LRX Image...


mforsyth127
 

Group,

A few days ago, a thread discussed the DL&W's "LRX" reporting marks. Took me some time, but I just got an image of LRX 7218 scanned, and posted to my website. I would have attempted to load it to my photo folder on STMFC, but it could take months (if not longer) to get that image approved! ;>)

This was given to me by Chuck Yungkurth, shows LRX 7218 in December of 1947. Shot was probably taken in the Binghamton, NY or Scranton PA area, and might be the work of the late Clarence Tharp. Here's a link for those interested.

http://mattforsyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/LRX-7218-December-1947.jpg

Thanks,


Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division
Erie Jefferson Division
in "O" Scale, Summer 1952

http://mattforsyth.com/


MDelvec952
 

Glad you posted this image, Matt. I have a print of it, too.

The DL&W added truss rods to some of this batch of reefers to stiffen the sills, and this is clearly seen in the photo. In this era, many of these cars were yellow but some were still orange, which is tough to tell in this image.

....Mike Del Vecchio

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew <mforsyth127@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 10:54 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image...




Group,

A few days ago, a thread discussed the DL&W's "LRX" reporting marks. Took me some time, but I just got an image of LRX 7218 scanned, and posted to my website. I would have attempted to load it to my photo folder on STMFC, but it could take months (if not longer) to get that image approved! ;>)

This was given to me by Chuck Yungkurth, shows LRX 7218 in December of 1947. Shot was probably taken in the Binghamton, NY or Scranton PA area, and might be the work of the late Clarence Tharp. Here's a link for those interested.

http://mattforsyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/LRX-7218-December-1947.jpg

Thanks,

Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division
Erie Jefferson Division
in "O" Scale, Summer 1952

http://mattforsyth.com/








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, MDelvec952@... wrote:

The DL&W added truss rods to some of this batch of reefers to
stiffen the sills, and this is clearly seen in the photo
Plausible but untrue, Mike. The cars were built by MDT at a time
when both MDT reefers and New York Central box cars were equipped
with shallow steel center sills to absorb draft and buff forces and
two truss rods under the center sills to support the center of the
car. I have several photos, including builder's shots, of cars with
this odd combination of steel center sills and truss rods.

Richard Hendrickson


mforsyth127
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Feb 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, MDelvec952@... wrote:

The DL&W added truss rods to some of this batch of reefers to
stiffen the sills, and this is clearly seen in the photo
Plausible but untrue, Mike. The cars were built by MDT at a time
when both MDT reefers and New York Central box cars were equipped
with shallow steel center sills to absorb draft and buff forces and
two truss rods under the center sills to support the center of the
car. I have several photos, including builder's shots, of cars with
this odd combination of steel center sills and truss rods.

Richard,

I might be mistaken, but LRX 7218 is one of a group of original DL&W reefers, 7000-7299, built ACF, 1925. They were white with black hardware when built, lettered DL&W, and did NOT sport truss rods.

It was not until they were later transfered to MDT that they were lettered LRX, and the truss rods were applied some time thereafter.

Matt Forsyth (former DL&W modeler)


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 14, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Matthew wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Feb 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, MDelvec952@... wrote:

The DL&W added truss rods to some of this batch of reefers to
stiffen the sills, and this is clearly seen in the photo
Plausible but untrue, Mike. The cars were built by MDT at a time
when both MDT reefers and New York Central box cars were equipped
with shallow steel center sills to absorb draft and buff forces and
two truss rods under the center sills to support the center of the
car. I have several photos, including builder's shots, of cars with
this odd combination of steel center sills and truss rods.

Richard,

I might be mistaken, but LRX 7218 is one of a group of original
DL&W reefers, 7000-7299, built ACF, 1925. They were white with
black hardware when built, lettered DL&W, and did NOT sport truss
rods.

It was not until they were later transfered to MDT that they were
lettered LRX, and the truss rods were applied some time thereafter.
Matt, I lay no claim to be an expert on the DL&W, even less on their
reefers, but I based that statement on the fragmentary information I
have plus the photographic evidence. I have an in-service photo of
DL&W reefer 7026 which, though no built date is visible, has all the
distinctive features of a mid-'20s AC&F wood sheathed reefer, among
them a 40-ton-USRA-style deep fishbelly center sill. I have another
photo of LRX 7218, and it is a car of quite different design with a
shallow straight steel center sill and a pair of truss rods under the
center sill which appear to be part of the original underframe
design, as the center sill would have had insufficient vertical
stiffness without them. Truss rods would, of course, have been
unnecessary on the AC&F cars. So the 7000-7299 series appears to
have consisted of cars of at least two different designs.


Richard Hendrickson


mforsyth127
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:


Matt, I lay no claim to be an expert on the DL&W, even less on their
reefers, but I based that statement on the fragmentary information I
have plus the photographic evidence. I have an in-service photo of
DL&W reefer 7026 which, though no built date is visible, has all the
distinctive features of a mid-'20s AC&F wood sheathed reefer, among
them a 40-ton-USRA-style deep fishbelly center sill. I have another
photo of LRX 7218, and it is a car of quite different design with a
shallow straight steel center sill and a pair of truss rods under the
center sill which appear to be part of the original underframe
design, as the center sill would have had insufficient vertical
stiffness without them. Truss rods would, of course, have been
unnecessary on the AC&F cars. So the 7000-7299 series appears to
have consisted of cars of at least two different designs.
Richard,

I suppose that anything is possible in the composition of the LRX fleet, especially after transferring the cars to MDT, but here's a builder's shot of DL&W #7000, the flagship (which is in the public domain).

http://mattforsyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/DLW-7000.jpg

It does not have a fishbelly center sill, but rather is straight, and at least to my eye, looks to be of the exact same construction of that of car #7218, that I posted before. If you look closely at #7000 you, can also read the ACF builders and repack data.

Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division
Erie Jefferson Division
In "O" SCale, summer, 1952

http://mattforsyth.com?


Tim O'Connor
 

I have several photos, including builder's shots, of cars with
this odd combination of steel center sills and truss rods.
Richard Hendrickson

I'm confused Richard -- I thought that ALL truss rod equipped
cars from the 1920's onwards had steel center sills, since wooden
center sills were banned from interchange.

Or did you mean to say that the use of only TWO truss rods is
the unusual feature of the LRX/MDT cars?

Tim O'Connor


ROGER HINMAN
 

The MDT disposition records show they did sell DL&W a few of the older 40 foot cars with the Bettendorf underframe during the war,probably for end of life ice service. Its plausible these cars had filled in some time with the LRX reporting marks but I have no data indicating it. I'd have to check the ORERs and see exactly how many of the original ACF were returned in the late 40s. If it was less than the number they started with, the lease may have required filling in the holes with available older cars.

Roger Hinman

On Feb 14, 2011, at 4:57 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Feb 14, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Matthew wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Feb 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, MDelvec952@... wrote:

The DL&W added truss rods to some of this batch of reefers to
stiffen the sills, and this is clearly seen in the photo
Plausible but untrue, Mike. The cars were built by MDT at a time
when both MDT reefers and New York Central box cars were equipped
with shallow steel center sills to absorb draft and buff forces and
two truss rods under the center sills to support the center of the
car. I have several photos, including builder's shots, of cars with
this odd combination of steel center sills and truss rods.

Richard,

I might be mistaken, but LRX 7218 is one of a group of original
DL&W reefers, 7000-7299, built ACF, 1925. They were white with
black hardware when built, lettered DL&W, and did NOT sport truss
rods.

It was not until they were later transfered to MDT that they were
lettered LRX, and the truss rods were applied some time thereafter.
Matt, I lay no claim to be an expert on the DL&W, even less on their
reefers, but I based that statement on the fragmentary information I
have plus the photographic evidence. I have an in-service photo of
DL&W reefer 7026 which, though no built date is visible, has all the
distinctive features of a mid-'20s AC&F wood sheathed reefer, among
them a 40-ton-USRA-style deep fishbelly center sill. I have another
photo of LRX 7218, and it is a car of quite different design with a
shallow straight steel center sill and a pair of truss rods under the
center sill which appear to be part of the original underframe
design, as the center sill would have had insufficient vertical
stiffness without them. Truss rods would, of course, have been
unnecessary on the AC&F cars. So the 7000-7299 series appears to
have consisted of cars of at least two different designs.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 14, 2011, at 2:20 PM, Matthew wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Matt, I lay no claim to be an expert on the DL&W, even less on their
reefers, but I based that statement on the fragmentary information I
have plus the photographic evidence. I have an in-service photo of
DL&W reefer 7026 which, though no built date is visible, has all the
distinctive features of a mid-'20s AC&F wood sheathed reefer, among
them a 40-ton-USRA-style deep fishbelly center sill. I have another
photo of LRX 7218, and it is a car of quite different design with a
shallow straight steel center sill and a pair of truss rods under the
center sill which appear to be part of the original underframe
design, as the center sill would have had insufficient vertical
stiffness without them. Truss rods would, of course, have been
unnecessary on the AC&F cars. So the 7000-7299 series appears to
have consisted of cars of at least two different designs.
Richard,

I suppose that anything is possible in the composition of the LRX
fleet, especially after transferring the cars to MDT, but here's a
builder's shot of DL&W #7000, the flagship (which is in the public
domain).

http://mattforsyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/DLW-7000.jpg

It does not have a fishbelly center sill, but rather is straight,
and at least to my eye, looks to be of the exact same construction
of that of car #7218, that I posted before. If you look closely at
#7000 you, can also read the ACF builders and repack data.
Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design,
also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center
sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically
lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have
needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this
confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert.

Richard Hendrickson


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 14, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

I have several photos, including builder's shots, of cars with
this odd combination of steel center sills and truss rods.
Richard Hendrickson
I'm confused Richard -- I thought that ALL truss rod equipped
cars from the 1920's onwards had steel center sills, since wooden
center sills were banned from interchange.
No you're not, Tim. that is correct.

Or did you mean to say that the use of only TWO truss rods is
the unusual feature of the LRX/MDT cars?
Exactly. The two truss rods were directly under, or just on either
side of, the center sill. There were no other truss rods, and the
side sills, though concealed, were apparently conventional steel
angles or channels.

Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Exactly. The two truss rods were directly under, or just on either side of, the center sill. There were no other truss rods, and the
side sills, though concealed, were apparently conventional steel angles or channels.
By the time of the 1932 ARA design, it had become evident that "side sills" played little role in structural stiffness or strength of a steel car, and they became vestigial. Center sills likewise became much more modest sections, mainly because of the large contribution of the side sheets. But even in a 1920s car without steel sheathing, deep fishbellies like the USRA underframe were overdesigned, as later analysis and tests showed. The truss rods may or may not have been really needed in cars like the LRX ones we're talking about, but no doubt they gave a sensation of comfort to old-school mechanical designers. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


MDelvec952
 

Lackawanna's big reefers from ACF were distinctive for having the straight center sill, versus the fishbelly center sill common on ACF reefers of that era.

I have some photos of these in service in the 1930s, '40s and '50s. All of the 1930s in-service photos show cars with no truss rods, including the car numbered LRX 1939 for display at the New York World's Fair and the LRX 7268 from the 1940 World's Fair (7268 is notable as the only one with an Ajax hand brake). Only photos from the 1950s show cars with truss rods. The cars with truss rods all have KV (DL&W's Keyser Valley Shops near Scranton) shop marks, which is consistent with local railroaders who claimed that Keyser Valley added the truss rods.

I have DL&W general arrangement drawings for these cars dated 1944 and 1952, and neither mentions the truss rods though one of the photos is dated 1951.

The three cars pictured during the 1950s were empty when the photo was taken, though one car is stenciled to be returned to the Nickel Plate Road at Cleveland. That car has a reweigh date KV 4-40, same as the World's Fair car. Other reweigh dates are earlier than the 1950s. The addition of truss rods should require the car to be reweighed, but it's odd that the 1944 or 1952 books don't mention the truss rods though they mention so many other less significant components, modifications, etc.

If a concrete reason for the addition off truss rods surfaces, I'd love to hear it. The downgrading of reefers on the DL&W was to use them in ice service ,which is more dense than produce. But I have seen writings and waybills that discuss bananas and potatoes as common lading, the latter moved in the winter with heater pots in the ice bunkers. It's been my hope to model one or two one day.

Mike Del Vecchio

In a message dated 02/14/11 20:56:43 Eastern Standard Time, rhendrickson@... writes:

Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design,
also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center
sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically
lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have
needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this
confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert.

Richard Hendrickson


drgwrail
 

I am positive I have seen a drawing of a LRX car with the two center truss rods
in a publication such as Railway Mech Engr, Railway Gazette, etc.  But have
never been able to find it again.  There was a cross

section that showed a casting at the center beam where the roads supported the
center beam.

This was a complete drawing, not an article about modifying the cars. Keeping
searching for it. The mystery continues!

For what it is worth, I was a pretty consistent Lackawanna "train watcher" from
about 1938 through WWII and don't ever recall seeing LRX or DL&W
refrigerators in trains except those repainted red and ice in the DL&W's huge
ice business. I think the road's need for refrigerator cars ended aroung 1940. 
But I do remember the yellow reefer that waas displayed at the Scranton depot
along with the 4-6-4, a covered happer, and a caboose before going to the "39
World's Fair.

Chuck Yungkurth


Chuck Y
Boulder Co




________________________________
From: MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 8:55:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image...

 

Lackawanna's big reefers from ACF were distinctive for having the straight
center sill, versus the fishbelly center sill common on ACF reefers of that era.

I have some photos of these in service in the 1930s, '40s and '50s. All of the
1930s in-service photos show cars with no truss rods, including the car numbered
LRX 1939 for display at the New York World's Fair and the LRX 7268 from the 1940
World's Fair (7268 is notable as the only one with an Ajax hand brake). Only
photos from the 1950s show cars with truss rods. The cars with truss rods all
have KV (DL&W's Keyser Valley Shops near Scranton) shop marks, which is
consistent with local railroaders who claimed that Keyser Valley added the truss
rods.

I have DL&W general arrangement drawings for these cars dated 1944 and 1952, and
neither mentions the truss rods though one of the photos is dated 1951.

The three cars pictured during the 1950s were empty when the photo was taken,
though one car is stenciled to be returned to the Nickel Plate Road at
Cleveland. That car has a reweigh date KV 4-40, same as the World's Fair car.
Other reweigh dates are earlier than the 1950s. The addition of truss rods
should require the car to be reweighed, but it's odd that the 1944 or 1952 books
don't mention the truss rods though they mention so many other less significant
components, modifications, etc.

If a concrete reason for the addition off truss rods surfaces, I'd love to hear
it. The downgrading of reefers on the DL&W was to use them in ice service ,which
is more dense than produce. But I have seen writings and waybills that discuss
bananas and potatoes as common lading, the latter moved in the winter with
heater pots in the ice bunkers. It's been my hope to model one or two one day.

Mike Del Vecchio

In a message dated 02/14/11 20:56:43 Eastern Standard Time,
rhendrickson@... writes:

Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design,
also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center
sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically
lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have
needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this
confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL


A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

There was a DL&W reefer 7030 on train # 9 in Alburgh,Vt on 12/8/1950.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Charles R Yungkurth
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image...



I am positive I have seen a drawing of a LRX car with the two center truss rods
in a publication such as Railway Mech Engr, Railway Gazette, etc. But have
never been able to find it again. There was a cross

section that showed a casting at the center beam where the roads supported the
center beam.

This was a complete drawing, not an article about modifying the cars. Keeping
searching for it. The mystery continues!

For what it is worth, I was a pretty consistent Lackawanna "train watcher" from
about 1938 through WWII and don't ever recall seeing LRX or DL&W
refrigerators in trains except those repainted red and ice in the DL&W's huge
ice business. I think the road's need for refrigerator cars ended aroung 1940.
But I do remember the yellow reefer that waas displayed at the Scranton depot
along with the 4-6-4, a covered happer, and a caboose before going to the "39
World's Fair.

Chuck Yungkurth

Chuck Y
Boulder Co

________________________________
From: MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 8:55:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image...



Lackawanna's big reefers from ACF were distinctive for having the straight
center sill, versus the fishbelly center sill common on ACF reefers of that era.

I have some photos of these in service in the 1930s, '40s and '50s. All of the
1930s in-service photos show cars with no truss rods, including the car numbered
LRX 1939 for display at the New York World's Fair and the LRX 7268 from the 1940
World's Fair (7268 is notable as the only one with an Ajax hand brake). Only
photos from the 1950s show cars with truss rods. The cars with truss rods all
have KV (DL&W's Keyser Valley Shops near Scranton) shop marks, which is
consistent with local railroaders who claimed that Keyser Valley added the truss
rods.

I have DL&W general arrangement drawings for these cars dated 1944 and 1952, and
neither mentions the truss rods though one of the photos is dated 1951.

The three cars pictured during the 1950s were empty when the photo was taken,
though one car is stenciled to be returned to the Nickel Plate Road at
Cleveland. That car has a reweigh date KV 4-40, same as the World's Fair car.
Other reweigh dates are earlier than the 1950s. The addition of truss rods
should require the car to be reweighed, but it's odd that the 1944 or 1952 books
don't mention the truss rods though they mention so many other less significant
components, modifications, etc.

If a concrete reason for the addition off truss rods surfaces, I'd love to hear
it. The downgrading of reefers on the DL&W was to use them in ice service ,which
is more dense than produce. But I have seen writings and waybills that discuss
bananas and potatoes as common lading, the latter moved in the winter with
heater pots in the ice bunkers. It's been my hope to model one or two one day.

Mike Del Vecchio

In a message dated 02/14/11 20:56:43 Eastern Standard Time,
rhendrickson@... writes:

Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design,
also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center
sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically
lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have
needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this
confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL








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ROGER HINMAN
 

I got a headache thinking about why these cars would have truss rods. If these were the older MDT cars with the Bettendorf center sill, those cars had Z bar side sills and if a repair were required in the 30s to the center sill, there would be no reason not just to put a standard center sill in its place or make a splice per approved methods. No truss roads would've been required since they are normally used for cars with cars with all wood sills. Thanks to Matt's posting the builder's of the ACF 1925 car confirming it has a straight center sill. The drawings for this car are in the 1928 Car Cyclopedia and they confirm not only the straight center sill but the use of a steel angle side sill. There's also an article on this car in the Jan 26th, 1926 Railway Review written by P Alquist, MCB of the DL&W.

I dug out my file (the ACF car was included in my miscellaneous cars chapter in the book) and I have a shot of DL&W 7026 from Bob's Phtos with the truss rod repair(which reminds me this discussion came up before somewhere). It looks like the reweigh data says KV 8-32, which would indicate this repair/modification was done prior to the car being stencilled for LRX. I also have a xerox someone sent me of LRX07134 which was featured in an O Scale railroading article in the June 1987 issue by Eric Brunger. The car appears to be as built but xerox quality is poor.

This is one of those "is what it is" repairs that probably didn't follow any guidelines. I'm starting to like Matt's proposition that this was a repair to one of the ACF cars. There was a photo back in the Jun 1973 RMC of DL&W 6756 which was one the ex MDT Bettendorf underframe cars in DLW ice service. It cleary has the has the unique Bettendorf center sill, the bolster attach as well as Bettendorf trucks so its unlikely this car was the basis for the repair The posted photo of the LRX car was a bit fuzzy, was it possible to read where the repair/last reweigh was done????

Rpger Hinman

ps
another photo I've seen and can't locate is of car floats in New York harbor unloading a banana boat. One float is MDT cars and the other is a mix of LRX and MDT cars so I presume that float was going tot he DL&W. Keith Sirman sells shots of the LRX car displayed at the World's Fair in 1939.

On Feb 15, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Charles R Yungkurth wrote:

I am positive I have seen a drawing of a LRX car with the two center truss rods
in a publication such as Railway Mech Engr, Railway Gazette, etc. But have
never been able to find it again. There was a cross

section that showed a casting at the center beam where the roads supported the
center beam.

This was a complete drawing, not an article about modifying the cars. Keeping
searching for it. The mystery continues!

For what it is worth, I was a pretty consistent Lackawanna "train watcher" from
about 1938 through WWII and don't ever recall seeing LRX or DL&W
refrigerators in trains except those repainted red and ice in the DL&W's huge
ice business. I think the road's need for refrigerator cars ended aroung 1940.
But I do remember the yellow reefer that waas displayed at the Scranton depot
along with the 4-6-4, a covered happer, and a caboose before going to the "39
World's Fair.

Chuck Yungkurth

Chuck Y
Boulder Co

________________________________
From: MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 8:55:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image...



Lackawanna's big reefers from ACF were distinctive for having the straight
center sill, versus the fishbelly center sill common on ACF reefers of that era.

I have some photos of these in service in the 1930s, '40s and '50s. All of the
1930s in-service photos show cars with no truss rods, including the car numbered
LRX 1939 for display at the New York World's Fair and the LRX 7268 from the 1940
World's Fair (7268 is notable as the only one with an Ajax hand brake). Only
photos from the 1950s show cars with truss rods. The cars with truss rods all
have KV (DL&W's Keyser Valley Shops near Scranton) shop marks, which is
consistent with local railroaders who claimed that Keyser Valley added the truss
rods.

I have DL&W general arrangement drawings for these cars dated 1944 and 1952, and
neither mentions the truss rods though one of the photos is dated 1951.

The three cars pictured during the 1950s were empty when the photo was taken,
though one car is stenciled to be returned to the Nickel Plate Road at
Cleveland. That car has a reweigh date KV 4-40, same as the World's Fair car.
Other reweigh dates are earlier than the 1950s. The addition of truss rods
should require the car to be reweighed, but it's odd that the 1944 or 1952 books
don't mention the truss rods though they mention so many other less significant
components, modifications, etc.

If a concrete reason for the addition off truss rods surfaces, I'd love to hear
it. The downgrading of reefers on the DL&W was to use them in ice service ,which
is more dense than produce. But I have seen writings and waybills that discuss
bananas and potatoes as common lading, the latter moved in the winter with
heater pots in the ice bunkers. It's been my hope to model one or two one day.

Mike Del Vecchio

In a message dated 02/14/11 20:56:43 Eastern Standard Time,
rhendrickson@... writes:

Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design,
also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center
sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically
lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have
needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this
confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert.

Richard Hendrickson

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lrkdbn
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Feb 14, 2011, at 8:59 AM, MDelvec952@... wrote:

The DL&W added truss rods to some of this batch of reefers to
stiffen the sills, and this is clearly seen in the photo
Plausible but untrue, Mike. The cars were built by MDT at a time
when both MDT reefers and New York Central box cars were equipped
with shallow steel center sills to absorb draft and buff forces and
two truss rods under the center sills to support the center of the
car. I have several photos, including builder's shots, of cars with
this odd combination of steel center sills and truss rods.

Richard Hendrickson


That NYC 2-truss rod underframe was an ACF design in 1910-and was not the same as the DL&W car. Westerfield's ACF photo disk has a
picture of such an underframe. I might add I've seen pictures of NYC
early-design (PSC)steel flat cars that had truss rods added later their lives evidently to reinforce them.The PRR did this also,to their early PSC flat cars and this is discussed in the PRRT&HS flat
car book
Larry King


pge253 <gregkennelly@...>
 

The same photograph that Matt has provided a link to is on page 169 of the 1928 "Car Builders' Cyclopedia". Drawings of the car are also included: plan and side elevation on page 168; cross section and end elevation on page 169.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC

--- In STMFC@..., "Matthew" <mforsyth127@...> wrote:


I suppose that anything is possible in the composition of the LRX fleet, especially after transferring the cars to MDT, but here's a builder's shot of DL&W #7000, the flagship (which is in the public domain).

http://mattforsyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/DLW-7000.jpg

It does not have a fishbelly center sill, but rather is straight, and at least to my eye, looks to be of the exact same construction of that of car #7218, that I posted before. If you look closely at #7000 you, can also read the ACF builders and repack data.

Matt Forsyth


A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: pge253
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:27 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image...





The same photograph that Matt has provided a link to is on page 169 of the 1928 "Car Builders' Cyclopedia". Drawings of the car are also included: plan and side elevation on page 168; cross section and end elevation on page 169.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC

--- In STMFC@..., "Matthew" <mforsyth127@...> wrote:
>
>
> I suppose that anything is possible in the composition of the LRX fleet, especially after transferring the cars to MDT, but here's a builder's shot of DL&W #7000, the flagship (which is in the public domain).
>
> http://mattforsyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/DLW-7000.jpg
>
> It does not have a fishbelly center sill, but rather is straight, and at least to my eye, looks to be of the exact same construction of that of car #7218, that I posted before. If you look closely at #7000 you, can also read the ACF builders and repack data.
>
> Matt Forsyth
>
>






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A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

Great shot of LRX 7099 in Kline- Culotta The Postwar Freight Car Fleet on Page104.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: pge253
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:27 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image...





The same photograph that Matt has provided a link to is on page 169 of the 1928 "Car Builders' Cyclopedia". Drawings of the car are also included: plan and side elevation on page 168; cross section and end elevation on page 169.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC

--- In STMFC@..., "Matthew" <mforsyth127@...> wrote:
>
>
> I suppose that anything is possible in the composition of the LRX fleet, especially after transferring the cars to MDT, but here's a builder's shot of DL&W #7000, the flagship (which is in the public domain).
>
> http://mattforsyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/DLW-7000.jpg
>
> It does not have a fishbelly center sill, but rather is straight, and at least to my eye, looks to be of the exact same construction of that of car #7218, that I posted before. If you look closely at #7000 you, can also read the ACF builders and repack data.
>
> Matt Forsyth
>
>






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10 06:32:00
____________________________________________________________
Dermatologists Hate Her
Local Mom Reveals $5 Trick to Erase Wrinkles. Shocking Results Exposed
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d5bc51fe085f39d2b3st01duc