Date
1 - 19 of 19
OK, What Kind of Truck is This?
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Allen Cain <allencain@...>
Pure speculation from an old mechanical engineer but the cylinders look a
lot like what you see on the semi-trailers on the highways. This, combined with the absence of springs leads me to speculate that these are pneumatic shock absorbers. If you look closely, there appears to be a secondary frame behind the side frame which supports the bolster(?). So the load goes down through the bolster thru the interior frame passing through the shock absorbers and then into the visible side frames and to the wheels. Again, just speculation. Allen Cain |
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spsalso
The journal box covers look to me to read:
"Gould Depew NY" Ed Edward Sutorik |
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I didn't say it was a GOOD design. :-)
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Tim Yeah, Tim, but I still don't see anything that looks like a "steering arm", or a "steering arm center connection". What I do see are stops on the bolster that would lead me to believe it is some sort of swing motion truck, after all, the traditional swing motion trucks rely on swing links, under tension, to do their job. We can't see what the casting under the bolster actually does; with enough side play, the cable would act as swing links, although I don't see how they would lift the weight of the car, which is required to bring the truck back to equilibrium. |
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
What's wrong with informed speculation so long as it is labeled as such?
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KL ----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson As to the function of those cylindrical housings above the journal boxes, I can only speculate - so I won't. |
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soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Yeah, Tim, but I still don't see anything that looks like a "steering arm", or a "steering arm center connection". What I do see are stops on the bolster that would lead me to believe it is some sort of swing motion truck, after all, the traditional swing motion trucks rely on swing links, under tension, to do their job. We can't see what the casting under the bolster actually does; with enough side play, the cable would act as swing links, although I don't see how they would lift the weight of the car, which is required to bring the truck back to equilibrium. Then again, since these were apparently never commercialized, maybe the inventor missed that part, too. Dennis |
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Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
If this were some sort of radial truck using something inside the
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journals, though, they would want to document THAT, as opposed to what they DID document. They were quite careful to document to obvious housings on the ends of the sideframes, the cable, etc. -- Thanks! Brian Paul Ehni From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:07:41 -0500 To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Subject: [STMFC] Re: OK, What Kind of Truck is This? Dennis Hate to rain on YOUR parade, but as this document shows, the amount of deflection of the axle bearings is quite small. In this case, 3/16" using "resilient pads". Something like that could easily fit inside those integral cast boxes. http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/trnews/rpo/rpo.trn134.pdf Tim O'Connor Hate to rain on your parade, but I don't see any mechanism for changing |
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Dennis
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Hate to rain on YOUR parade, but as this document shows, the amount of deflection of the axle bearings is quite small. In this case, 3/16" using "resilient pads". Something like that could easily fit inside those integral cast boxes. http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/trnews/rpo/rpo.trn134.pdf Tim O'Connor Hate to rain on your parade, but I don't see any mechanism for changing the distance between the axle bearings, which would be a requirement to align the axles radial to the curve. The bearings seem to be fixed in boxes cast integral with each sideframe. All I see is a way to transmit the load to some sort of encased springs, using a tension member, cable, no less. I doubt the AAR ever gave this design its blessing for interchange service. I'm rather surprised it even made it past the drawing stage, but some inventors are stubborn. |
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Richard Orr <SUVCWORR@...>
That was my take on it as well. There is a large circular object under each
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end of the bolster with a "band" of some substance passing beneath and connecting to the cylinders. It is almost as if they were trying to use heavy duty rubber bands in place of the springs. Rich Orr -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Brian Paul Ehni Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 12:12 PM To: STMFC List Subject: Re: [STMFC] OK, What Kind of Truck is This? If you look closely at the left side of the truck, there appears to be a bar running thru the U section, continuing under the center of the sideframe, thence to the other cylinder. In the absence of obvious springs, and what looks to be rubber absorbers in those cylinders, I think they act as the springs for the truck. -- Thanks! Brian Paul Ehni From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 08:49:18 -0800 To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Subject: Re: [STMFC] OK, What Kind of Truck is This? On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Richard Wilkens wrote: From the Cornell University collection:An experimental truck of some sort, Richard, as I've never seen evidence of a truck of this design in revenue service. And the dating is wildly incorrect, as both the side frames and bolster are steel castings, technology that wasn't developed until decades after 1870. Cast steel U-section side frames weren't introduced until the 1920s. As to the function of those cylindrical housings above the journal boxes, I can only speculate - so I won't. Richard Hendrickson ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Malcolm H. Houck
I doubt the AAR ever gave this design its blessing for interchange
service. I'm rather surprised it even made it past the drawing stage, but some inventors are stubborn. Dennis Not only did DeForrest "Pat" Diver live on Linden Avenue in Middletown, New York, and not only was he an accomplished photographer, but he ran a commercial photography business after his retirement from the "right side" ca. 1940. The photos of this "experimental" truck appear to have taken at the doors of the NYO&W shops, off Wisner Ave., in Middletown. I might hazard a guess that these images were part of a commission undertaken on behalf of the inventor or builder. As the O&W descended into the abyss of Bankruptcy every means and effort was employed to corner some revenue. One income stream that was tried was contract work for other rail lines or other rail related enterprises. The immense and well equipped shops provided heavy "Class" repairs for locally housed Erie engines, and then for the NYS&W after it became independent from the Erie. Short line Middletown & Uionville regularly sent its engines to the nearby Middletown Shops of the O&W for heavy repair work and heavy Class overhauls. For its own purposes the O&W undertook heavy repairs and major rebuilds to reboiler 55 or more of its ca. 1900 - 1910 acquired engines for superheated operation. The NYO&W worked with the firm of Motor Terminals Inc. to develop COFC containers and hardware ca. 1937 for loading both demountable merchandise and insulated fluid milk containers (the latter being employed by Muller Dairies). With a complete foundry, heat treating plant and fully equipped heavy machine shop I would hazard a further guess that this experimental truck was produced at the O&W shops as a part of a contract with the original inventor. It is not a coincidence that Pat Diver photo images have shown up on the Cornell University site inasmuch as DeForrest "Pat" Diver's grandson is affiliated with the Cornell library system, and Cornell was a repository of first instance for many, many historic images produced by the elder Mr. Diver. Mal Houck |
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soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Tim, Hate to rain on your parade, but I don't see any mechanism for changing the distance between the axle bearings, which would be a requirement to align the axles radial to the curve. The bearings seem to be fixed in boxes cast integral with each sideframe. All I see is a way to transmit the load to some sort of encased springs, using a tension member, cable, no less. I doubt the AAR ever gave this design its blessing for interchange service. I'm rather surprised it even made it past the drawing stage, but some inventors are stubborn. Dennis |
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Yeah, well, I got beat up for saying "radial rivet seams" instead
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of "circumferential seams" so I'm not taking any chances anymore... Tim O' Um Tim, your sentence right after (Don't ask me why they call them radial.) is WHY they are called radial |
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Um Tim, your sentence right after (Don't ask me why they call them radial.) is WHY they are called radial
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Brian J Carlson P.E. Who prefers to design radial curved girder bridges vs, non-radial ones. --- On Tue, 2/8/11, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> Subject: [STMFC] Re: OK, What Kind of Truck is This? To: STMFC@... Date: Tuesday, February 8, 2011, 2:06 PM I agree with Bill -- as soon as I saw it, I thought this probably is a "steering" or "radial" truck. (Don't ask me why they call them radial.) The idea is that the axle at all times is kept 90 degrees to the rail, which eliminates sliding on the rail that is responsible for all the squealing we're used to hearing on curves. Tim O'Connor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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I agree with Bill -- as soon as I saw it, I thought this probably
is a "steering" or "radial" truck. (Don't ask me why they call them radial.) The idea is that the axle at all times is kept 90 degrees to the rail, which eliminates sliding on the rail that is responsible for all the squealing we're used to hearing on curves. Tim O'Connor ----------------------------------------- As for the truck, looking at the other photos it seems that there is some sort of cable system to control sideframe pivot. I seem to recall seeing these photos in print somewhere.... Bill Schneider |
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soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "Bill Schneider" <bschneider424@...> wrote:
Richard, The location in the collection materials is given as, "1948/Box 3/Folder 79/18". 1948 seems plausible. Bill, If you look in the middle photo you cite, you can see the cable, and the last photo makes it pretty obvious that the cable runs under the central casting that the bolster bears upon, then up to the other spring housing, although we can't tell if the enclosed springs are steel or rubber. Dennis |
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William Keene <wakeene@...>
Hello Group,
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There are a couple of more photos of this truck in the set of photos on the Flickr site. One of these is a detail photo of one end of the truck frame. In it one can see what looks to be a cable that appears to be connected to some type of springing media -- perhaps rubber, perhaps an air bladder. This cable then extends the length of the truck, passing under a casting attached to the bolster, then up to the opposite upper corner and its springing media. Overall, an interesting truck. Cheers, Bill Keene Irvine, CA On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:12 AM, Brian Paul Ehni wrote:
If you look closely at the left side of the truck, there appears to be a |
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Bill Schneider
There are a number of photos of this truck in the Diver collection, including
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cornelluniversitylibrary/3739524144/in/set-72157621743681242/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/cornelluniversitylibrary/3738733693/in/set-72157621743681242/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/cornelluniversitylibrary/3739532930/in/set-72157621743681242/ Frist, as Richard H. points out, the dates are misleading. They refer to the lifespan of the photographer, DeForest Diver. Diver was an engineer on the O&W and also an avid photographer. He also seems to have a bit of inventor in him, holding a patent (http://nyow.org/diver.html) As for the truck, looking at the other photos it seems that there is some sort of cable system to control sideframe pivot. I seem to recall seeing these photos in print somewhere.... Bill Schneider From: Richard Hendrickson Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:49 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] OK, What Kind of Truck is This? On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Richard Wilkens wrote: From the Cornell University collection:An experimental truck of some sort, Richard, as I've never seen evidence of a truck of this design in revenue service. And the dating is wildly incorrect, as both the side frames and bolster are steel castings, technology that wasn't developed until decades after 1870. Cast steel U-section side frames weren't introduced until the 1920s. As to the function of those cylindrical housings above the journal boxes, I can only speculate - so I won't. Richard Hendrickson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
If you look closely at the left side of the truck, there appears to be a
bar running thru the U section, continuing under the center of the sideframe, thence to the other cylinder. In the absence of obvious springs, and what looks to be rubber absorbers in those cylinders, I think they act as the springs for the truck. -- Thanks! Brian Paul Ehni From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 08:49:18 -0800 To: STMFC List <STMFC@...> Subject: Re: [STMFC] OK, What Kind of Truck is This? On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Richard Wilkens wrote: From the Cornell University collection:An experimental truck of some sort, Richard, as I've never seen evidence of a truck of this design in revenue service. And the dating is wildly incorrect, as both the side frames and bolster are steel castings, technology that wasn't developed until decades after 1870. Cast steel U-section side frames weren't introduced until the 1920s. As to the function of those cylindrical housings above the journal boxes, I can only speculate - so I won't. Richard Hendrickson |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Richard Wilkens wrote:
From the Cornell University collection:An experimental truck of some sort, Richard, as I've never seen evidence of a truck of this design in revenue service. And the dating is wildly incorrect, as both the side frames and bolster are steel castings, technology that wasn't developed until decades after 1870. Cast steel U-section side frames weren't introduced until the 1920s. As to the function of those cylindrical housings above the journal boxes, I can only speculate - so I won't. Richard Hendrickson |
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Richard Wilkens <railsnw@...>
From the Cornell University collection:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cornelluniversitylibrary/3739520322/in/set-72157621743681242/ Richard Wilkens |
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