Missing Significant Frt Cars


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [ NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process. By definition [ for this message ], a "significant" frt car is one that appeared in relatively large numbers on American RRs...but not necessarily on ALL American RRs. Yes, that would include frt cars of all types. Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car. Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [ gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield, WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

mike brock wrote:
Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of a hopper that operated farther?
There are photos of Reading hoppers in Los Angeles. Hard to beat that.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Townsend
 

What else? How about a multi-dome tank car? (Actually, I think a multi-dome wine car would do well for all the same reasons pickle cars do well, and still be useful for the prototype-oriented among us.)

An AAR stock car with the proper roof?

Attention ye gods of contrariness: Here is something THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN: Enterprise GS gons. I'm going to go scratchbuild a bunch of them right now. You watching, gods of contrariness? And buy a bunch of brass ones. THESE NEVER WILL BE AVAILABLE IN PLASTIC. [OK, I've done all I can do to provoke the gods.]


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: mike brock <brockm@brevard.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Apr 12, 2011 3:27 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Missing Significant Frt Cars




Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process. By
definition [ for this message ], a "significant" frt car is one that
appeared in relatively large numbers on American RRs...but not necessarily
on ALL American RRs. Yes, that would include frt cars of all types.
Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay
offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Aley, Jeff A
 

Richard,

One of the corollaries to Murhpy’s Law (sic) is that “Washing your car to make it rain doesn’t work.”

Regards,

-Jeff

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of richtownsend@netscape.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 3:42 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Missing Significant Frt Cars


Attention ye gods of contrariness: Here is something THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN: Enterprise GS gons. I'm going to go scratchbuild a bunch of them right now. You watching, gods of contrariness? And buy a bunch of brass ones. THESE NEVER WILL BE AVAILABLE IN PLASTIC. [OK, I've done all I can do to provoke the gods.]

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


SHAY STARK
 

Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process.
The ARA XM-1 seems to me to fit the bill. Multipule roads and with a little creativity it could be developed with multipule ends, doors, roofs and underframes that would correctly match many cars and be acceptable standins for several others. I knwo I would end up purchasing quite a few.

GATX 1920's tank car aka Sunshine and even the X-3 should be considered since they were found everywhere. You can even paint a 6500 gal X-3 up Durango and Silverton and have an accurate paint scheme for the toy market.

Also I agree with the Enterprise GS Gondola.

Thanks

Shay Stark


William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Richard,

Nope! You have not done all you could do. Ya gots to build 'em also... Then -- and only then -- will we all be blessed with super detailed and accurate Enterprise GS gons.

Thanks in advance for your gallant efforts to improve the freight car availability for the rest of us.

Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA




On Apr 12, 2011, at 3:42 PM, richtownsend@netscape.net wrote:


What else? How about a multi-dome tank car? (Actually, I think a multi-dome wine car would do well for all the same reasons pickle cars do well, and still be useful for the prototype-oriented among us.)

An AAR stock car with the proper roof?

Attention ye gods of contrariness: Here is something THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN: Enterprise GS gons. I'm going to go scratchbuild a bunch of them right now. You watching, gods of contrariness? And buy a bunch of brass ones. THESE NEVER WILL BE AVAILABLE IN PLASTIC. [OK, I've done all I can do to provoke the gods.]

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: mike brock <brockm@brevard.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Apr 12, 2011 3:27 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Missing Significant Frt Cars

Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process. By
definition [ for this message ], a "significant" frt car is one that
appeared in relatively large numbers on American RRs...but not necessarily
on ALL American RRs. Yes, that would include frt cars of all types.
Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay
offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah... But I'd be shocked if a
good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!

There are at least a half dozen models of MILW rib side 40' box
cars in HO scale, and those don't exactly have dozens of paint
schemes either, do they?

Tim O'

Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process. By
definition [ for this message ], a "significant" frt car is one that
appeared in relatively large numbers on American RRs...but not necessarily
on ALL American RRs. Yes, that would include frt cars of all types.
Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay
offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock


Andy Harman
 

At 06:27 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?
I know you built an N&W H2a to run on Sherman Hill, but are you sure that
it wasn't supposed to be an H10? There are not that many freight cars that
are not available, that I need a lot of. That's one of them. Maybe if the
Sherman Hill modelers all get on board, we can get it done :-)

Andy


Andy Harman
 

At 06:42 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
What else? How about a multi-dome tank car? (Actually, I think a
multi-dome wine car would do well for all the same reasons pickle cars do
well, and still be useful for the prototype-oriented among us.)

Southern Car & Foundry has a 2-dome kit. Unless multi means more than two.

Who made a 6-dome wine car in plastic a long time ago, AHM? I have one -
mainly because my wife likes tank cars and picked it up at a show. I have
no idea if it represents any prototype.

Andy


Andy Harman
 

At 11:26 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah...
I remember Atlas running a certain tank car in "boring" paint schemes that
was impossible to get, and they claimed the billboards were more popular.
The boring paint was such a yawner that I got triple my money for an N
scale one I ebayed. It may be true that pretty paint sells, but accurate
and common paint also sells, even if it's not all that extravagant.

good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!
I'd buy three.

There are at least a half dozen models of MILW rib side 40' box
cars in HO scale, and those don't exactly have dozens of paint
schemes either, do they?
Depends on how far you go forward with your time machine, since these cars
lasted well beyond the boundaries of this list. Probably at least a dozen
variants to the Milwaukee scheme (taking into account what, 7 variants just
of the 40' car) and also at least two distinctly different base colors.

Andy


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Harman wrote:
Who made a 6-dome wine car in plastic a long time ago, AHM? I have one - mainly because my wife likes tank cars and picked it up at a show. I have no idea if it represents any prototype.
It's a dreadful model, Andy, way oversize (probably around double what it should be). Possibly AHM took a photo of a 6-dome car and blew it up to make it 40 feet long. Its capacity, if you measure it, is over 12,000 gallons, and the domes are still too big for the individual compartments. It's a "super foobie" IMO.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Yep, a real oinker. But if you cut out the domes, you might be
able to use them for a scratchbuilding project -- they have those
sharp cylindrical edges with a flat top, while most other models
represent the rounded edge, convex domes.

Tim O'

It's a dreadful model, Andy, way oversize (probably around
double what it should be). Possibly AHM took a photo of a 6-dome car
and blew it up to make it 40 feet long. Its capacity, if you measure
it, is over 12,000 gallons, and the domes are still too big for the
individual compartments. It's a "super foobie" IMO.

Tony Thompson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Yep, a real oinker. But if you cut out the domes, you might be able to use them for a scratchbuilding project -- they have those
sharp cylindrical edges with a flat top, while most other models represent the rounded edge, convex domes.
But that's just exactly the dome type that's easiest to scratchbuild. I've done so for multiple cars and have shown one of them on my blog. I can give a link to anyone interested.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I wish that I only could use three X-3 tanks!! More like a dozen, maybe?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Harman <gsgondola@...> wrote:

At 11:26 PM 4/12/2011 -0400, you wrote:
I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah...
I remember Atlas running a certain tank car in "boring" paint schemes that
was impossible to get, and they claimed the billboards were more popular.
The boring paint was such a yawner that I got triple my money for an N
scale one I ebayed. It may be true that pretty paint sells, but accurate
and common paint also sells, even if it's not all that extravagant.

good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!
I'd buy three.

Andy


Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I'e mentioned the IC two-and three-bay "alternate standard" hopper. As well as the Enterprise GS gon in 36' and 40' variants. Being a quasi-CN 1956-era modeller, those two come to mind immediately.

But then there are also the CN 503500-513499 series 40' seven-panel steel frame boxcars, which travelled all over North America. So, far there have been three resin kits in HO, and one in O.

All are IMHO, good candidates for RTR models, but I've been told how small fortunes are made in the model rail business. By starting with large ones...

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "mike brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process. By
definition [ for this message ], a "significant" frt car is one that
appeared in relatively large numbers on American RRs...but not necessarily
on ALL American RRs. Yes, that would include frt cars of all types.
Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay
offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock


leakinmywaders
 

Second. Some of us would buy half dozen or more X-3s in basic funeral black.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Mike

I think the car most likely to be seen on the prototype while
least likely to be seen on a model layout remains the UTLX X-3
tank car. We're always told blah blah it won't sell because it
is a boring paint scheme blah blah... But I'd be shocked if a
good injection molded X-3 couldn't sell 10,000 models. Heck,
if every subscriber to the STMFC bought only 3 of them, that
would be more than 5,000 models right there!

There are at least a half dozen models of MILW rib side 40' box
cars in HO scale, and those don't exactly have dozens of paint
schemes either, do they?

Tim O'



Somewhere in the multitude of comments about RTR non injection molding [
NIM ] frt cars was a suggestion that there might still be a significant frt
car that has NOT been done using the injection molding process...

















Hence...the obvious AAR Alternate Standard 2 bay offset side hopper car.
Hint: C&O had about 20,000 and they roamed all over states from Illinois to
Virginia, north to Michigan. Two were even filmed crossing Sherman Hill [
gasp! ]. I mean, even Santa Fe had them [ 200 ], NP, NKP, P&WV, Clinchfield,
WLE, and Erie [ strange RR...it didn't go through Erie but...did go through
Brockway so what's not to like? ]. What else? Well...how about a 4 bay
offset side AAR hopper car?

So...what else...other than the UP H-50-4?

Incidentally, MP hopper cars operated from California to WV. Anyone know of
a hopper that operated farther?

Mike Brock


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 12, 2011, at 9:56 PM, Andy Harman wrote:

Who made a 6-dome wine car in plastic a long time ago, AHM? I have
one -
mainly because my wife likes tank cars and picked it up at a show.
I have
no idea if it represents any prototype.
It doesn't, Andy, not even close AHM made it as a modified tank on
their 10,500 gal. "chemical car," a cheap copy of the inaccurate
Athearn "chemical car." So it's tank scales out to about S scale.
The 6 compartment wine tank cars built by both GATC and AC&F were
6,000 gal. cars with small diameter tanks.

Richard Hendrickson


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Andy Harman writes:

I know you built an N&W H2a to run on Sherman Hill, but are you sure that
it wasn't supposed to be an H10?
Well...there isn't much difference between an H2a and an H10. The H10 is 4" wider but the other dimensions are the same.

I'll be on the lookout for the N&W hopper and measure it.

Mike Brock


Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 11:57:22 -0400, mike brock wrote

Well...there isn't much difference between an H2a and an H10. The H10 is 4"
wider but the other dimensions are the same.
Nope. You can't make an H10 out of an H2a, if you could I'd already have a bunch of
kitbashes in the works. It's easier to scratch build it. Unfortunately I don't have
scale drawings of the H10.

http://www.gp30.com/events/lrm2004/lrm2004-038.jpg - on the left is Jim6's scratchbuilt
(actually a long discontinued styrene spaghetti kit) H10, on the right is a Broadway
H2a. Of course these are models but prototype photos reveal the same comparison. The
H10 sides are not as tall, it has a more "slender" profile if you will. One of those
things that is really hard to describe unless you can put the two side by side,
fortunately I had the opportunity at the 2004 LRM. Jim's is also the only model I've
ever seen of an H10, in any scale or material.

Andy


James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Here are some photos of the N&W H-10



http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/listdocs.php?index=rs&id=759&Type=Picture



And here are some photos of the N&W H-2a:



http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/listdocs.php?index=rs&id=80&Type=Picture



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Harman" <gsgondola@gp30.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:13:14 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Missing Significant Frt Cars

 




On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 11:57:22 -0400, mike brock wrote

Well...there isn't much difference between an H2a and an H10. The H10 is 4"
wider but the other dimensions are the same.
Nope. You can't make an H10 out of an H2a, if you could I'd already have a bunch of
kitbashes in the works. It's easier to scratch build it. Unfortunately I don't have
scale drawings of the H10.

http://www.gp30.com/events/lrm2004/lrm2004-038.jpg - on the left is Jim6's scratchbuilt
(actually a long discontinued styrene spaghetti kit) H10, on the right is a Broadway
H2a. Of course these are models but prototype photos reveal the same comparison. The
H10 sides are not as tall, it has a more "slender" profile if you will. One of those
things that is really hard to describe unless you can put the two side by side,
fortunately I had the opportunity at the 2004 LRM. Jim's is also the only model I've
ever seen of an H10, in any scale or material.

Andy