might to master Polly Scale paint,I turn to the collective intelligence of this list for advise.A local freight car guru tells me that Polly Scale is very forgiving.I have even resorted to Irish Blessings (a few French ones too)all to no avail.The results are nearly always flawed.I have used various thinners and during the same session I get splatters followed by a good flow,then nothing.I clean my air brush frequently,use the recommended tips and have yet to get consistent results.How I miss Accu Paint.Any suggestions short of Voodoo will be appreciated.Armand Premo

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Rob & Bev Manley
 

Armand,
It took a while but I made peace with Pollyscale paint.
I had to switch for many reasons. Less toxic, doesn't bother my wife and availabliity. LHSs with a variety of paints has dissappeared in the South side Chicago, NW Indiana region.
The lessons learned are as follows:
Always mix paint thouroughly.
Strain paint before loading into brush with a kitchen faucet strainer screen forced into the "top" of a recycled Micro Sol/Set bottle. Cut the bottom off and push the screen into the inside of the former spout.
If using a Paasche H brush,convert to a Number 3 tip and needle.
Kiss subtle airbrush weathering with a #1 goodbye. Try Pan Pastels instead.
Spray with a regulator and adjust pressure to about 35 PSI.
Thin with distilled water. Colors vary with thinning mixes. Usually browns and Black when new don't need thinning but will stretch further when thinned. Thin to 1% or 2% milk consistency. I thin by eye and add water if it won't shoot through brush.
Use a feed cup (funnel).
Clean between colors with a shot of Windex ammonia window cleaner or equal. Rinse with warm water.
Final clean by dissassembling brush and rodding out with pipe cleaners and Q-Tips soaked in Laquer thinner.
Find a source of FRESH Polyscale.
At some shops the paint sits too long because it is too easy to go for a preassembled car.

Some of the benefits are that PolyScale is very brushable and levels quite nicely. Even small runs or buildup in corners while wet will look more tolerable when dry. Things that work well with a quality artist acrylic or watercolor brush: Wheel faces and backs, truck frames for freightcars and engines, details and castings.
It takes Future Floor finish for a gloss overcoat really well (no thinning) and flats down with Poly Scale's flat nicely.

Sincerely,
Rob Manley
Midwest Mod-U-Trak
"Better modeling through personal embarassment"

----- Original Message -----
From: A. Premo
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Paint



Try as I might to master Polly Scale paint,I turn to the collective
intelligence of this list for advise.A local freight car guru tells me that
Polly Scale is very forgiving.I have even resorted to Irish Blessings (a
few French ones too)all to no avail.The results are nearly always flawed.I
have used various thinners and during the same session I get splatters
followed by a good flow,then nothing.I clean my air brush frequently,use the
recommended tips and have yet to get consistent results.How I miss Accu
Paint.Any suggestions short of Voodoo will be appreciated.Armand Premo

__________________________________________________________
$65/Hr Job - 25 Openings
Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d3caafc770bfc4979dst03duc


gary laakso
 

I have used Tru Color Paint as a substitute for my favorite AccuPaint, though i have a stash of it. Give it a try, i think you will like the results.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net

----- Original Message -----
From: A. Premo
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 1/23/2011 5:33:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Paint



Try as I might to master Polly Scale paint,I turn to the collective
intelligence of this list for advise.A local freight car guru tells me that
Polly Scale is very forgiving.I have even resorted to Irish Blessings (a
few French ones too)all to no avail.The results are nearly always flawed.I
have used various thinners and during the same session I get splatters
followed by a good flow,then nothing.I clean my air brush frequently,use the
recommended tips and have yet to get consistent results.How I miss Accu
Paint.Any suggestions short of Voodoo will be appreciated.Armand Premo

__________________________________________________________
$65/Hr Job - 25 Openings
Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d3caafc770bfc4979dst03duc



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bill Vaughn
 

I have heard shooting at lower pressures help.  I have not tried it though.
Bill Vaughn

--- On Sun, 1/23/11, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@earthlink.net> wrote:

From: gary laakso <vasa0vasa@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Paint
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com, STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 4:33 PM

  I have used Tru Color Paint as a substitute for my favorite AccuPaint, though i have a stash of it.  Give it a try, i think you will like the results. 

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net


----- Original Message -----
From: A. Premo
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 1/23/2011 5:33:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Paint


 
Try as I might to master Polly Scale paint,I turn to the collective
intelligence of this list for advise.A local freight car guru tells me that
Polly Scale is very forgiving.I have even resorted to Irish Blessings (a
few French ones too)all to no avail.The results are nearly always flawed.I
have used various thinners and during the same session I get splatters
followed by a good flow,then nothing.I clean my air brush frequently,use the
recommended tips and have yet to get consistent results.How I miss Accu
Paint.Any suggestions short of Voodoo will be appreciated.Armand Premo

__________________________________________________________
$65/Hr Job - 25 Openings
Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d3caafc770bfc4979dst03duc



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

Thank you Bob.While I use many of your tips you have helped me identify some of my problems.The few area hobby shops have old paint.While I mix thoroughly I never thought to strain thinned paint.Very good idea.I take your tips to friends having similar problems and report back.Thanks again.Armand

----- Original Message -----
From: Rob & Bev Manley
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Paint



Armand,
It took a while but I made peace with Pollyscale paint.
I had to switch for many reasons. Less toxic, doesn't bother my wife and availabliity. LHSs with a variety of paints has dissappeared in the South side Chicago, NW Indiana region.
The lessons learned are as follows:
Always mix paint thouroughly.
Strain paint before loading into brush with a kitchen faucet strainer screen forced into the "top" of a recycled Micro Sol/Set bottle. Cut the bottom off and push the screen into the inside of the former spout.
If using a Paasche H brush,convert to a Number 3 tip and needle.
Kiss subtle airbrush weathering with a #1 goodbye. Try Pan Pastels instead.
Spray with a regulator and adjust pressure to about 35 PSI.
Thin with distilled water. Colors vary with thinning mixes. Usually browns and Black when new don't need thinning but will stretch further when thinned. Thin to 1% or 2% milk consistency. I thin by eye and add water if it won't shoot through brush.
Use a feed cup (funnel).
Clean between colors with a shot of Windex ammonia window cleaner or equal. Rinse with warm water.
Final clean by dissassembling brush and rodding out with pipe cleaners and Q-Tips soaked in Laquer thinner.
Find a source of FRESH Polyscale.
At some shops the paint sits too long because it is too easy to go for a preassembled car.

Some of the benefits are that PolyScale is very brushable and levels quite nicely. Even small runs or buildup in corners while wet will look more tolerable when dry. Things that work well with a quality artist acrylic or watercolor brush: Wheel faces and backs, truck frames for freightcars and engines, details and castings.
It takes Future Floor finish for a gloss overcoat really well (no thinning) and flats down with Poly Scale's flat nicely.

Sincerely,
Rob Manley
Midwest Mod-U-Trak
"Better modeling through personal embarassment"

----- Original Message -----
From: A. Premo
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Paint

Try as I might to master Polly Scale paint,I turn to the collective
intelligence of this list for advise.A local freight car guru tells me that
Polly Scale is very forgiving.I have even resorted to Irish Blessings (a
few French ones too)all to no avail.The results are nearly always flawed.I
have used various thinners and during the same session I get splatters
followed by a good flow,then nothing.I clean my air brush frequently,use the
recommended tips and have yet to get consistent results.How I miss Accu
Paint.Any suggestions short of Voodoo will be appreciated.Armand Premo

__________________________________________________________
$65/Hr Job - 25 Openings
Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d3caafc770bfc4979dst03duc








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michaelashelley <mashelley@...>
 

Armand, here's what I do. Maybe it'll help.

Prime the model. I've used a spray can of Dupli-Color sandable white primer most recently, but it does need to be lightly sanded. I've also used PollyScale Undercoat Light Grey, which I don't think is really a primer, but it seems to help.

Shake, then stir the paint thoroughly. Thin with automotive windshield washer fluid (the premixed stuff you buy in gallon jugs) to the approximate consistency of 2% milk. Straining is optional but always a good idea. I spray at 20-25 psi using an old Badger bottom-feed single action airbrush. I rarely get clogs with this arrangement, but if so, they're easily cleared with a paintbrush dipped in water or washer fluid. (Just a wipe around the needle with the brush is usually all that's needed.) I clean up with the same washer fluid.

If you can't find premixed washer fluid, a mix of 50% distilled water/50% denatured alcohol with a drop of dishwashing soap works just as well. Delta Ceramcoat Acrylic Thinner can also be used. You'd think that the blue washer fluid would cause the color of the paint to change, but I don't detect any. If it does tint everything blue, just call it a scale effect due to distance.

I've had this work well in conditions from 50 - 90 degrees F, humidity from 30% to 100%, on old and new paint. It works for Model Master Acryl as well, which is fortunate for me, as I have trouble finding PollyScale recently. (I will be sad when my Flat Aluminum runs out, and I'm still looking for a decent white paint.)

Good luck,
Michael A. Shelley

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "A. Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

Try as I might to master Polly Scale paint,I turn to the collective
intelligence of this list for advise.A local freight car guru tells me that
Polly Scale is very forgiving.I have even resorted to Irish Blessings (a
few French ones too)all to no avail.The results are nearly always flawed.I
have used various thinners and during the same session I get splatters
followed by a good flow,then nothing.I clean my air brush frequently,use the
recommended tips and have yet to get consistent results.How I miss Accu
Paint.Any suggestions short of Voodoo will be appreciated.Armand Premo

____________________________________________________________
$65/Hr Job - 25 Openings
Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d3caafc770bfc4979dst03duc


Andy Harman
 

At 05:26 PM 1/23/2011 -0500, you wrote:
Any suggestions short of Voodoo will be appreciated.
Scalecoat.

Andy


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Scalecoat II? Or the real stuff?

SGL



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
Harman
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:49 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Paint





At 05:26 PM 1/23/2011 -0500, you wrote:
Any suggestions short of Voodoo will be appreciated.
Scalecoat.

Andy








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Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 23, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

Scalecoat II? Or the real stuff?
Yeah, Schuyler, I wonder about that too. Why do people keep using
water based paints when they seem so often to be a problem?

Granted, you may not have a choice if you don't have a spray booth
that's vented to the outside. However, I have a booth with a BIG
kitchen vent fan that exhausts straight through the wall, and I have
a respirator hanging right next to it. I use Scalecoat I on brass
and Scalecoat II on plastic and never have a problem with my 25 year
old Badger double-acting air brush. If I keep cleaning it out with
lacquer thinner, it never gets clogged. I also use Floquil on
projects where I want a really flat finish and don't intend to apply
decals, and for weathering I mix up my own dirty washes using Pactra
enamel. No problems with those, either. Several years ago, I tried
air brushing a couple of different water-based paints and had the
same sort of problems others describe, so I went back to solvent-
based paints and I've never regretted it.

Richard Hendrickson


James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

FWIW, I use Isopropyl alcohol and thin the Polly Scale 10-15% with it; I find that it is more important, when using Polly Scale, that you accurately measure paint and thinner.



After I have thoroughly mixed the Polly Scale in the jar (using one of those nifty paint stirrers from MicroMark), I use eyedroppers to measure out the paint and thinner by "drops."  I've learned that the eyedropper size I use hold about 40 drops of paint; so based on the size of the project, I simply count the number of eyedroppers of paint and then add the correct number of drops of isopropyl alcohol; I usually thin at 15%; however, when spraying colors like yellow, orange or silver, I typically cut back the amount of thinner to 10%.  After adding the alcohol to the paint I use the paint stirrer again.  If I am using the airbrush to weather, I typically reverse the proportions.



I keep a small tub of water with detergent on the floor next to my outside vented spray booth.  After each color I submerge the airbrush (and color cup) into the soapy water and spray the water through the brush in the tub.  I also keep a standard airbrush paint jar at the booth which is full of blue windshield washer fluid; after submerging the brush in the soapy water mix, I attach the bottle of washer fluid to the brush and spary some through; I will also put some windshield washer fluid in the separate color cup and spray it as well; typically, when I am finished the painting session, and have sprayed the windshield washer fluid through my Badger 175, I "leave" some washer fluid in the airbrush.



I spray at 15-20 psi; I have been using Polly Scale for several years and am very happy with the results; I still use solvent based paints for some applications, but the majority of spray painting I do is with Polly Scale. YMMV.



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD


Craig Zeni
 

2c. Re: Paint
Posted by: "Richard Hendrickson" rhendrickson@opendoor.com n1605g
Date: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:12 pm ((PST))

On Jan 23, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

Scalecoat II? Or the real stuff?
Yeah, Schuyler, I wonder about that too. Why do people keep using
water based paints when they seem so often to be a problem?

Granted, you may not have a choice if you don't have a spray booth
that's vented to the outside. However, I have a booth with a BIG
kitchen vent fan that exhausts straight through the wall, and I have
a respirator hanging right next to it. I use Scalecoat I on brass
and Scalecoat II on plastic and never have a problem with my 25 year
old Badger double-acting air brush. If I keep cleaning it out with
lacquer thinner, it never gets clogged. I also use Floquil on
projects where I want a really flat finish and don't intend to apply
decals, and for weathering I mix up my own dirty washes using Pactra
enamel. No problems with those, either. Several years ago, I tried
air brushing a couple of different water-based paints and had the
same sort of problems others describe, so I went back to solvent-
based paints and I've never regretted it.
What he said. After several years of fighting the booger-flingin' airbrush cloggin' alligator-skin-texture Pollyscales, I went back to Scalecoat 1, Scalecoat II and Floquil cut with their glaze. Yes they take longer to dry...I give things I paint with SC II about three weeks to cure. This would make Jim Six go nuts, but my modeling isn't a race against time or whatever... Yes they smell - I have a paint booth. But they don't spatter, they spray dead nuts reliably, cover evenly, and dry glossy ready for decals. I spray through a 20 year old Paasche VL, thin SC 1 and Floquil with lacquer thinner and thin SC II with their thinner. Reliable, predictable excellent results.



Craig Zeni
Join the Penn Central Railroad HS at www.PCRRHS.org


Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

In defense (sort of) of acrylics - I do about 95% of my painting with
WATER SOLUBLE, NOT "WATER BASED" acrylics. I too really struggled
when I started and there are aspects that are certainly more work
than other paints. Among the most important things to do are to have
the right airbrush and to understand that acrylics need to be kept
wet. So, for example, a double action airbrush, except in the most
skilled hands, is a recipe for disaster, as blowing air through
without paint will dry the residual paint and clog the brush. I thin
with diH2O for this reason as well, since it slows drying time.
Goobers, blobs and spatters are easily addressed with an in-bottle
filter or straining the paint and an in-the-air-line moisture
filter. The final thing is to know when to quit... if you get a clog
in your airbrush, you're done. It is time to soak the airbrush in
cleaner/stripper and go get a beer. On the plus side, these paints
are remarkable in their leveling properties, dry very quickly, can
provide very realistic finishes and in many cases have some of the
finest pigement particles of any paint. In particular, I like the
Model Master Acyl line, but also use PolyScale.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Andy Harman
 

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:41:26 -0600, Bruce Smith wrote
wet. So, for example, a double action airbrush, except in the most
skilled hands, is a recipe for disaster
I painted with a single action for over 20 years, always being told that double actions
weren't for sissies. The first time I ever tried a double action (VL), some time around
1997 I think, I got great results (with Pollyscale no less) and never have used my H since.

filter. The final thing is to know when to quit... if you get a clog
in your airbrush, you're done. It is time to soak the airbrush in
cleaner/stripper and go get a beer.
This is a recipe for dying of alcohol poisoning before ever completing a base coat :-)

Then again, one could use Scalecoat and not worry about all this. I am with Richard
100% on this. The primary reason not to use solvent base paints is because they aren't
politically correct, and because the hobby industry has been loudly beating the acrylic
drum for more than a decade now. Those of us who were around before that know better.
And I'm only approximately half Richard's age ;-)

There are some pretty nice acrylics. If Tamiya made more railroad colors, I'd probably
be using them a lot more. They were making fine acrylics long before the first
gummy-bear brews were concocted. I've used Pollyscale with some success, but there is
no reason to use an acrylic for a base coat when I have something else available that
will do the job. I also believe if the "flex" agent were eliminated from the brands of
acrylic that use it, much of the difficulty would go away or at least be simplified. To
cripple the entire painting process on account of delrin is just not a good idea.

Andy


Andy Harman
 

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 23:13:58 -0500, Schuyler Larrabee wrote
Scalecoat II? Or the real stuff?
Both. I prefer Scalecoat II, but some colors are just not available - although they may
actually be out there if you special order. Few hobby shops stock a full rack of
Scalecoat anymore. When I do use Scalecoat I, I thin it with ScII thinner which works
fine and makes it less likely to attack the plastic.

Andy


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Craig Zeni wrote:
What he said. After several years of fighting . . . I went back to Scalecoat 1, Scalecoat II and Floquil cut with their glaze . . . they don't spatter, they spray dead nuts reliably, cover evenly, and dry glossy ready for decals. Reliable, predictable excellent results.
Full agreement. I have only experimented a little with the water- soluble acrylics, but I'm like Craig and Richard--I know how to get the results I want with Floquil and Scalecoat. "Nuf said.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Quite obviously paint choice is about as personal as...uh...one's favorite steam engine. Of course, there is little doubt there, I mean, everyone agrees that the UP FEF-3 4-8-4 is the most handsome and powerful passenger engine...right?

Actually, I agree with just about everything Bruce Smith said. I've used every paint known to the hobby and now I use only Polyscale. I guess once you learn how...

I will add this. As Badger's Greg Konrad said about 15 yrs ago, IF you paint in Florida you are going to pump out some water. Spary booth or not. I have 3 water traps and I will pump out some water. Try doing that with Scale Coat or Floquil. Do it with Polyscale and you just keep going. One more thing. As I told Armand, Polyscale is the most forgiving paint I have ever used.

The value of the filter is high, I thin with 71% alcohol, I place the gun in water if I stop for more than 5 seconds, and I only use new, fresh paint. Old bottles are for hand weathering.

Now, as to the best frt engine, Big Boy of course...

Mike Brock...be nice...


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 24, 2011, at 8:54 AM, Andy Harman wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 23:13:58 -0500, Schuyler Larrabee wrote
Scalecoat II? Or the real stuff?
Both. I prefer Scalecoat II, but some colors are just not
available - although they may
actually be out there if you special order. Few hobby shops stock
a full rack of
Scalecoat anymore....
Andy, that's hardly an issue for those of us (most of us, I'll bet)
whose local hobby shops were never very good and are now non-
existent. Get on the internet and find a large dealer who has a full
stock, or order direct from the manufacturer. I have to do that
regardless of what paint I use, as the nearest hobby shops with
decent stock are 5 hours away, so I might as well use the paint I
like best.

Richard Hendrickson


Andy Harman
 

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:00:38 -0800, Richard Hendrickson wrote
Andy, that's hardly an issue for those of us (most of us, I'll bet)
whose local hobby shops were never very good and are now non-
existent.
My LHS does not stock Scalecoat, but they will order it for me and it gets there quickly
without having to pay shipping. The only problem with that is I have to actually plan
ahead and know what I want instead of impulse buying paint. I do miss being able to
browse such things though.

Andy


Andy Harman
 

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:31:49 -0500, mike brock wrote
I will add this. As Badger's Greg Konrad said about 15 yrs ago, IF you paint
in Florida you are going to pump out some water.
I remember being berated at the time for not "learning how" to use flex paints and that
I needed a tutorial from Konrad. I watched him painting at one of the shows. He was
blowing oxide red all over an O scale boxcar like nobody's business, using the Bic
disposable airbrush. I didn't see anything special about his technique. Oxides in his
paint line usually worked well, basically if you have a good bottle of paint, even with
sloppy technique things will turn out ok.

On the other hand, I saw up close some of the sample locos that GK had been using in his
ads for his paint. When I actually saw the quality of the finish - one of them had
paint peeling off the walkways, the other looked like it had been blasted with Krylon
from a fire hose, rolled in salt, and blasted again, the idea of "learning" anything
quickly vanished.

I've been airbrushing for - let's see - about 38 years. I don't plan to ever try to
teach anybody anything about it. But I think it's pretty insulting to be told to "learn
how" from someone whose paint jobs I wouldn't even try to strip, much less emulate.

And there are plenty of folks who get outstanding results from acrylics. Their methods
generally contradict each other, as my methods contradict others. That's why I don't
ever do painting clinics.

Andy


tyesac@...
 

as the nearest hobby shops with
decent stock are 5 hours away, so I might as well use the paint I
like best.




Richard,

What, no runway out back?

Tom Casey

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Paint




On Jan 24, 2011, at 8:54 AM, Andy Harman wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 23:13:58 -0500, Schuyler Larrabee wrote
Scalecoat II? Or the real stuff?
Both. I prefer Scalecoat II, but some colors are just not
available - although they may
actually be out there if you special order. Few hobby shops stock
a full rack of
Scalecoat anymore....
Andy, that's hardly an issue for those of us (most of us, I'll bet)
whose local hobby shops were never very good and are now non-
existent. Get on the internet and find a large dealer who has a full
stock, or order direct from the manufacturer. I have to do that
regardless of what paint I use, as the nearest hobby shops with
decent stock are 5 hours away, so I might as well use the paint I
like best.

Richard Hendrickson









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]