Date
1 - 20 of 31
Kadee Trucks
Richard Hendrickson
Here's a heads-up on what I regard as an important development.
In exchange for some prototype information I provided, Sam Clarke at Kadee has very kindly sent me some samples of their newest HGC self- centering trucks. As many of you know, Kadee is engaged in a continuing effort to replace their older sprung trucks with new trucks molded in HGC material with the springs molded integral with the side frames. The latest results of this effort are: #567 50 ton National B-1 (33" ribbed back wheels), #568 50 ton National B-1 (33" smooth back wheels), #569 100 ton Roller Bearing (36" smooth back wheels), #570 70 ton Barber S-2 Roller Bearing (33" smooth back wheels), and #583 Arch Bar Caboose w. Leaf Springs (33" ribbed back wheels). These new trucks are all superb representations of the prototype trucks, with full brake shoes and rigging and Kadee's patented frame construction, which provides both self-equalization to help keep them on uneven track and self centering so that the trucks will automatically line up with the track when car is picked up. The HGC material is both tough and slippery, and in my informal tests the new trucks are exceptionally free rolling. Wheel sets are Kadee's familiar cast metal on nylon axles and the wheels are code 110 profile, but I understand Kadee is thinking seriously about possibly producing code 88 semi-scale wheel sets as well. Mounting screws are provided. List price on all of them is $8.95. For steam era modelers, the National B-1 trucks are especially appealing, as they are exceptionally well detailed including "daylight" around the bolster ends and cast-on lettering on the side frames. Some of us can certainly use the leaf-spring Arch Bar caboose trucks as well, whose side frames are much thinner and closer to scale than most other HO scale arch bars. I was about to put a pair of Proto 2000 National B-1s on a Monon AAR 1937 spec. box car, but now that I have them the Kadees are definitely going on this model. Richard Hendrickson
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Paul Lyons
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
I was about to put a pair of Proto 2000 National B-1s on a Monon AAR 1937 spec. box car, but now that I have them the Kadees are definitely going on this model. OK Richard I will bite! Why is the Kadee truck so much nicer than the Proto 2000 National B-1? Seems like only yesterday that we all thought we had died and gone to Heaven when Proto 2000 had introduced that truck! Paul Lyons -----
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Andy Carlson
Paul, maybe because the P2K truck is NOT a National B-1, but rather a National
B. -Andy Carlson Ojai CA Paul Lyons wrote: OK Richard I will bite! Why is the Kadee truck so much nicer than the Proto 2000 National B-1? Seems like only yesterday that we all thought we had died and gone to Heaven when Proto 2000 had introduced that truck! Paul Lyons . _,_._,___
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Richard Hendrickson
On Apr 13, 2011, at 3:57 PM, cobrapsl@... wrote:
Richard Hendrickson wrote:Much sharper and more precise detail on the side frames, Paul, plus complete brake rigging. The self-equalizing and self-tracking features are very nice, as well. And you're hearing this from one of the guys who persuaded Life-Like to do the Proto 2000 National B-1, which was a very nice truck by the standards of fifteen years ago. Of course, we now have the Athearn National B-1 as well, which isn't shabby either. Years ago, I had to solder together my first National B-1s from old Red Ball parts. In fact, the car I made them for still has them, though they are scheduled for replacement. I'm going through all of my older equipment a bit at a time replacing trucks where appropriate, changing wheelsets to code 88, and changing #5 couplers to #58s. Those who say the hobby is going to hell in a handcart are clueless; it's just changing, mostly for the better. Richard Hendrickson
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brianleppert@att.net
The P2K and Kadee trucks are two different prototypes.
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P2K's model represents the National Type B. This was introduced in the early 1930s and produced until about 1940. It was superceded by National's Type B-1. This change took place about 1940-1942. Santa Fe's Rr-29 reefers were built mid-1940 with B-1s, but I think that there were other cars delivered after that still with plain Type Bs. The major spotting difference is the bolster end. The later B-1 had the bottom of the bolster end parallel with the top. On the earlier Type B, the sides of the bolster end tapered up towards the top. Other differences included side frame shape, beading and, on the B-1, "Dual Control" features. In the CBCs, National calls their newer truck a "B-1", but the raised lettering on the prototype side frames can be "Type B-1". Athearn made a B-1. Kadee's new truck is the Unit Truck version of the B-1. So both P2K and Kadee trucks will be usable under the proper cars. Brian Leppert Tahoe Model Works Carson City, NV
--- In STMFC@..., cobrapsl@... wrote:
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Paul Lyons
Thanks Richard, Paul Lyons
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-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:42 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] Kadee Trucks On Apr 13, 2011, at 3:57 PM, cobrapsl@... wrote: Richard Hendrickson wrote:Much sharper and more precise detail on the side frames, Paul, plus complete brake rigging. The self-equalizing and self-tracking features are very nice, as well. And you're hearing this from one of the guys who persuaded Life-Like to do the Proto 2000 National B-1, which was a very nice truck by the standards of fifteen years ago. Of course, we now have the Athearn National B-1 as well, which isn't shabby either. Years ago, I had to solder together my first National B-1s from old Red Ball parts. In fact, the car I made them for still has them, though they are scheduled for replacement. I'm going through all of my older equipment a bit at a time replacing trucks where appropriate, changing wheelsets to code 88, and changing #5 couplers to #58s. Those who say the hobby is going to hell in a handcart are clueless; it's just changing, mostly for the better. Richard Hendrickson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Paul Lyons
Thanks Brian, I will now be forever confused as to weather I need a Proto 2000 Type B, or a Kadee Type B-1 under my models requiring that type truck!!
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Paul Lyons
-----Original Message-----
From: brianleppert@... <brianleppert@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:27 pm Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kadee Trucks The P2K and Kadee trucks are two different prototypes. P2K's model represents the National Type B. This was introduced in the early 1930s and produced until about 1940. It was superceded by National's Type B-1. This change took place about 1940-1942. Santa Fe's Rr-29 reefers were built mid-1940 with B-1s, but I think that there were other cars delivered after that still with plain Type Bs. The major spotting difference is the bolster end. The later B-1 had the bottom of the bolster end parallel with the top. On the earlier Type B, the sides of the bolster end tapered up towards the top. Other differences included side frame shape, beading and, on the B-1, "Dual Control" features. In the CBCs, National calls their newer truck a "B-1", but the raised lettering on the prototype side frames can be "Type B-1". Athearn made a B-1. Kadee's new truck is the Unit Truck version of the B-1. So both P2K and Kadee trucks will be usable under the proper cars. Brian Leppert Tahoe Model Works Carson City, NV --- In STMFC@..., cobrapsl@... wrote:
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Hi,
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As long as we are talking about Kadee trucks ... Has any one found a non-Kadee wheelset that works well in a Kadee truck? - Tired of changing out worn out nylon axles - the point wears out and you have to change out the entire axle including the wheels ... Jim
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Jim Betz wrote:
Has any one found a non-Kadee wheelset that works well in a Kadee truck?I have put Reboxx 0.088 wheelsets in a couple pairs of Kadees and it works fine so far. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Andy Harman
At 10:19 PM 4/13/2011 -0700, you wrote:
I have used Reboxx wheel sets successfully in Kadee trucks. Be aware they are insulated on only one side so you will need to make sure both axles are oriented the same direction. I just measured a Kadee axle at about 1.015" so a Reboxx axle of about that length should work nicely. I haven't had a lot of trouble with Kadee axles wearing out, but I have replaced them in open ended cars (tank cars, hoppers, etc) with code 88 wheels for better appearance, hence the Reboxx. Andy
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Andy Harman wrote:
I have used Reboxx wheel sets successfully in Kadee trucks. Be aware they are insulated on only one side so you will need to make sure both axles are oriented the same direction.Actually, Andy, they make both one-side and two-side axle insulations. You choose when you buy. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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I usually use .088 Reboxx as well. But one thing I've noticed with
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Kadee/Proto/Branchline wheels is that they do not perform equally. I usually get better rolling performance with P2K wheels than with Kadee. The axles are not made exactly alike and may use different material. Kinda moot now... the HGC trucks are just so much better, than I hope I can eventually trade up to those and sell the metal Kadee trucks on Ebay. Tim O'
I have used Reboxx wheel sets successfully in Kadee trucks. Be aware they
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Rossiter, Mark W <Mark.Rossiter@...>
Reboxx wheelsets are by far the best I have used, in any type of
sideframe. I suspect that part of the reason for their success is the needle point axle has a much, much smaller surface area than a Kadee axle, meaning less opportunity for friction (resistance), as minute as it might be. I replaced the caboose trucks on a few of my older brass models with the swing-motion trucks Kadee now offers in their HCG material. I was concerned about using double insulated axles versus single-insulated axles, but it turns out I had nothing to worry about. The new HCG material is not conductive like Kadee's traditional metal sideframe trucks are. Single insulated axles work just fine. - - Mark
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Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
I've tried a couple pair of the recent Kadee trucks, and I like them as much as Richard does. I've replaced the wheelsets, however, because I prefer a combination of metal axles and "code 88" wheels. - Andy
Andy Sperandeo Executive Editor Model Railroader magazine asperandeo@... 262-796-8776, ext. 461 FAX 262-796-1142
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Richard Hendrickson
On Apr 13, 2011, at 9:09 PM, cobrapsl@... wrote:
Thanks Brian, I will now be forever confused as to weather I need aRelax, Paul. Brian is entirely correct, but the differences are very subtle and often impossible to see in prototype photos. Most viewers, even on this list, will never be able to tell whether your model has National Type Bs or National Type B-1s. My advice is to use what you have or - if you're buying new trucks - go with the Kadees because of their excellent brake shoes and rigging, equalization, and self-centering. Richard Hendrickson
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Paul Lyons
Richard,
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Just teasing my buddy Brian, who has a way of twisting my mind around when it comes to freight car trucks! Paul Lyons
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 10:03 am Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Kadee Trucks On Apr 13, 2011, at 9:09 PM, cobrapsl@... wrote: Thanks Brian, I will now be forever confused as to weather I need aRelax, Paul. Brian is entirely correct, but the differences are very subtle and often impossible to see in prototype photos. Most viewers, even on this list, will never be able to tell whether your model has National Type Bs or National Type B-1s. My advice is to use what you have or - if you're buying new trucks - go with the Kadees because of their excellent brake shoes and rigging, equalization, and self-centering. Richard Hendrickson
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WILLIAM PARDIE
So now we have the Proto 2000 Type B and the Kadee Type B-1. Does the
Athern truck represent a true B-1? Thanks: Bill Pardie On Apr 14, 2011, at 7:03 AM, Richard Hendrickson wrote: On Apr 13, 2011, at 9:09 PM, cobrapsl@... wrote:Thanks Brian, I will now be forever confused as to weather I need aRelax, Paul. Brian is entirely correct, but the differences are very [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Richard Hendrickson
On Apr 13, 2011, at 10:19 PM, Jim Betz wrote:
Hi,Jim, you must run your freight cars a lot more than I do; I've never had a Kadee axle wear out. However, I just put a pair of Northwest Short Line Code 88 wheelsets into one of new Kadee trucks and it rolls every bit as well as it did with the original wheelsets. Richard Hendrickson
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Andy Harman
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:09:20 -0700, Richard Hendrickson wrote
Jim, you must run your freight cars a lot more than I do; I've neverI've never had one wear out either, and I have some which date back to the late 1970s although those are on old bluebox cars and they probably haven't been run much in the last 20 years. Wear yes, wear out no - I will have to find some high-milers and examine the axle points to see if there is visible wear or not. Andy
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At a train club I belonged to, MANY cars with Kadee wheels (mostly in
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non-Kadee sideframes) wore down the ends of the axles to a round nub! In a high-use context, metal axles last longer. Also sintered wheels like Kadee etc seem to pick up crud more easily -- we sometimes had to scrape a layer of stuff from the wheel treads with an X-Acto blade! If we didn't do that, the wheels would redeposit the crud on the track. But yeah, on a private low-mileage layout, it's probably not an issue. I'm waiting for Kadee .088 equipped trucks before I buy any more. No way I'm paying for wheels twice anymore. Tim O'Connor
Jim, you must run your freight cars a lot more than I do; I've never
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