Bob,
Thank you for all your information. Next step; place an order with my LHS.
Gene Green

Gene Greenwrote:

After reviewing all the pertinent discussion about the new Fox Valley

B&O wagontop box car it appears that at least the first two paint
schemes are legit and were in use before 1950. Sincere thanks to all
who contributed to this conversation.

If I understand what has been posted the first scheme (below) is

possible but would likely have been rare.

B&O Oricinal Scheme (Flat Door) with no capitol dome herald on left

side above reporting marks

FVM 30301
FVM 30302
FVM 30303

This version would have been widespread once the B&O began using it.
B&O 13 Great States (Flat Door)
FVM 30304
FVM 30305
FVM 30306

Here's the link to Fox Valley's B&O wagontop box car on facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150097638299797&set=a.215654069\;
796.1323\07.92694309796&ref=nf

Gene,

All the proposed P&L schemes are essentially correct for the time
periods indicated.

The B&O 13 Great States (flat door) according to Chris Barkan's
designations only last from mid-1945 to mid-1946 and was used about the
time the B&O changed from using their "Freight Car Brown" to their
"Bright Freight Car Red". The FVM indicates the color "Freight Car
Brown". There is photographic evidence that cars lasted a longtime in
this scheme without being repainted. I photographed a M-26d in this
scheme in ~1962.

Sometime after the first group, the Kuhler designed capitol dome emblem
was added to the scheme by placing the emblem in the second panel from
the end high on the side and removing the initials and the line above
them. There is the classic builders photo in the MR article in 1962 of
the M-53 in this scheme. So M-53 were painted in both these schemes as
built. We don't know the exact date the Kuhler emblem was introduced. So
this scheme was used for only a few months and we do not know how many
cars were originally painted this way.

The scheme for the express version class C-16 is also correct. For the
that run passenger trains I assume the B&O express cars appeared on
other railroads.

The late B&O Billboard was introduced after the C&O took control and the
they dropped the "Linking 13 Great States" from the emblem. This scheme
is beyond the cutoff date for this group.

FVM already has plans for a second run and one assumes the other schemes
appropriate for the the era of the STMFC will be offered. FVM states
there are about ten lettering variations available to choose from.

Regards,

Bob Witt

After reviewing all the pertinent discussion about the new Fox Valley B&O wagontop box car it appears that at least the first two paint schemes are legit and were in use before 1950. Sincere thanks to all who contributed to this conversation.

If I understand what has been posted the first scheme (below) is possible but would likely have been rare.
B&O Oricinal Scheme (Flat Door) with no capitol dome herald on left side above reporting marks
FVM 30301
FVM 30302
FVM 30303

This version would have been widespread once the B&O began using it.
B&O 13 Great States (Flat Door)
FVM 30304
FVM 30305
FVM 30306

Here's the link to Fox Valley's B&O wagontop box car on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150097638299797&set=a.215654069796.1323\;07.92694309796&ref=nf

Gene Green

Are these made in China?  
Mark Morgan

I sent a message to Matt at Fox Valley. He confirmed that the model will have a Duryea underframe. He also said that if there's interest he can look into making some parts available. He has no idea whether they will fit other models.

He also said that the undecs might be available as a kit, but if not the floor is removable so it might be useful as a basis for an M-15 kitbash.

I'll go through the list of cars with Duryea underframes to see which ones have available models.

I'm not an expert, though, and I know there were several versions of the Duryea underframes over the years. so it would be helpful to get some additional information about which ones would be similar to the one on the M-53s.

In any event, it sounds like a promising model and I'm looking forward to it.

Randy Hammill
http://newbritainstation.com

Thanks Chuck, Now you see, I said I was lazy and I am currently doing the
Southern war emergency caboose Version-2 by Westerfield so I'm using Floquil
Caboose red right out of the bottle. No need to run down and get a sample.
(Of course we would say git a sample).

I'll have to try the paint pealing quality of grits, I haven't done that
yet.
Regards,
Fenton

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 11:58 AM, <RUTLANDRS@...> wrote:

Fenton,
Keep those grits handy. They make for nice peeling paint, even on
steam era freight cars.
While you're at it, run downtown to the caboose and get a paint sample
so that it can be matched to (?) and then everyone can get the right color.
Chuck Hladik


In a message dated 1/29/2011 10:50:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
srrfan1401@... <srrfan1401%40gmail.com> writes:

Thanks, Bruce I'll move my grits and see what paint colors I have. I
still
have one more Sunshine wagontop and several ACL and C&WC cars to build and
being lazy was hoping there was something straight out of the bottle.
I'm fixin to go up to da workshop and git some modlein dun.
Regards,
Fenton

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...<smithbf%40auburn.edu>>
wrote:

O Fenton Wells asks, referring to prewar B&O colors:

Gentlemen, any idea of which model paints, if any out of the bottle

best

match this " Alkali Resisting Brown" ?

Fenton, y'all (*using the more inclusive southernism, since there are
some ladies out there),

The suggestion was made that Roof Brown was an appropriate color for
this during the M26 project on Virtual Modelers. I used the Poly Scale
version and my reaction was "WOW is it BROWN!". When I do my next B&O
car, I will most likely cut the roof brown with some red, to taste.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@... <srrfan1401%40gmail.com>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 09:31 AM 1/29/2011 -0600, you wrote:

The suggestion was made that Roof Brown was an appropriate color for
this during the M26 project on Virtual Modelers. I used the Poly Scale
version and my reaction was "WOW is it BROWN!". When I do my next B&O
car, I will most likely cut the roof brown with some red, to taste.

The latest batches of Pollyscale roof brown look grayish to me. They don't look like the Pollyscale I was getting 10 years ago, and nothing like classic Floquil roof brown, which I happen to have a small stash of.

Andy

At 09:23 AM 1/29/2011 -0600, you wrote:

Which can even be built with a functioning Duryea underframe! Alas, the
molded on ladder stiles and the lack of the original door have kept me
from buying this kit. Interestingly, the FVM RTR cars will be somewhere
around $20 less expensive than the resin kit...

I have a Sunshine M53 somewhere, but I don't even remember what kind of door and underframe, or if multiple variations were available. I think it was an impulse buy at Naperville one year, probably when first released. I don't have need for a fleet of them. I forgot about Wright Track. So three completely independent resin kits, plus now styrene. And how many different Milwaukee rib sides have been done now? Heck, at least two in styrene plus resin - 2 more? Who says ethnic cars don't sell.

Now about that N&W H-10.

Andy

Thanks, Bruce I'll move my grits and see what paint colors I have. I still
have one more Sunshine wagontop and several ACL and C&WC cars to build and
being lazy was hoping there was something straight out of the bottle.
I'm fixin to go up to da workshop and git some modlein dun.
Regards,
Fenton

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

O Fenton Wells asks, referring to prewar B&O colors:

Gentlemen, any idea of which model paints, if any out of the bottle

best

match this " Alkali Resisting Brown" ?

Fenton, y'all (*using the more inclusive southernism, since there are
some ladies out there),

The suggestion was made that Roof Brown was an appropriate color for
this during the M26 project on Virtual Modelers. I used the Poly Scale
version and my reaction was "WOW is it BROWN!". When I do my next B&O
car, I will most likely cut the roof brown with some red, to taste.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

O Fenton Wells asks, referring to prewar B&O colors:

Gentlemen, any idea of which model paints, if any out of the bottle

best

match this " Alkali Resisting Brown" ?

Fenton, y'all (*using the more inclusive southernism, since there are
some ladies out there),

The suggestion was made that Roof Brown was an appropriate color for
this during the M26 project on Virtual Modelers. I used the Poly Scale
version and my reaction was "WOW is it BROWN!". When I do my next B&O
car, I will most likely cut the roof brown with some red, to taste.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"al_brown03" <abrown@...> 01/29/11 7:38 AM >>>

Wright Trak make a really nice resin kit.
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Which can even be built with a functioning Duryea underframe! Alas, the
molded on ladder stiles and the lack of the original door have kept me
from buying this kit. Interestingly, the FVM RTR cars will be somewhere
around $20 less expensive than the resin kit...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

Gentlemen, any idea of which model paints, if any out of the bottle best
match this " Alkali Resisting Brown" ?

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

On Jan 28, 2011, at 10:07 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

I believe the post-WWII "13 States" cars should be painted oxide red
not
the earlier dark brown. Maybe Ed Hawkins can find the bill of
materials
to verify the paint specifications for the 500 class M-58a built by
AC&F
in 1947 for the B&O.

Bob,
You are correct. According to the paint sample for the M-58A 50' box
cars built by AC&F in 10-47, the cars received Pittsburgh Synthetic
paint (an oxide shade). So the switch from brown to oxide red
occurred sometime between 12-41, when the M-55A/B box cars that
received "Alkali Resisting Brown" were built, and 10-47. This oxide
shade was similar to that used by ACL, CNW, L&N, UP and others during
the postwar years.

A portion of the M-60 and M-61 50' box cars built in 1951 received an
even lighter-brighter shade of oxide red, much like the color Western
Maryland used during the 1950s, while the balance received the same
oxide shade as the M-58A cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jan 28, 2011, at 10:07 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

I believe the post-WWII "13 States" cars should be painted oxide red
not
the earlier dark brown. Maybe Ed Hawkins can find the bill of
materials
to verify the paint specifications for the 500 class M-58a built by
AC&F
in 1947 for the B&O.

Bob,
You are correct. According to the paint sample for the M-58A 50' box
cars built by AC&F in 10-47, the cars received Pittsburgh Synthetic
paint (an oxide shade). So the switch from brown to oxide red
occurred sometime between 12-41, when the M-55A/B box cars that
received "Alkali Resisting Brown" were built, and 10-47. This oxide
shade was similar to that used by ACL, CNW, L&N, UP and others during
the postwar years.

A portion of the M-60 and M-61 50' box cars built in 1951 received an
even lighter-brighter shade of oxide red, much like the color Western
Maryland used during the 1950s, while the balance received the same
oxide shade as the M-58A cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Wright Trak make a really nice resin kit.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Fenton,
Keep those grits handy. They make for nice peeling paint, even on
steam era freight cars.
While you're at it, run downtown to the caboose and get a paint sample
so that it can be matched to (?) and then everyone can get the right color.
Chuck Hladik

To the Group,

What Bruce stated is what I always believed to be the case until about 6
months ago I purchased an Al Armitage print of a as-built M-53 (#381303)
in service still lettered with "NEW-9-37" that does not have the Kuhler
emblem on the left side of the door. So now the early use and placement
of the Kuhler emblem on B&O boxcars is less clear. So based on this
single photo I will have to say the FVM lettering appears correct, but
for what batch of cars and how many remains unknown.

I believe the post-WWII "13 States" cars should be painted oxide red not
the earlier dark brown. Maybe Ed Hawkins can find the bill of materials
to verify the paint specifications for the 500 class M-58a built by AC&F
in 1947 for the B&O.

Regards,

Bob Witt

Bruce Smith replied:

Are you referring to the plain B&O capital dome that is seen on the

left

side of these cars? Yep, it is missing from the artwork! But hey,
that's what decals are for ;^) and at least this baby comes with the
correct flat panel door for those of us who want the original
configuration...

Gene Green wrote:
I immediately pulled out RP CYC #9 to compare FVM

illustrations with the photos in the M53 article. It appears to me

that

the as-delivered scheme is missing a small round emblem to the left of
the door. What am I missing?

At 04:53 PM 1/28/2011 +0000, you wrote:

Apparently Matt at Fox Valley Models has announced a new B&O wagontop boxcar in N and HO scales.

How many M-53s have been done? Sunshine, F&C, who else? This is the first in styrene I think.

Andy

Marty, no I was asking about the plain B&O capital dome in a circle.

Bruce, thanks for confirming that the plain B&O capital dome should be on the cars in the as-delivered scheme.

And Denis, good to know a source of decals is available.

Finally, would the second Fox Valley paint scheme have been in use before 1950? If I understood a caption in RP Cyc 9 correctly, it would have.

Gene Green

Let me remind folks that WrightTRAK has custom decals for these M53's that cover ALL the paintschemes as applied to these cars.


Denis Blake




2011 Central Ohio Prototype Modelers Meet, May 19-21

http://www.facebook.com/pages/manage/#!/pages/Central-Ohio-Prototype-Modelers-Meet/326645470797

Gene,

Are you referring to the plain B&O capital dome that is seen on the left
side of these cars? Yep, it is missing from the artwork! But hey,
that's what decals are for ;^) and at least this baby comes with the
correct flat panel door for those of us who want the original
configuration...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"Gene" <bierglaeser@...> 01/28/11 3:14 PM >>>

Three of the B&O M53 box cars show up on the Landmesser hot box list so
I "need" some. I immediately pulled out RP CYC #9 to compare FVM
illustrations with the photos in the M53 article. It appears to me that
the as-delivered scheme is missing a small round emblem to the left of
the door. What am I missing?
Gene Green



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links