Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas? Pierre

50' version?



No.



SGL



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Pierre
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 6:30 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Athearn Blue Box Gondola





Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas? Pierre








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Pierre Ferland asked:
"Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?"

Not out of the box. This model is one of several examples of Athearn models
designed around tooling of previous models to produce another car type that
doesn't match any prototype (this model, the 50 ft plug door boxcar) or is
only coincidentally close to a prototype (the ribbed side twin).

That being said, it can be kitbashed into a small number of prototypes,
including a DT&I auto frame gon done as the 2009 Cocoa Beach Shake-N-Take
project. Go to the Shake-N-Take group website and search on DT&I for more
details.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shake_N_Take/


Ben Hom

P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the camel's back
that resulted in the founding of this group. BTW, how is the old FCL doing
nowadays?

Pierre Oliver wrote:

Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?

As with their "50-foot" flat car, they seem to have shortened a real car to handle shorter curves. Or something. Thus both the gon and flat can be stretched to 53' 6" (e.g. using another kit) and come much closer to several prototypes. But out of the box, no. Richard Hendrickson years ago did an article on several clever kitbashes of the Athearn gon, such as making the sides straight, adding drop ends, etc. to get closer to some real cars. I think it was in _Prototype Modeler_ but don't recall for sure.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

At 06:43 PM 2/2/2011 -0500, you wrote:

P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the camel's back
that resulted in the founding of this group. BTW, how is the old FCL doing
nowadays?

The last post I have was on 3/25/07. The list simply stopped with no warning. I thought I might have been bumped and tried to re-up, but no response. As far as I know it's gone unless I've just been bumped all this time and didn't know how to get back on.

Andy

On Feb 2, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Pierre Ferland asked:
"Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?"

Not out of the box. This model is one of several examples of
Athearn models
designed around tooling of previous models to produce another car
type that
doesn't match any prototype....

P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the
camel's back
that resulted in the founding of this group.

Ben is correct on both counts. I had it on the authority of the late
Leo Munson, one of Athearn's toolmakers, that the Athearn mill
gondola body was "free-lanced" to fit the underframe and floor weight
of the 50' flat car - which was itself "free-lanced," for that
matter, as was the 40' flat. All of what came to be known as the
Athearn "blue box" models were developed primarily as Athearn's entry
into the "toy train" market as HO scale train sets replaced Lionel
and American Flyer tinplate toy trains. In their day, and in that
market, they were a good cut above the competitive products offered
by Tyco, AHM, etc. but not nearly as prototypically accurate as the
Athearn metal kits that preceded them.

Richard Hendrickson

It would be nice to have a plastic model of a fixed end 52'6" gondola
wouldn't it? Perhaps Dennis will be looking to add this to Accurail's
product line? If so, what prototype would be the best one? I'd love
to see one of the PS-5 gondolas.

The FCL is long kaput. Richard Hosker managed it but the resource came
from a college and I gather they pulled the resources.

I thought the FCL-STMFC-RPMForum rift began with an argument over whether
plastic or wood was best for representing wood on scale models... but
maybe that was just another in a series. :-&#92;

Tim O'Connor

Thank you for the information, but I'd like to know how to kitbash one into a prototype. Any ideas? Pierre

Pierre,

As was noted in an earlier reply, the 2009/10 Shake and Take project
from Prototype Rails was a 40' DT&I car bashed from this car. S-n-T has
its own Yehaw group now at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shake_N_Take/?yguid=108322125

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"Pierre" <pierreferland2010@...> 02/02/11 8:55 PM >>>

Thank you for the information, but I'd like to know how to kitbash one
into a prototype. Any ideas? Pierre

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

It would be nice to have a plastic model of a fixed end 52'6" gondola
wouldn't it? Perhaps Dennis will be looking to add this to Accurail's
product line? If so, what prototype would be the best one? I'd love
to see one of the PS-5 gondolas.

The FCL is long kaput. Richard Hosker managed it but the resource came
from a college and I gather they pulled the resources.

I thought the FCL-STMFC-RPMForum rift began with an argument over

whether

plastic or wood was best for representing wood on scale models... but
maybe that was just another in a series. :-&#92;

Tim O'Connor

Pierre Ferland asked:
"Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?"

Not out of the box. This model is one of several examples of Athearn

models

designed around tooling of previous models to produce another car

type that

doesn't match any prototype (this model, the 50 ft plug door boxcar)

or is

only coincidentally close to a prototype (the ribbed side twin).

That being said, it can be kitbashed into a small number of

prototypes,

including a DT&I auto frame gon done as the 2009 Cocoa Beach

Shake-N-Take

project. Go to the Shake-N-Take group website and search on DT&I for

more

details.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shake_N_Take/


Ben Hom

P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the camel's

back

that resulted in the founding of this group. BTW, how is the old FCL

doing

nowadays?

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Pierre Oliver wrote:

Thank you for the information, but I'd like to know how to kitbash one into a prototype. Any ideas? Pierre

As I mentioned, Richard Hendrickson had a fine article in Prototype Modeler, Sept.-Oct. 1982. If you don't have access to that, I can send you a scan off-line. Or heck, Richard may have some of his free copies still <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Who owns the rights to Prototype Modeler? They might be able to
get some quick cash by licensing to TrainLife.

Tim O'Connor

As a Shake'n'Taker, I will advise also that doing these projects gives you
the motivation to look at kits, blue box or otherwise, as simply
opportunities to create models of cars otherwise unavailable in any form.
It also enables you to understand better the shortcomings of these same raw
kits. For example, the DT&I gon has illustrated to me how I can model an
ERIE gon, which has the same cast frame drop ends, but is 52'-6" IL. Prior
to doing the DT&I model I was a bit mystified about how to accomplish this;
now: piece of cake!



The SnT list has been growing, and I would welcome your membership, Pierre.
The list rules about signing your name, no harassing other members and
criticism of model products but not business practices are the same as here
on STMFC.



Schuyler Larrabee

SnT list owner.



Pierre,

As was noted in an earlier reply, the 2009/10 Shake and Take project
from Prototype Rails was a 40' DT&I car bashed from this car. S-n-T has
its own Yehaw group now at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shake_N_Take/?yguid=108322125

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"Pierre" <pierreferland2010@...

<mailto:pierreferland2010%40hotmail.com> > 02/02/11 8:55 PM >>>
Thank you for the information, but I'd like to know how to kitbash one
into a prototype. Any ideas? Pierre

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , Tim O'Connor
<timboconnor@...> wrote:

It would be nice to have a plastic model of a fixed end 52'6" gondola
wouldn't it? Perhaps Dennis will be looking to add this to Accurail's
product line? If so, what prototype would be the best one? I'd love
to see one of the PS-5 gondolas.

The FCL is long kaput. Richard Hosker managed it but the resource came
from a college and I gather they pulled the resources.

I thought the FCL-STMFC-RPMForum rift began with an argument over

whether

plastic or wood was best for representing wood on scale models... but
maybe that was just another in a series. :-&#92;

Tim O'Connor

Pierre Ferland asked:
"Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?"

Not out of the box. This model is one of several examples of Athearn

models

designed around tooling of previous models to produce another car

type that

doesn't match any prototype (this model, the 50 ft plug door boxcar)

or is

only coincidentally close to a prototype (the ribbed side twin).

That being said, it can be kitbashed into a small number of

prototypes,

including a DT&I auto frame gon done as the 2009 Cocoa Beach

Shake-N-Take

project. Go to the Shake-N-Take group website and search on DT&I for

more

details.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shake_N_Take/


Ben Hom

P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the camel's

back

that resulted in the founding of this group. BTW, how is the old FCL

doing

nowadays?

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








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Anthony Thompson wrote:

As with their "50-foot" flat car, they seem to have shortened a
real car to handle shorter curves. Or something. Thus both the gon and
flat can be stretched to 53' 6" (e.g. using another kit) and come much
closer to several prototypes. But out of the box, no.

Tony,

FWIW, shorter curves probably was not the reason because in the same
time period Revell made both a flat car and a gondola very close to the
correct prototype lengths of 53'-6" and 52'-6", respectively. These
cars, I believe, could negotiate the 15" curves of Atlas snap track.
Until better models arrived the old Revell/Con-Cor gondola was all we
had for kit-bashing gons.

Bob Witt

When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the 50-foot
flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in Anaheim, CA)
said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the original shot Blue
Box. He said that Irv spent more on box than the plastic inside it. Perhaps a
little over simplistic but it makes sense.

Greg




Bob Witt responds:




Anthony Thompson wrote:

As with their "50-foot" flat car, they seem to have shortened a real car

to handle shorter curves. Or something. Thus both the gon and flat can be
stretched to 53' 6" (e.g. using another kit) and come much closer to
several prototypes. But out of the box, no.

Tony,

FWIW, shorter curves probably was not the reason because in the same
time period Revell made both a flat car and a gondola very close to the
correct prototype lengths of 53'-6" and 52'-6", respectively. These
cars, I believe, could negotiate the 15" curves of Atlas snap track.
Until better models arrived the old Revell/Con-Cor gondola was all we
had for kit-bashing gons.

Bob Witt





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greg Martin wrote:

When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the 50-foot flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in Anaheim, CA) said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the original shot Blue Box. Perhaps a little over simplistic but it makes sense.

It may appear to make sense but there are indications it's just a legend.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:

When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the
50-foot flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in
Anaheim, CA) said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the
original shot Blue Box. Perhaps a little over simplistic but it
makes sense.

It may appear to make sense but there are indications it's just
a legend.

Tony Thompson

I would suspect it was to fit the bodies into an existing four slide mold base, thus avoiding the expense of a new mold base. I've been told that the Details West line of car kits were also built to fit this mold base, and if you'll recall, the DW double plug door boxcar was also too short.

Dennis

At 01:00 PM 2/5/2011 -0500, you wrote:

When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the 50-foot
flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in Anaheim, CA)
said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the original shot Blue
Box. He said that Irv spent more on box than the plastic inside it. Perhaps a
little over simplistic but it makes sense.

Except they didn't fit in the box. The 50' box cars and the 50' gondola had to be jammed into the box diagonally which put a lot of pressure on the couplers. Some of the longer cars had the box extended and it still wasn't long enough to accommodate the finished model.

Nowadays I keep two-piece boxes like Branchline's and use them for parts and project trays. I pretty much throw away all sleeve and clamshell boxes.

Andy

At 01:00 PM 2/5/2011 -0500, you wrote:

When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the 50-foot
flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in Anaheim, CA)
said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the original shot Blue
Box. He said that Irv spent more on box than the plastic inside
it. Perhaps a
little over simplistic but it makes sense.

Except they didn't fit in the box. The 50' box cars and the 50' gondola
had to be jammed into the box diagonally which put a lot of pressure on the
couplers. Some of the longer cars had the box extended and it still wasn't
long enough to accommodate the finished model.

Nowadays I keep two-piece boxes like Branchline's and use them for parts
and project trays. I pretty much throw away all sleeve and clamshell boxes.

Andy

Andy, you weren't supposed to put the car back in the box after you'd
mounted the couplers! You were supposed to put it on the 4x8 and throw the
box away.

SGL





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Revell model kits from roughly this same era, their airplane models for example, are referred to as "Box Scale" by collector of these kits.

Bill Welch