Waybills


foxtrackin50
 

I am wanting to model using real waybills or copies of real waybills of trains that are passing thru Frankfort,In on the Nickel Plate. I have some waybills but wondering where or how I would go about getting more. They would not need to be Industries on the NKP but just cars that would be routed on the NKP either on the Cloverleaf div. or the LE&W div. Is there a source for waybills. I am modeling mid fifties but any waybill from the forties thru the early sixies would work. Is there a web site or books about waybills. Thanks Jan


pennsylvania1954
 

Hi Jan--You might get some info here, but you might want to join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Proto-Layouts/ where Tony Koester hangs out. If anyone knows Frankfort, he does.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

--- In STMFC@..., "foxtrackin50" <foxtrackin50@...> wrote:

I am wanting to model using real waybills or copies of real waybills of trains that are passing thru Frankfort,In on the Nickel Plate. I have some waybills but wondering where or how I would go about getting more. They would not need to be Industries on the NKP but just cars that would be routed on the NKP either on the Cloverleaf div. or the LE&W div. Is there a source for waybills. I am modeling mid fifties but any waybill from the forties thru the early sixies would work. Is there a web site or books about waybills. Thanks Jan


Tim O'Connor
 

Jan

If you model the NKP, you will want to find a prototype waybill (or scan)
from the NKP for your time period. Then print blanks on your computer, or
whatever. I'm sure Tony Koester knows where to find them! I've only operated
on one model layout who uses miniature prototype waybills, Dan Holbrook's
Duluth-Superior terminal. It adds some prototype flavor to operations. I
can't help you, I only have SP and RI examples.

Tim O'Connor

I am wanting to model using real waybills or copies of real waybills of trains that are passing thru Frankfort,In on the Nickel Plate. I have some waybills but wondering where or how I would go about getting more. They would not need to be Industries on the NKP but just cars that would be routed on the NKP either on the Cloverleaf div. or the LE&W div. Is there a source for waybills. I am modeling mid fifties but any waybill from the forties thru the early sixies would work. Is there a web site or books about waybills. Thanks Jan


foxtrackin50
 

Thanks Steve, I did just join that group. I live near Frankfort and I am a friend of Don Daily who is a friend of Tony. Just trying to make my waybills as real as possible. I like the way car cards work, but do not like the way they look.

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Hoxie" <stevehprr@...> wrote:

Hi Jan--You might get some info here, but you might want to join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Proto-Layouts/ where Tony Koester hangs out. If anyone knows Frankfort, he does.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

--- In STMFC@..., "foxtrackin50" <foxtrackin50@> wrote:

I am wanting to model using real waybills or copies of real waybills of trains that are passing thru Frankfort,In on the Nickel Plate. I have some waybills but wondering where or how I would go about getting more. They would not need to be Industries on the NKP but just cars that would be routed on the NKP either on the Cloverleaf div. or the LE&W div. Is there a source for waybills. I am modeling mid fifties but any waybill from the forties thru the early sixies would work. Is there a web site or books about waybills. Thanks Jan


foxtrackin50
 

Thanks Tim, that is what I am doing. I have copies of blank NKP waybills and also copies of some filled out waybills. I do have info on NKP industries from a 1944 shippers list. Just trying to get a better feel for who shipped what where. Jan

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Jan

If you model the NKP, you will want to find a prototype waybill (or scan)
from the NKP for your time period. Then print blanks on your computer, or
whatever. I'm sure Tony Koester knows where to find them! I've only operated
on one model layout who uses miniature prototype waybills, Dan Holbrook's
Duluth-Superior terminal. It adds some prototype flavor to operations. I
can't help you, I only have SP and RI examples.

Tim O'Connor


I am wanting to model using real waybills or copies of real waybills of trains that are passing thru Frankfort,In on the Nickel Plate. I have some waybills but wondering where or how I would go about getting more. They would not need to be Industries on the NKP but just cars that would be routed on the NKP either on the Cloverleaf div. or the LE&W div. Is there a source for waybills. I am modeling mid fifties but any waybill from the forties thru the early sixies would work. Is there a web site or books about waybills. Thanks Jan


Tim O'Connor
 

Jan

You may want to look at this group -- they have compiled spreadsheets
of real railroad freight shippers. Can you say "information overload"?

:-)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/

Tim O'

At 2/21/2011 07:32 PM Monday, you wrote:
Thanks Tim, that is what I am doing. I have copies of blank NKP waybills and also copies of some filled out waybills. I do have info on NKP industries from a 1944 shippers list. Just trying to get a better feel for who shipped what where. Jan


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
You may want to look at this group -- they have compiled spreadsheets of real railroad freight shippers. Can you say "information overload"?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/
Don't know if it's the same database, but the OpSIG (operations) group also has a huge listing of shippers on line, at opsig.org

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

Might be the same raw data, for sure. I don't know, there's only
so much time in the world for most of us. Railroads created paperwork
because they were a business. Paperwork is not my hobby interest. I'm
a minimalist myself -- a waybill only needs to say where the car is
going as far as I'm concerned. :-) Your waybill analysis pays real
dividends because it informs your modeling. But for the life of me
I can't see the utility of knowing that company ABC in East Podunk
bought fresh carrots and company XYZ in West Podunk only bought
oranges -- unless of course, I am modeling the Podunk Terminal Rwy.

Tim O'Connor



--------------------------------------------------

You may want to look at this group -- they have compiled
spreadsheets of real railroad freight shippers. Can you say
"information overload"?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/
Don't know if it's the same database, but the OpSIG (operations)
group also has a huge listing of shippers on line, at opsig.org

Tony Thompson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Your waybill analysis pays real dividends because it informs your modeling. But for the life of me I can't see the utility of knowing that company ABC in East Podunk bought fresh carrots and company XYZ in West Podunk only bought oranges -- unless of course, I am modeling the Podunk Terminal Rwy.
Ah, the key word you use is "utility," and as with so many things, utility in this subject is in the eye of the beholder. Or, if you like, I could say that the origin and destination info on waybills isn't there because it's USEFUL, it's there because it's INTERESTING. (And of course the prototype did it that way--after all, Tim, what's the "utility" of putting cut levers on box car models?) If we don't use a waybill which at least RESEMBLES the prototype, we approach the status of using "game cards" to run a layout. But again, that's my view and clearly not yours. This is certainly a hobby where "YMMV" has to be used frequently.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


foxtrackin50
 

Thanks Tony and Tim, I have just joined the ry-ops group and will be looking up their spreadsheets on railroad freight shippers. I know I will have to make up many of my own waybills for my ops. I do already have some waybills a sample would be(FOSTER FORBES GLASS CO #1803 MARION IND (2153) to PEPSI COLA CO, LOUISVILLE KY route NKP LINDEN MON LN DELY 2325 BXS MTY GLASS BTLS 1 GAL CAPY weight 30225 to which I would add my cars initals and number, car kind and date. This would be the type of info I will be looking for. I will then print this info on my copies of real NKP blank waybills. Thanks Jan

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:
You may want to look at this group -- they have compiled
spreadsheets of real railroad freight shippers. Can you say
"information overload"?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/
Don't know if it's the same database, but the OpSIG (operations)
group also has a huge listing of shippers on line, at opsig.org

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


George Simmons
 

--- In STMFC@..., "foxtrackin50" <foxtrackin50@...> wrote:

Thanks Tony and Tim, I have just joined the ry-ops group and will be looking up their spreadsheets on railroad freight shippers. I know I will have to make up many of my own waybills for my ops. I do already have some waybills a sample would be(FOSTER FORBES GLASS CO #1803 MARION IND (2153) to PEPSI COLA CO, LOUISVILLE KY route NKP LINDEN MON LN DELY 2325 BXS MTY GLASS BTLS 1 GAL CAPY weight 30225 to which I would add my cars initals and number, car kind and date. This would be the type of info I will be looking for. I will then print this info on my copies of real NKP blank waybills. Thanks Jan
Just remember that waybills for shippments that orginate on roads other than the NKP will not be on NKP waybills but the waybill of the orignating road.

George Simmons
Dry Prong, LA


Tim O'Connor
 

And so it begins... the downward spiral into paperwork modeling :-)

YMMV, indeed.

Tim "Why do you think they call it paper-WORK?" O'Connor

P.S. George, I just love the name of your home town!

-----------------------------------

Just remember that waybills for shippments that orginate on roads other than
the NKP will not be on NKP waybills but the waybill of the orignating road.
George Simmons
Dry Prong, LA


foxtrackin50
 

Paper-work modeling, we have invented a new hobby. lol Jan

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


And so it begins... the downward spiral into paperwork modeling :-)

YMMV, indeed.

Tim "Why do you think they call it paper-WORK?" O'Connor

P.S. George, I just love the name of your home town!

-----------------------------------

Just remember that waybills for shippments that orginate on roads other than
the NKP will not be on NKP waybills but the waybill of the orignating road.
George Simmons
Dry Prong, LA


foxtrackin50
 

George, yes I know I am looking for waybills with NKP routing also. Like Mopac to ACY routed thru the NKP. Real waybills of the Mopac filled in or blank would work. Just looking for a source of this kind of waybill. Thanks Jan

--- In STMFC@..., "MOPACMAN" <GEORGESIMMONS@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "foxtrackin50" <foxtrackin50@> wrote:

Thanks Tony and Tim, I have just joined the ry-ops group and will be looking up their spreadsheets on railroad freight shippers. I know I will have to make up many of my own waybills for my ops. I do already have some waybills a sample would be(FOSTER FORBES GLASS CO #1803 MARION IND (2153) to PEPSI COLA CO, LOUISVILLE KY route NKP LINDEN MON LN DELY 2325 BXS MTY GLASS BTLS 1 GAL CAPY weight 30225 to which I would add my cars initals and number, car kind and date. This would be the type of info I will be looking for. I will then print this info on my copies of real NKP blank waybills. Thanks Jan
Just remember that waybills for shippments that orginate on roads other than the NKP will not be on NKP waybills but the waybill of the orignating road.

George Simmons
Dry Prong, LA


A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

Question:Would waybills be as important (in the model world) for through freights as to way freights?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 8:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Waybills



Tony

Might be the same raw data, for sure. I don't know, there's only
so much time in the world for most of us. Railroads created paperwork
because they were a business. Paperwork is not my hobby interest. I'm
a minimalist myself -- a waybill only needs to say where the car is
going as far as I'm concerned. :-) Your waybill analysis pays real
dividends because it informs your modeling. But for the life of me
I can't see the utility of knowing that company ABC in East Podunk
bought fresh carrots and company XYZ in West Podunk only bought
oranges -- unless of course, I am modeling the Podunk Terminal Rwy.

Tim O'Connor

--------------------------------------------------

>> You may want to look at this group -- they have compiled
>> spreadsheets of real railroad freight shippers. Can you say
>> "information overload"?
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/
>
>Don't know if it's the same database, but the OpSIG (operations)
>group also has a huge listing of shippers on line, at opsig.org
>
>Tony Thompson






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George Simmons
 

--- In STMFC@..., "A. Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

Question:Would waybills be as important (in the model world) for through freights as to way freights?Armand Premo
Depends. Do the through freights have any work on the model portion? If they just roll through without stopping then no they might not be as important. But if cars must be removed from one train and set into another then they will be needed. On a friends model railroad, cars that just move from staging to stagning have a carcard but instead of a waybill, they just have a card in the pocket that says "THRU". When working these train in the two classification yards, the cars with the "THRU" cards are never taken out of the train, well hardly every.

George Simmons
Dry Prong, LA


Aley, Jeff A
 

Armand,

It depends upon how you operate your model RR. If you allow freight agents to "confiscate" empty cars as they pass through the yard, then the cars in your through trains will need waybills and Empty Car bills to designate which are available for confiscation.

On the other hand, if there is no such operation on your model rr, then waybills are not needed for through freights.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of A. Premo
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 8:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Waybills



Question:Would waybills be as important (in the model world) for through freights as to way freights?Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 8:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Waybills

Tony

Might be the same raw data, for sure. I don't know, there's only
so much time in the world for most of us. Railroads created paperwork
because they were a business. Paperwork is not my hobby interest. I'm
a minimalist myself -- a waybill only needs to say where the car is
going as far as I'm concerned. :-) Your waybill analysis pays real
dividends because it informs your modeling. But for the life of me
I can't see the utility of knowing that company ABC in East Podunk
bought fresh carrots and company XYZ in West Podunk only bought
oranges -- unless of course, I am modeling the Podunk Terminal Rwy.

Tim O'Connor

--------------------------------------------------

You may want to look at this group -- they have compiled
spreadsheets of real railroad freight shippers. Can you say
"information overload"?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/
Don't know if it's the same database, but the OpSIG (operations)
group also has a huge listing of shippers on line, at opsig.org

Tony Thompson
----------------------------------------------------------

Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10 06:32:00

__________________________________________________________
Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
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mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Jeff Aley writes:

"It depends upon how you operate your model RR. If you allow freight agents to "confiscate" empty cars as they pass through the yard, then the cars in your through trains will need waybills and Empty Car bills to designate which are available for confiscation.

On the other hand, if there is no such operation on your model rr, then waybills are not needed for through freights."

No one responding in this thread has mentioned a frt conductor's book. Now...given that there is much paper work and RR functions that we don't mercifully have to perform...like checking for hot boxes, checking on tie life, replacing individual ties, supplying paper to the agent, replacing flues, placing sand in sand bunkers, straightening track after a 4-12-2 rolls by, etc....I find that the info in a frt conductor's book supplies all I need with regard to frt car movement on my Sherman Hill layout with its minimum number of industries...not unlike most mountain RR activity. For example, a frt conductor's book identifies each frt car in a train, the train its in, the car's contents, where it came from and where it's going. In the case of, say, train X4004 headed east from Rawlins to Laramie, the list of cars will usually include a large number going east to other locations. The yardmaster will remove those going through Denver and will be careful not to exceed the locomotive's tonnage rating for the grade over the Hill. A new list would then be generated for the train before it left Laramnie eastbound. Now, of course, I could supply a tiny hammer for the yard crew to nail a destination card [ I have a video showing this process ] to each car but when I have done that in the past, the operators lose the %&^%$# hammers AND no one can read the &(&^+$ cars on the car anyhow.

To help the crew of, say, X9003, a train order will specify that cars are to be dropped at Brucef...ooops...Buford. The conductor will tell the head end crew what cars are to be dropped...and the agent at Buford will tell them where....with luck.
Mike Brock


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: mike brock

No one responding in this thread has mentioned a frt conductor's book. . . .

----- Original Message -----


What was the real RR purpose of the conductor's book?

KL


Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

Many years ago at the old Nashua Valley Model RR club, we operated
from hand written train sheets that just listed the cars, and their
destinations. Worked like a charm. Wayfreights simply picked up cars
from local industries and returned with them, after dropping off
their assigned cars.

Tim O'Connor

No one responding in this thread has mentioned a frt conductor's book.
Now...given that there is much paper work and RR functions that we don't
mercifully have to perform...like checking for hot boxes, checking on tie
life, replacing individual ties, supplying paper to the agent, replacing
flues, placing sand in sand bunkers, straightening track after a 4-12-2
rolls by, etc....I find that the info in a frt conductor's book supplies all
I need with regard to frt car movement on my Sherman Hill layout with its
minimum number of industries...not unlike most mountain RR activity. For
example, a frt conductor's book identifies each frt car in a train, the
train its in, the car's contents, where it came from and where it's going.
In the case of, say, train X4004 headed east from Rawlins to Laramie, the
list of cars will usually include a large number going east to other
locations. The yardmaster will remove those going through Denver and will be
careful not to exceed the locomotive's tonnage rating for the grade over the
Hill. A new list would then be generated for the train before it left
Laramnie eastbound. Now, of course, I could supply a tiny hammer for the
yard crew to nail a destination card [ I have a video showing this process ]
to each car but when I have done that in the past, the operators lose the
%&^%$# hammers AND no one can read the &(&^+$ cars on the car anyhow.

To help the crew of, say, X9003, a train order will specify that cars are to
be dropped at Brucef...ooops...Buford. The conductor will tell the head end
crew what cars are to be dropped...and the agent at Buford will tell them
where....with luck.
Mike Brock