Steam era freight yards, take II


MDelvec952
 

The photo is posted, at: http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-30-11/PRR_freight_yard_1942+edit.jpg

This is a page from the EL list at railfan.net, a pretty active list.

After the photo loads, rolling the thumbwheel on the mouse with the cursor over the photo will enlarge or reduce the image.

If anyone can place the location, please share it. The other images on this roll of film are on the PRR in New Jersey and eastern Pa.

Thanks ....Mike

In a message dated 03/29/11 01:27:07 Eastern Daylight Time, wjimwolf@... writes:

Is this photo going to be posted? I have much the same interest as Mike in viewing it.

Jim Wolf

--- In STMFC@..., MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...> wrote:



The recent plea for more wartime photography reminded me of a negative I own where I'd love to know the location. The other images on these strips of 35mm are in the Freehold area and elsehwere on the PRR in the 1940s. None are marked for date and location; one uncut roll was 2/3rds shot at the 1939 World's Fair, mostly Pennsy stuff.

Posted in an STMFC album called "Steam era freight yards," this image shows a yard full of cars along a river. It's likely in the New Jersey / Pennsylvania area based on the frames on the rest of the roll.

Based on the paint schemes in the yard, I'm guessing the image was made during wartime or later 1940s. Anyone more versed in freight car paint schemes and eras care to guess the year? Most importantly I'd love to know the location.

The original is 35 mm scanned so that we can see every grain. The resolution is what it is. The image is pending moderator's approval.

Thanks in advance ....Mike Del Vecchio





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Do the tracks on the left also belong to PRR? Are there tracks on the
other side of the river? My guess is that is has to be somewhere in
Pennsylvania, given the terrain. That long ridge in the background looks
like mine tailings; those are littered around anthracite country.

Tim O'

At 3/30/2011 11:42 PM Wednesday, you wrote:


The photo is posted, at: http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-30-11/PRR_freight_yard_1942+edit.jpg

This is a page from the EL list at railfan.net, a pretty active list.

After the photo loads, rolling the thumbwheel on the mouse with the cursor over the photo will enlarge or reduce the image.

If anyone can place the location, please share it. The other images on this roll of film are on the PRR in New Jersey and eastern Pa.

Thanks ....Mike


Bruce Smith
 

Tim,

I doubt that any of these tracks belong to the PRR (although I could be wrong). If the location is NJ, then it must be somewhere in the north/west parts of Joisey, due to the hills. Location could also be in northeast PA.

The 2 offset 2-bay hoppers in the nearest string of cars - Lehigh and New England?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Mar 30, 2011, at 11:35 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Do the tracks on the left also belong to PRR? Are there tracks on the
other side of the river? My guess is that is has to be somewhere in
Pennsylvania, given the terrain. That long ridge in the background looks
like mine tailings; those are littered around anthracite country.

Tim O'



At 3/30/2011 11:42 PM Wednesday, you wrote:


The photo is posted, at: http://lists.railfan.net/ erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-30-11/PRR_freight_yard_1942+edit.jpg

This is a page from the EL list at railfan.net, a pretty active list.

After the photo loads, rolling the thumbwheel on the mouse with the cursor over the photo will enlarge or reduce the image.

If anyone can place the location, please share it. The other images on this roll of film are on the PRR in New Jersey and eastern Pa.

Thanks ....Mike


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



rwitt_2000
 

Mike wrote:



The photo is posted, at:
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-03-30-11/PRR_freight\;
_yard_1942+edit.jpg

This is a page from the EL list at railfan.net, a pretty active list.

After the photo loads, rolling the thumbwheel on the mouse with the
cursor over the photo will enlarge or reduce the image.

If anyone can place the location, please share it. The other images
on this roll of film are on the PRR in New Jersey and eastern Pa.

In case members need further justification to purchase B&O wagon-top
boxcars note there are three visible in this photo: two M-53 and one
M-15. All three appeared to lettered with the "Kuhler WWII" styled
stenciling.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Tim O'Connor
 

Bruce

That was my first thought too, but the terrain seems wrong for L&NE
or LV. The lack of any tall surrounding hills plus the river, gives
me the impression of somewhere along the Susquehanna, or the Delaware
south of the Water Gap -- way south -- but I couln't think of any
yards just like this along the Delaware. Actually my very first idea
was Wilkes-Barre PA where the valley of the Susquehanna opens out.

I hope someone can identify the location!

Tim O'Connor

I doubt that any of these tracks belong to the PRR (although I could
be wrong). If the location is NJ, then it must be somewhere in the
north/west parts of Joisey, due to the hills. Location could also be
in northeast PA.

The 2 offset 2-bay hoppers in the nearest string of cars - Lehigh and
New England?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Brian Carlson
 

On the EL list, Clark's Summit was mentioned. I don't know the area, so I can't confirm, just passing it on to this list.
Brian Carlson

--- On Thu, 3/31/11, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Steam era freight yards, take II
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 1:07 PM


 



Bruce

That was my first thought too, but the terrain seems wrong for L&NE
or LV. The lack of any tall surrounding hills plus the river, gives
me the impression of somewhere along the Susquehanna, or the Delaware
south of the Water Gap -- way south -- but I couln't think of any
yards just like this along the Delaware. Actually my very first idea
was Wilkes-Barre PA where the valley of the Susquehanna opens out.

I hope someone can identify the location!

Tim O'Connor

I doubt that any of these tracks belong to the PRR (although I could
be wrong). If the location is NJ, then it must be somewhere in the
north/west parts of Joisey, due to the hills. Location could also be
in northeast PA.

The 2 offset 2-bay hoppers in the nearest string of cars - Lehigh and
New England?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Brian Carlson wrote:

On the EL list, Clark's Summit was mentioned. I don't know the area, so I can't confirm, just passing it on to this list.
Clarks Summit is named for its location up on a ridge. No river of that size in Clarks Summit.

Tom Madden


devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Bruce

That was my first thought too, but the terrain seems wrong for L&NE
or LV. The lack of any tall surrounding hills plus the river, gives
me the impression of somewhere along the Susquehanna, or the Delaware
south of the Water Gap -- way south -- but I couln't think of any
yards just like this along the Delaware. Actually my very first idea
was Wilkes-Barre PA where the valley of the Susquehanna opens out.

I hope someone can identify the location!

Tim O'Connor



I doubt that any of these tracks belong to the PRR (although I could
be wrong). If the location is NJ, then it must be somewhere in the
north/west parts of Joisey, due to the hills. Location could also be
in northeast PA.

The 2 offset 2-bay hoppers in the nearest string of cars - Lehigh and
New England?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
Guys,

You were getting warm. This is the PRR's Phillipsburg, NJ yard on the Bel-Del. The yard is on the east shore of the Delaware River, although at this location the river bank along the tracks is facing due south. The Bel-Del mainline is at the far right, intermixed with the loaded yard tracks. This was the PRR's interchange point with the Lehigh Valley (over the photographers left shoulder - I think all visible track is PRR). I am not near my books, but according to a PA railfan web site, there was a hump yard here, and the hump would be just over and behind the photographers left shoulder, with a tower just behind the photographer on the same side of the tracks. The empty yard tracks to the left center would be the bowl. Further over the photographers shoulder would be a PRR roundhouse, a smaller yard, and then the interchange with the LV.

Pictures from Penn Pilot pretty much confirm the geometry, although the 1939 Penn Pilot does not suggest quite as many yard tracks, while the 50's Penn Pilot photo shows quite a bit. Was this one of the PRR's WWII expansion projects? Locally the terrain is pretty much a flat plateau about 100-150 feet above river level, and this matches the view one gets in Google Earth.

The main line itself still exists, and based on Google Earth, the bridge across the creek in the distance looks to be unchanged. The yard and engine facilities look to be long gone.

I would love to get a hi-res image of this for, dare I say, a WWII fleet balance count... ;-)

Dave Evans


Tim O'Connor
 

Dave Evans wrote

This is the PRR's Phillipsburg, NJ yard on the Bel-Del .... there was a
hump yard here, and the hump would be just over and behind the photographers
left shoulder.... Further over the photographers shoulder would be.. the
interchange with the LV.

Cool!

I am amazed at the size of PRR's operation here. As a Jersey boy myself, all
I ever saw in this area seemed much in decline. But besides the LV, this is
the main conduit for PRR-L&HR traffic through the Maybrook gateway. I'd guess
that the L&HR traffic was a higher volume than LV interchange here, for PRR.

Easton-Phillipsburg would be a fascinating place for a steam era layout - PRR,
CNJ, LV, L&HR and DL&W. All of them in packed into an area of less than 10 sq
miles.

All signs of it seem erased in Google Earth, but there was once a direct link
from the lower (south) end of the PRR that went under the LV and CNJ lines to
the DL&W line.

Tim O'


Jim Wolf
 

P'burg is correct from my track chart from 1963. It shows about the same number of yard tracks (about 12) in the foreground, and it appears that the "bowl" or class yard is behind the photographer.

Jim Wolf
Belen, NM

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Evans" <devans1@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@> wrote:

Bruce

That was my first thought too, but the terrain seems wrong for L&NE
or LV. The lack of any tall surrounding hills plus the river, gives
me the impression of somewhere along the Susquehanna, or the Delaware
south of the Water Gap -- way south -- but I couln't think of any
yards just like this along the Delaware. Actually my very first idea
was Wilkes-Barre PA where the valley of the Susquehanna opens out.

I hope someone can identify the location!

Tim O'Connor



I doubt that any of these tracks belong to the PRR (although I could
be wrong). If the location is NJ, then it must be somewhere in the
north/west parts of Joisey, due to the hills. Location could also be
in northeast PA.

The 2 offset 2-bay hoppers in the nearest string of cars - Lehigh and
New England?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
Guys,

You were getting warm. This is the PRR's Phillipsburg, NJ yard on the Bel-Del. The yard is on the east shore of the Delaware River, although at this location the river bank along the tracks is facing due south. The Bel-Del mainline is at the far right, intermixed with the loaded yard tracks. This was the PRR's interchange point with the Lehigh Valley (over the photographers left shoulder - I think all visible track is PRR). I am not near my books, but according to a PA railfan web site, there was a hump yard here, and the hump would be just over and behind the photographers left shoulder, with a tower just behind the photographer on the same side of the tracks. The empty yard tracks to the left center would be the bowl. Further over the photographers shoulder would be a PRR roundhouse, a smaller yard, and then the interchange with the LV.

Pictures from Penn Pilot pretty much confirm the geometry, although the 1939 Penn Pilot does not suggest quite as many yard tracks, while the 50's Penn Pilot photo shows quite a bit. Was this one of the PRR's WWII expansion projects? Locally the terrain is pretty much a flat plateau about 100-150 feet above river level, and this matches the view one gets in Google Earth.

The main line itself still exists, and based on Google Earth, the bridge across the creek in the distance looks to be unchanged. The yard and engine facilities look to be long gone.

I would love to get a hi-res image of this for, dare I say, a WWII fleet balance count... ;-)

Dave Evans


pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

I am amazed at the size of PRR's operation here. As a Jersey boy myself, all
I ever saw in this area seemed much in decline. But besides the LV, this is
the main conduit for PRR-L&HR traffic through the Maybrook gateway. I'd guess
that the L&HR traffic was a higher volume than LV interchange here, for PRR.

Easton-Phillipsburg would be a fascinating place for a steam era layout - PRR,
CNJ, LV, L&HR and DL&W. All of them in packed into an area of less than 10 sq
miles.
On Veterans Day 1960 I took a series of three shots of the PRR Phillipsburg facilities from across the river just south of Easton. A couple of years ago I assembled them into a panoramic view of questionable quality - at least, as best as I could. When taking the photos I neglected to overlap the left and center ones:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/Phillipsburg.jpg

The line of cars at the left is no doubt bound for or just in from the Alpha cement plant at Martin's Creek, PA, a few miles north of Easton. The PRR crossed the Delaware to reach it, while the DL&W served it from Bangor to the north, and the LNE came up from the south. Fascinating place.

Tom Madden


devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., "pullmanboss" <tcmadden@...> wrote:


On Veterans Day 1960 I took a series of three shots of the PRR Phillipsburg facilities from across the river just south of Easton. A couple of years ago I assembled them into a panoramic view of questionable quality - at least, as best as I could. When taking the photos I neglected to overlap the left and center ones:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/Phillipsburg.jpg

The line of cars at the left is no doubt bound for or just in from the Alpha cement plant at Martin's Creek, PA, a few miles north of Easton. The PRR crossed the Delaware to reach it, while the DL&W served it from Bangor to the north, and the LNE came up from the south. Fascinating place.

Tom Madden
Tom,

Thanks for the post - the white tower near the right edge of your photo was likely just behind the photographer of the photo that started this. Interesting equipment in your photo - a Russel snow plow, I think a derrick (hard to make out).

A railfan site claimed the PRR had a hump yard here - I am not convinced and can not find any indication of that anywhere.

Dave Evans


John C. La Rue, Jr. <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

A flanger and a Jordan Spreader; the flanger yellow, the Jordan black. The Russell is well to the left of those two. All were more or less permanently assigned to the Phillipsburg yard.




John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Evans <devans1@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, Apr 1, 2011 12:25 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Steam era freight yards, take II





--- In STMFC@..., "pullmanboss" <tcmadden@...> wrote:


On Veterans Day 1960 I took a series of three shots of the PRR Phillipsburg facilities from across the river just south of Easton. A couple of years ago I assembled them into a panoramic view of questionable quality - at least, as best as I could. When taking the photos I neglected to overlap the left and center ones:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/Phillipsburg.jpg

The line of cars at the left is no doubt bound for or just in from the Alpha cement plant at Martin's Creek, PA, a few miles north of Easton. The PRR crossed the Delaware to reach it, while the DL&W served it from Bangor to the north, and the LNE came up from the south. Fascinating place.

Tom Madden
Tom,

Thanks for the post - the white tower near the right edge of your photo was likely just behind the photographer of the photo that started this. Interesting equipment in your photo - a Russel snow plow, I think a derrick (hard to make out).

A railfan site claimed the PRR had a hump yard here - I am not convinced and can not find any indication of that anywhere.

Dave Evans









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


bnpmodeler
 

Brian and Group:

Just to clear up some possible confusion: Mike Del Vecchio posted TWO photos
to the ErieLack list; the PRR/Bel-Del Phillipsburg view we're discussing
here, and also a view of a Lackawanna freight heading upgrade at Clarks
Summit, PA... He posted them both as "Where Are These From" quiz shots, so
the confusion is justifiable...

FYI all, the DL&W shot is almost as compelling as this one, lots of great
STMFC's behind an F7 ABB-GP-7 lashup... Verrrrrrry nice! It can be found
here:

http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-03-30-11

Enjoy and Happy Modeling to all!

Jim Harr

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jim Harr
Stella Scale Models
P.O. Box 121
High Bridge, NJ 08829-0121
908-797-0534
www.stellascalemodels.com


"On the EL list, Clark's Summit was mentioned. I don't know the area, so I
can't confirm, just passing it on to this list.
Brian Carlson"


Brian Carlson
 

hmm, OK. I got to this P'burg photo through the clarks summit messages, so I am not sure how that happened. I thought it odd Clarks Summit had a river next to it :). Thanks for the clarification.
Brian Carlson.

--- On Fri, 4/1/11, James Harr <bnchmark@...> wrote:


From: James Harr <bnchmark@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Steam era freight yards, take II
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 10:05 AM


 



Brian and Group:

Just to clear up some possible confusion: Mike Del Vecchio posted TWO photos
to the ErieLack list; the PRR/Bel-Del Phillipsburg view we're discussing
here, and also a view of a Lackawanna freight heading upgrade at Clarks
Summit, PA... He posted them both as "Where Are These From" quiz shots, so
the confusion is justifiable...

FYI all, the DL&W shot is almost as compelling as this one, lots of great
STMFC's behind an F7 ABB-GP-7 lashup... Verrrrrrry nice! It can be found
here:

http://lists.railfan.net/listthumb.cgi?erielack-03-30-11

Enjoy and Happy Modeling to all!

Jim Harr

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jim Harr
Stella Scale Models
P.O. Box 121
High Bridge, NJ 08829-0121
908-797-0534
www.stellascalemodels.com

"On the EL list, Clark's Summit was mentioned. I don't know the area, so I
can't confirm, just passing it on to this list.
Brian Carlson"








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Q1xaMacArthur1@...
 

Why are those switch stands placed so far
to the left of the turnouts themselves ?

A visibility problem ?
Ed K.
____________________________________________________________
Groupon.com Official Site
1 huge daily deal on the best stuff to do in your city. Try it today!
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devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., Q1xaMacArthur1@... wrote:

Why are those switch stands placed so far
to the left of the turnouts themselves ?

A visibility problem ?
Ed K.
Ed,

Could be, remember that the tower is just behind the photographer. Based on the sand on the adjacent track it would appear the near track is for trains headed up the hill to the LV interchange. So perhaps the stands are offset left so the tower can see them over a train on the near track?

Anyone find/see anything that would suggest this yard was used as a hump? It was naturally on a downgrade (from the higher LV tracks down to the PRR Bel-DEl main.), perhaps there was some gravity switching, not so much a formal hump operation? Only suggestion for a hump was on a railfan site. Not exactly source data.

Dave Evans


Brian Ehni <behni@...>
 

Probably to keep them safe from snow plows!

Thanks!

--

Brian Ehni


From: <Q1xaMacArthur1@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 12:01:56 -0400
To: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Cc: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Steam era freight yards, take II






Why are those switch stands placed so far
to the left of the turnouts themselves ?

A visibility problem ?
Ed K.


rwitt_2000
 

Ed K asked: Why are those switch stands placed so far to the left of the
turnouts themselves ?

A visibility problem ?

Brian Ehni replied: Probably to keep them safe from snow plows!

===============================

My guess is that in a previous arrangement a track once passed through
the "gap" before the utility poles were placed and the switch stands
had to be set outside all the trackage for lack of room and safety for
the switchmen. Yards often were very dynamic and track arrangements
changed to meet new requirements. I have "walked" many yards finding
buried ties and parts of former track switches.

Bob Witt


rwitt_2000
 

Tom Madden wrote: On Veterans Day 1960 I took a series of three shots of
the PRR Phillipsburg facilities from across the river just south of
Easton. A couple of years ago I assembled them into a panoramic view of
questionable quality - at least, as best as I could. When taking the
photos I neglected to overlap the left and center ones:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/Phillipsburg.jpg

The line of cars at the left is no doubt bound for or just in from the
Alpha cement plant at Martin's Creek, PA, a few miles north of Easton.
The PRR crossed the Delaware to reach it, while the DL&W served it from
Bangor to the north, and the LNE came up from the south. Fascinating
place.


Dave Evans replied: Thanks for the post - the white tower near the right
edge of your photo was likely just behind the photographer of the photo
that started this.

==================================

After looking at the two sets of photos for longer than I care to admit,
I found a landmark common to both. It is the yard lights mount on the
"twin" utility poles. They on the left side of the original photo and
to the right of the tower in Tom's photos.

Bob Witt