Intermountain SP T&NO B-50-26 roof


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

The subject of this message has probably been discussed many times. Fine. It's going to be discussed again. Remember, I'm the only one at this party with a gun<G>.

OK. For Tony Thompson...although others are welcome to chime in. The SP 12 panel B-50-26 box car. Intermountain has produced both the SP and T&NO versions. The SP version has a panel roof and wood running board. The T&NO version has a diagonal roof and metal running board [ at least mine does ].

Tony's excellent book on SP box cars, Vol 4 of his SP Freight Cars, notes on pg 303 that the B-50-27 had the first digonal roofs [presumably of the 40 ft SP box cars ]. Futhermore, Table 12-2 on pg 283 indicates a panel roof. Do we have a problem?

Mike Brock


Paul Lyons
 

Mike,

The SP and the T&NO B-50-26's had straight panel roofs and metal running boards. The running board manufacturers varied depending on the builder and car series number. The real problem with the Intermountain kit is that the end is really not correct ( I will get some flak here) and that is why Culotta did his SP B-50-25 kit. One of these kits with one of the Southwest (Dan Hall) Superior, or interm Youngstown doors, is the most accurate way to get a B-50-26. Then as has been ststed on this list, it will not be "dead on" accurate as the IM kit is based on a Great Northern car.

Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: mike brock <brockm@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Mar 31, 2011 3:10 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Intermountain SP T&NO B-50-26 roof




The subject of this message has probably been discussed many times. Fine.
It's going to be discussed again. Remember, I'm the only one at this party
with a gun<G>.

OK. For Tony Thompson...although others are welcome to chime in. The SP 12
panel B-50-26 box car. Intermountain has produced both the SP and T&NO
versions. The SP version has a panel roof and wood running board. The T&NO
version has a diagonal roof and metal running board [ at least mine does ].

Tony's excellent book on SP box cars, Vol 4 of his SP Freight Cars, notes on
pg 303 that the B-50-27 had the first digonal roofs [presumably of the 40 ft
SP box cars ]. Futhermore, Table 12-2 on pg 283 indicates a panel roof. Do
we have a problem?

Mike Brock







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

mike brock wrote:
OK. For Tony Thompson...although others are welcome to chime in. The SP 12 panel B-50-26 box car. Intermountain has produced both the SP and T&NO versions. The SP version has a panel roof and wood running board. The T&NO version has a diagonal roof and metal running board [ at least mine does ].
Everything I know and every document I can access says the IM T&NO version is wrong. Moreover, all of the Class B-50-25 cars, having been built during and after 1946, were built with a steel running board (Morton or Apex). Photos show that this was the case even for the earliest cars in the class, built in July 1946. The IM cars also need a wide-seam door, available from Southwest models, the same distinctive door as on the B-50-24 Overnight cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Paul Lyons
 

Tony,
Mike is asking about the 26's, not the 25's. You still need a Southwest door, but not the wide seam one.
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Mar 31, 2011 5:15 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Intermountain SP T&NO B-50-26 roof




mike brock wrote:
OK. For Tony Thompson...although others are welcome to chime in. The
SP 12 panel B-50-26 box car. Intermountain has produced both the SP
and T&NO versions. The SP version has a panel roof and wood running
board. The T&NO version has a diagonal roof and metal running board
[ at least mine does ].
Everything I know and every document I can access says the IM
T&NO version is wrong. Moreover, all of the Class B-50-25 cars, having
been built during and after 1946, were built with a steel running
board (Morton or Apex). Photos show that this was the case even for
the earliest cars in the class, built in July 1946. The IM cars also
need a wide-seam door, available from Southwest models, the same
distinctive door as on the B-50-24 Overnight cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


WaltGCox@...
 

In a message dated 3/31/2011 8:15:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
thompson@... writes:

mike brock wrote:
OK. For Tony Thompson...although others are welcome to chime in. The
SP 12 panel B-50-26 box car. Intermountain has produced both the SP
and T&NO versions. The SP version has a panel roof and wood running
board. The T&NO version has a diagonal roof and metal running board
[ at least mine does ].
Everything I know and every document I can access says the IM
T&NO version is wrong. Moreover, all of the Class B-50-25 cars, having
been built during and after 1946, were built with a steel running
board (Morton or Apex). Photos show that this was the case even for
the earliest cars in the class, built in July 1946. The IM cars also
need a wide-seam door, available from Southwest models, the same
distinctive door as on the B-50-24 Overnight cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, _thompson@...
(mailto:thompson@...)
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul Lyons wrote:
Mike is asking about the 26's, not the 25's. You still need a Southwest door, but not the wide seam one.
You're right. I was emphasizing that the -25s, preceding the -26s, all had steel running boards, so a -26 with wood running board is definitely bogus. My comment on the wide-seam door only applies to the 1946 -25s. The 1947 -25s and all -26s had a different door, as you say.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


WaltGCox@...
 

Sorry about that last post. I had just hit the reply button when our cocker
spaniel landed in my lap causing me to hit the send button. The result is
history.

I am looking for some wide seam doors and tried to Google" Southwest
models" but the closest hit was for a 737 wrapped in a decal of a (female)
model. Would anyone have their website or more of the company name?

TIA Walt

In a message dated 3/31/2011 8:15:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_thompson@... (mailto:thompson@...) writes:

The IM cars also need a wide-seam door, available from Southwest models,
the same
distinctive door as on the B-50-24 Overnight cars.


Jim Hayes
 

Try Andy Carlson midcentury@...
<midcentury@...>
Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 6:48 PM, <WaltGCox@...> wrote:



Sorry about that last post. I had just hit the reply button when our cocker

spaniel landed in my lap causing me to hit the send button. The result is
history.

I am looking for some wide seam doors and tried to Google" Southwest
models" but the closest hit was for a 737 wrapped in a decal of a (female)
model. Would anyone have their website or more of the company name?

TIA Walt

In a message dated 3/31/2011 8:15:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_thompson@... (mailto:thompson@...) writes:

The IM cars also need a wide-seam door, available from Southwest models,
the same
distinctive door as on the B-50-24 Overnight cars.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Ed Hawkins
 

On Mar 31, 2011, at 8:48 PM, WaltGCox@... wrote:

I am looking for some wide seam doors and tried to Google" Southwest
models" but the closest hit was for a 737 wrapped in a decal of a
(female)
model. Would anyone have their website or more of the company name?
Walt,
Southwest Scale Productions at http://www.southwestscale.com/
Ed Hawkins


Tim O'Connor
 

T&NO B-50-25 series 54850-55199 had wide seam doors, but
T&NO series 55200-55699 had Superior doors.

As everyone here should know, any box car built for a US railroad
from 1944 onwards had steel running boards (until after the era of
STMFC interest).

The first use of the diagonal panel roof was 1948. Since these cars
were built 1946-1947, you know that IM has made a mistake if they used
an RP roof.

Ed Hawkins noted the first use of the diagonal panel roof was on
a series of GN 10' 12 panel box cars -- just like the IM kit!

Tim O'Connor

Everything I know and every document I can access says the IM
T&NO version is wrong. Moreover, all of the Class B-50-25 cars, having
been built during and after 1946, were built with a steel running
board (Morton or Apex). Photos show that this was the case even for
the earliest cars in the class, built in July 1946. The IM cars also
need a wide-seam door, available from Southwest models, the same
distinctive door as on the B-50-24 Overnight cars.

Tony Thompson


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor says:

As everyone here should know, any box car built for a US railroad
from 1944 onwards had steel running boards (until after the era of
STMFC interest).
Weeeelll, that depends on the definition of the word "is"...uh...I mean "from". If you mean by the end of 1944, you are at least correct that it appears that box cars were built with metal running boards after 1944. However, if you mean that no wood running boards were applied DURING 1944...you are not correct. In fact, apparently the AAR recommended the use of "other than wood" on 1/1/1944 and wood running boards were applied on none other than Santa Fe on their Bx-38 on 2-1944. I mean...surely Santa Fe wouldn't lie...would they?

Hmmm. Wonder where I can steal a panel roof from? Unfortunately, Red Caboose made a B-50-23 with a wood running board but with a panel roof. So...forgetting the end and door issues...I could apply the RC roof to the IM T&NO car...it having a metal running board. Hmmm.

Mike Brock


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 31, 2011, at 10:13 PM, mike brock wrote:

... In fact, apparently the AAR recommended the use
of "other than wood" on 1/1/1944 and wood running boards were
applied on
none other than Santa Fe on their Bx-38 on 2-1944. I mean...surely
Santa Fe
wouldn't lie...would they?
True, but bear in mind that the Bx-38s had been ordered months (or
during the war, perhaps even years) earlier, and the cars were in the
final stages of completion to the original specs. when the AAR
directive took effect. In fact, the Bx-43 class, delivered in 9-44,
also had wood running boards, as they were a continuation of the same
order and were identical to the Bx-38 class except that they had AAR
standard steel sheathed sides instead of composite single sheathed
sides. I'm sure there are many other examples of cars delivered in
1944 but ordered earlier which had wood running boards because that's
what the buyer specified when the order was placed.


Richard Hendrickson


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson notes:

True, but bear in mind that the Bx-38s had been ordered months (or
during the war, perhaps even years) earlier, and the cars were in the
final stages of completion to the original specs. when the AAR
directive took effect. In fact, the Bx-43 class, delivered in 9-44,
also had wood running boards, as they were a continuation of the same
order and were identical to the Bx-38 class except that they had AAR
standard steel sheathed sides instead of composite single sheathed
sides. I'm sure there are many other examples of cars delivered in
1944 but ordered earlier which had wood running boards because that's
what the buyer specified when the order was placed.
Having been in the employ of the federal gvt for 32.5 yrs I can certainly agree that the wood running boards were probably ordered long before the AAR proclamation. In fact, I would not be at all surprised if a gvt meeting during which wood running boards were specified for the Bx-38 were held in the same room one hour after the AAR issued its statement regarding metal roofs. But, of course, that isn't the point...

Mike Brock


Andy Carlson
 

As has been mentioned earlier, the Intermountain SP T&NO 12 panel offerings used
the 12 panel car originally tooled and released as a Great Northern box car.
Both GN and SP utilized 8-rung ladders on their 12 panel car sides, but only GN
used just 7 rungs on their ends because the bottom step was from a drop grab
iron. SP's cars used full 8 rungs on their ends, so that meant that the SP
Intermountain cars came with the wrong end-ladder configuration. Some kit
builders got an extra 8-rung ladder set to get the correct end ladder. In a more
perfect world, that would be unnecessary....

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


armprem2 <armprem2@...>
 

Didn't the DRG&W also have 12 panel cars?If so,where did they differ?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Carlson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:25 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Intermountain SP T&NO B-50-26 roof




As has been mentioned earlier, the Intermountain SP T&NO 12 panel offerings used
the 12 panel car originally tooled and released as a Great Northern box car.
Both GN and SP utilized 8-rung ladders on their 12 panel car sides, but only GN
used just 7 rungs on their ends because the bottom step was from a drop grab
iron. SP's cars used full 8 rungs on their ends, so that meant that the SP
Intermountain cars came with the wrong end-ladder configuration. Some kit
builders got an extra 8-rung ladder set to get the correct end ladder. In a more
perfect world, that would be unnecessary....

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA






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WaltGCox@...
 

Thanks Jim & Ed, I found the doors I was looking for using your link. Walt

In a message dated 3/31/2011 10:23:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
hawk0621@... writes:





On Mar 31, 2011, at 8:48 PM, _WaltGCox@... (mailto:WaltGCox@...)
wrote:

I am looking for some wide seam doors and tried to Google" Southwest
models" but the closest hit was for a 737 wrapped in a decal of a
(female)
model. Would anyone have their website or more of the company name?
Walt,
Southwest Scale Productions at _http://www.southwestscale.com/_
(http://www.southwestscale.com/)
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I have two of Ted's kits and along with the correct roofs (which were
extra) there are additional doors which have the wide seem.
Am I missing something with the doors?

Bill Pardie
On Mar 31, 2011, at 1:55 PM, cobrapsl@... wrote:


Mike,

The SP and the T&NO B-50-26's had straight panel roofs and metal
running boards. The running board manufacturers varied depending on
the builder and car series number. The real problem with the
Intermountain kit is that the end is really not correct ( I will get
some flak here) and that is why Culotta did his SP B-50-25 kit. One
of these kits with one of the Southwest (Dan Hall) Superior, or
interm Youngstown doors, is the most accurate way to get a B-50-26.
Then as has been ststed on this list, it will not be "dead on"
accurate as the IM kit is based on a Great Northern car.

Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: mike brock <brockm@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Mar 31, 2011 3:10 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Intermountain SP T&NO B-50-26 roof

The subject of this message has probably been discussed many times.
Fine.
It's going to be discussed again. Remember, I'm the only one at this
party
with a gun<G>.

OK. For Tony Thompson...although others are welcome to chime in. The
SP 12
panel B-50-26 box car. Intermountain has produced both the SP and T&NO
versions. The SP version has a panel roof and wood running board.
The T&NO
version has a diagonal roof and metal running board [ at least mine
does ].

Tony's excellent book on SP box cars, Vol 4 of his SP Freight Cars,
notes on
pg 303 that the B-50-27 had the first digonal roofs [presumably of
the 40 ft
SP box cars ]. Futhermore, Table 12-2 on pg 283 indicates a panel
roof. Do
we have a problem?

Mike Brock

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
I have two of Ted's kits and along with the correct roofs (which were extra) there are additional doors which have the wide seem.
Am I missing something with the doors?
They permit you to do the 1946 orders of B-50-25. They do not apply to B-50-26.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history