Panel side hoppers


Clark Propst
 

I finished a Power Point presentation for Stan Rydarowicz last week.
It's mainly about the Wabash cars. That's what Stan sells models of. Also included are C&O, NYC, PRR, and CNW. I have a couple photos of Frisco panel sides. One partial in is front of a caboose. I thought it would make a good "The End" slide. But, I hesitated to use it because I know nothing about the Frisco cars. If someone could provide me with a descent photo and a brief description of the series I'd really appreciate it.

Did any other railroads that owned any?
Thanks, Clark Propst


S hed <shed999@...>
 

The only other railroads that I know of that had panel sides are the Rock Island and the MKT. There might be another RR that I am kinda of sure that had them but it'll have to wait until when I get home from work.

- Steve Hedlund

To: STMFC@...
From: cepropst@q.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:14:51 +0000
Subject: [STMFC] Panel side hoppers




























I finished a Power Point presentation for Stan Rydarowicz last week.

It's mainly about the Wabash cars. That's what Stan sells models of. Also included are C&O, NYC, PRR, and CNW. I have a couple photos of Frisco panel sides. One partial in is front of a caboose. I thought it would make a good "The End" slide. But, I hesitated to use it because I know nothing about the Frisco cars. If someone could provide me with a descent photo and a brief description of the series I'd really appreciate it.



Did any other railroads that owned any?

Thanks, Clark Propst


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Charles Hladik
 

Clark,
D&H had some also.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division

In a message dated 3/7/2011 4:15:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cepropst@q.com writes:




I finished a Power Point presentation for Stan Rydarowicz last week.
It's mainly about the Wabash cars. That's what Stan sells models of. Also
included are C&O, NYC, PRR, and CNW. I have a couple photos of Frisco panel
sides. One partial in is front of a caboose. I thought it would make a
good "The End" slide. But, I hesitated to use it because I know nothing about
the Frisco cars. If someone could provide me with a descent photo and a
brief description of the series I'd really appreciate it.

Did any other railroads that owned any?
Thanks, Clark Propst


Ray Breyer
 

NKP 32000-32149 (149 cars, not 150). Rebuilt in 1936 from NKP 30750-31749 composite hoppers, originally built in 1923.

These cars are a little odd, in that they only have six blisters per side, matching the original vertical stake count. I haven't been able to track down where they got the panels from. The cars themselves survived to 1956.

These cars were all over the railroad, but tracking down a photo of an entire car is pretty much impossible; mostly, they show up hidden behind engines in terminals. I have one murky color photo of an unidentifiable but whole car tucked in behind a B&A steam freight in 1949.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

--- On Mon, 3/7/11, S hed <shed999@...> wrote:
The only other railroads that I know of that had panel
sides are the Rock Island and the MKT. There might be
another RR that I am kinda of sure that had them but it'll
have to wait until when I get home from work.
- Steve Hedlund

To: STMFC@...
From: cepropst@q.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:14:51 +0000
Subject: [STMFC] Panel side hoppers     
      I finished a Power Point presentation
for Stan Rydarowicz last week.
It's mainly about the Wabash cars. That's what Stan sells
models of. Also included are C&O, NYC, PRR, and CNW. I
have a couple photos of Frisco panel sides. One partial in
is front of a caboose. I thought it would make a good "The
End" slide. But, I hesitated to use it because I know
nothing about the Frisco cars. If someone could provide me
with a descent photo and a brief description of the series
I'd really appreciate it.
Did any other railroads that owned any?
Thanks, Clark Propst


Greg Martin
 

Clark,

Like the PRR the New Haven had a sum total of one car.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: cepropst@q.com
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, Mar 7, 2011 1:14 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Panel side hoppers




I finished a Power Point presentation for Stan Rydarowicz last week.
It's mainly about the Wabash cars. That's what Stan sells models of. Also included are C&O, NYC, PRR, and CNW. I have a couple photos of Frisco panel sides. One partial in is front of a caboose. I thought it would make a good "The End" slide. But, I hesitated to use it because I know nothing about the Frisco cars. If someone could provide me with a descent photo and a brief description of the series I'd really appreciate it.

Did any other railroads that owned any?
Thanks, Clark Propst







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


water.kresse@...
 

The C&O converted 23 twin-bay and 1200 triple-bay rib-sided cars.   Did anyone find any cost data on the cost of these panels vs. flat panels? . . . documentation as to what monster-press they were formed on?



Al

----- Original Message -----
From: tgregmrtn@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2011 4:58:24 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Panel side hoppers


Clark,

Like the PRR the New Haven had a sum total of one car.

Greg Martin






-----Original Message-----
From: cepropst@q.com
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, Mar 7, 2011 1:14 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Panel side hoppers


 

I finished a Power Point presentation for Stan Rydarowicz last week.
It's mainly about the Wabash cars. That's what Stan sells models of. Also included are C&O, NYC, PRR, and CNW. I have a couple photos of Frisco panel sides. One partial in is front of a caboose. I thought it would make a good "The End" slide. But, I hesitated to use it because I know nothing about the Frisco cars. If someone could provide me with a descent photo and a brief description of the series I'd really appreciate it.

Did any other railroads that owned any?
Thanks, Clark Propst


cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:

I finished a Power Point presentation for Stan Rydarowicz last week.
It's mainly about the Wabash cars. That's what Stan sells models of. Also included are C&O, NYC, PRR, and CNW. I have a couple photos of Frisco panel sides. One partial in is front of a caboose. I thought it would make a good "The End" slide. But, I hesitated to use it because I know nothing about the Frisco cars. If someone could provide me with a descent photo and a brief description of the series I'd really appreciate it.

Did any other railroads that owned any?

The Wabash had two groups of panels hoppers. The older cars included
1000 USRA cars built in 1919 and 750 cars built by Standard Steel Car
in 1923, consisting of new bodies and rebuilt trucks. 500 of the SSC
cars received panel sides between 1936 and 1938. Most of the USRA cars received panel side in the 1930's, although some remained as built. The Wabash referred to them as plain side cars in the equipment books. All the above cars had 30'-6" IL.

Starting in 1937, the Wabash began building panel side hoppers with a
33'-0" IL. The railroad built over 1400 of these cars between 1937 and 1951. Many of the 33' foot cars were equipped with rebuilt trucks
from the USRA and SSC cars. The Wabash also built 25 of the 33' cars
for the Ann Arbor in 1941. Stan Rydarowicz offers panels for the 33'
cars.

Clark, I believe the Frisco cars had different shape panels, perhaps
for USRA cars. The top bevel on them was longer than on the Wabash
and other panel type cars. They may have been stampings from Enterprise.

Chet French
Dixon,IL


ROGER HINMAN
 

Central Vermont had some, there was an article in RMC a few years ago on these cars.


Roger Hinman
On Mar 7, 2011, at 4:14 PM, cepropst@q.com wrote:

I finished a Power Point presentation for Stan Rydarowicz last week.
It's mainly about the Wabash cars. That's what Stan sells models of. Also included are C&O, NYC, PRR, and CNW. I have a couple photos of Frisco panel sides. One partial in is front of a caboose. I thought it would make a good "The End" slide. But, I hesitated to use it because I know nothing about the Frisco cars. If someone could provide me with a descent photo and a brief description of the series I'd really appreciate it.

Did any other railroads that owned any?
Thanks, Clark Propst



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

You can also add the D&H.The CV added panels to some of their hoppers.They had some cars with only a few panels added.The Central Vermont also removed the panels on some of the hoppers that had been previously converted.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: cepropst@q.com
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 4:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Panel side hoppers



I finished a Power Point presentation for Stan Rydarowicz last week.
It's mainly about the Wabash cars. That's what Stan sells models of. Also included are C&O, NYC, PRR, and CNW. I have a couple photos of Frisco panel sides. One partial in is front of a caboose. I thought it would make a good "The End" slide. But, I hesitated to use it because I know nothing about the Frisco cars. If someone could provide me with a descent photo and a brief description of the series I'd really appreciate it.

Did any other railroads that owned any?
Thanks, Clark Propst






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David
 

--- In STMFC@..., Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

NKP 32000-32149 (149 cars, not 150). Rebuilt in 1936 from NKP 30750-31749 composite hoppers, originally built in 1923.

These cars were all over the railroad, but tracking down a photo of an entire car is pretty much impossible; mostly, they show up hidden behind engines in terminals. I have one murky color photo of an unidentifiable but whole car tucked in behind a B&A steam freight in 1949.
I've seen an in-train photo in a book (or magazine?) I have, but I don't remember which one. Next time I come across it, I'll try to remember to post up.

David Thompson


David
 

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:

Did any other railroads that owned any?
Aside from what's already been named, Missouri Pacific and Grand Trunk also had rebuilds, and EJ&E had some 70-ton side-dump hoppers built new.

David Thompson


Ray Breyer
 

--- In STMFC@... cepropst@... wrote:
Did any other railroads that owned any?

I just dug through my photo stash, and found a photo of CN 117717, which is a pre-USRA rebuilt into a panel twin.

Also not mentioned yet are the P&LE panel twins, which I suppose should fall under the NYC blanket.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


al_brown03
 

There's a photo of NKP 32108 in Kline and Culotta, "PFCF", p 153.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "jaydeet2001" <jaydeet2001@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@> wrote:

NKP 32000-32149 (149 cars, not 150). Rebuilt in 1936 from NKP 30750-31749 composite hoppers, originally built in 1923.

These cars were all over the railroad, but tracking down a photo of an entire car is pretty much impossible; mostly, they show up hidden behind engines in terminals. I have one murky color photo of an unidentifiable but whole car tucked in behind a B&A steam freight in 1949.
I've seen an in-train photo in a book (or magazine?) I have, but I don't remember which one. Next time I come across it, I'll try to remember to post up.

David Thompson


David
 

--- In STMFC@..., "jaydeet2001" <jaydeet2001@...> wrote:

I've seen an in-train photo in a book
Extra South, top of p.115; on the C&O in 1951.

David Thompson


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:



The C&O converted 23 twin-bay and 1200 triple-bay rib-sided cars.   Did anyone find any cost data on the cost of these panels vs. flat panels? . . . documentation as to what monster-press they were formed on?



Al
I can't see the forming press being anything unusual; the side of each panel was about the same as the size of the panels that made up a Dreadnaught end (also made by the same company, Union Metal Products.)

As to cost, the original design side panels, those made to make use of the original (or replacement) side stakes were obviously more expensive than flat sheet, but did serve ti increase the car capacity. The later design, with the integral stakes, eliminated the cost of replacement stakes, so may have been on par with rebuilding in-kind, but also yielded a larger capacity car.

Dennis


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "cef39us" <cfrench@...> wrote:


Clark, I believe the Frisco cars had different shape panels, perhaps
for USRA cars. The top bevel on them was longer than on the Wabash
and other panel type cars. They may have been stampings from Enterprise.

Chet French
Dixon,IL

Chet,

These cars may have been rebuilt with yet another variation offered by Union Metal Products, designed to be used with 5-1/2" bulb angle stakes. The common panels projected 4" from the normal plane of the side; nominally the same amount as the original stakes. The Bulb angle stakes projected 5-1/2",and the pressed panels projected the same amount. Use of the same angle at the top of the panels (dictated by the car dumpers of the day) brought the bend line down lower on the car. The general drawing of this style in the 1940 Cyc. shows the two end most panels as the standard 4" projection, so the bend line didn't line up with the six center panels, but that's not saying any cars were actually built that way.

Dennis


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
As to cost, the original design side panels, those made to make use of the original (or replacement) side stakes were obviously more expensive than flat sheet, but did serve ti increase the car capacity. The later design, with the integral stakes, eliminated the cost of replacement stakes, so may have been on par with rebuilding in-kind, but also yielded a larger capacity car.
An article about these panel replacements in Railway Age also observed that they retained the advantage of being supported by the side stakes, like the original flat panels, unlike an offset car design in which the internal load put the attachments in tension.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


water.kresse@...
 

While the panel sizes are not that much different, there appears to be a greater depth of draw and the side-wall angles are more aggressive.  The radii also appear to be smaller.  Do we know if these were cold or warm-formed?  Where any every made out of COR-TEN steel?



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2011 10:44:51 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Panel side hoppers



--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:



The C&O converted 23 twin-bay and 1200 triple-bay rib-sided cars.   Did anyone find any cost data on the cost of these panels vs. flat panels? . . . documentation as to what monster-press they were formed on?



Al
I can't see the forming press being anything unusual; the side of each panel was about the same as the size of the panels that made up a Dreadnaught end (also made by the same company, Union Metal Products.)

As to cost, the original design side panels, those made to make use of the original (or replacement) side stakes were obviously more expensive than flat sheet, but did serve ti increase the car capacity. The later design, with the integral stakes, eliminated the cost of replacement stakes, so may have been on par with rebuilding in-kind, but also yielded a larger capacity car.

Dennis


mforsyth127
 

A. Premo wrote:

You can also add the D&H.
Correct. The D&H took delivery of 1000 USRA twin, and in the mid '30's rebuilt 302 of them with panel sides. In fact, some were even equipped with an expanded panel end and integrated heap shield.

Here's a pic of 3807 on my website with that end.

http://mattforsyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/3807-Panel-side.jpg

Tough to get any accurate car numbers, as to which of the USRA twins were rebuilt, as they were not renumbered and were selected from the hopper pool at random. Same holds true for the rebuilding of their USRA S/S boxcars. Some got upgraded with Murphy raised panel roofs, whereas others got the Viking.

Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division
Erie Jefferson Division
in "O" Scale, summer, 1952

http://mattforsyth.com/


David Henderson <henderson.david55@...>
 

Clark,

There are some drawings and a few photos of a Frisco/Rock Island panel side hopper in the April, 1987 issue of MAINLINE MODELER.

Regards...David Henderson

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:

I finished a Power Point presentation for Stan Rydarowicz last week.
It's mainly about the Wabash cars. That's what Stan sells models of. Also included are C&O, NYC, PRR, and CNW. I have a couple photos of Frisco panel sides. One partial in is front of a caboose. I thought it would make a good "The End" slide. But, I hesitated to use it because I know nothing about the Frisco cars. If someone could provide me with a descent photo and a brief description of the series I'd really appreciate it.

Did any other railroads that owned any?
Thanks, Clark Propst