Here's a heads-up on what I regard as an important development.

In exchange for some prototype information I provided, Sam Clarke at
Kadee has very kindly sent me some samples of their newest HGC self-
centering trucks. As many of you know, Kadee is engaged in a
continuing effort to replace their older sprung trucks with new
trucks molded in HGC material with the springs molded integral with
the side frames. The latest results of this effort are: #567 50
ton National B-1 (33" ribbed back wheels), #568 50 ton National B-1
(33" smooth back wheels), #569 100 ton Roller Bearing (36" smooth
back wheels), #570 70 ton Barber S-2 Roller Bearing (33" smooth back
wheels), and #583 Arch Bar Caboose w. Leaf Springs (33" ribbed back
wheels).

These new trucks are all superb representations of the prototype
trucks, with full brake shoes and rigging and Kadee's patented frame
construction, which provides both self-equalization to help keep them
on uneven track and self centering so that the trucks will
automatically line up with the track when car is picked up. The HGC
material is both tough and slippery, and in my informal tests the new
trucks are exceptionally free rolling. Wheel sets are Kadee's
familiar cast metal on nylon axles and the wheels are code 110
profile, but I understand Kadee is thinking seriously about possibly
producing code 88 semi-scale wheel sets as well. Mounting screws are
provided. List price on all of them is $8.95.

For steam era modelers, the National B-1 trucks are especially
appealing, as they are exceptionally well detailed including
"daylight" around the bolster ends and cast-on lettering on the side
frames. Some of us can certainly use the leaf-spring Arch Bar
caboose trucks as well, whose side frames are much thinner and closer
to scale than most other HO scale arch bars. I was about to put a
pair of Proto 2000 National B-1s on a Monon AAR 1937 spec. box car,
but now that I have them the Kadees are definitely going on this model.

Richard Hendrickson

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

I was about to put a
pair of Proto 2000 National B-1s on a Monon AAR 1937 spec. box car,
but now that I have them the Kadees are definitely going on this model.



OK Richard I will bite! Why is the Kadee truck so much nicer than the Proto 2000 National B-1? Seems like only yesterday that we all thought we had died and gone to Heaven when Proto 2000 had introduced that truck!

Paul Lyons






-----

Paul, maybe because the P2K truck is NOT a National B-1, but rather a National
B.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





Paul Lyons wrote:


OK Richard I will bite! Why is the Kadee truck so much nicer than the Proto 2000
National B-1? Seems like only yesterday that we all thought we had died and gone
to Heaven when Proto 2000 had introduced that truck!

Paul Lyons

.
_,_._,___

On Apr 13, 2011, at 3:57 PM, cobrapsl@aol.com wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

I was about to put a
pair of Proto 2000 National B-1s on a Monon AAR 1937 spec. box car,
but now that I have them the Kadees are definitely going on this
model.



OK Richard I will bite! Why is the Kadee truck so much nicer than
the Proto 2000 National B-1? Seems like only yesterday that we all
thought we had died and gone to Heaven when Proto 2000 had
introduced that truck!

Paul Lyons

Much sharper and more precise detail on the side frames, Paul, plus
complete brake rigging. The self-equalizing and self-tracking
features are very nice, as well. And you're hearing this from one of
the guys who persuaded Life-Like to do the Proto 2000 National B-1,
which was a very nice truck by the standards of fifteen years ago.
Of course, we now have the Athearn National B-1 as well, which isn't
shabby either. Years ago, I had to solder together my first National
B-1s from old Red Ball parts. In fact, the car I made them for still
has them, though they are scheduled for replacement. I'm going
through all of my older equipment a bit at a time replacing trucks
where appropriate, changing wheelsets to code 88, and changing #5
couplers to #58s. Those who say the hobby is going to hell in a
handcart are clueless; it's just changing, mostly for the better.

Richard Hendrickson

The P2K and Kadee trucks are two different prototypes.

P2K's model represents the National Type B. This was introduced in the early 1930s and produced until about 1940. It was superceded by National's Type B-1.

This change took place about 1940-1942. Santa Fe's Rr-29 reefers were built mid-1940 with B-1s, but I think that there were other cars delivered after that still with plain Type Bs.

The major spotting difference is the bolster end. The later B-1 had the bottom of the bolster end parallel with the top. On the earlier Type B, the sides of the bolster end tapered up towards the top.

Other differences included side frame shape, beading and, on the B-1, "Dual Control" features.

In the CBCs, National calls their newer truck a "B-1", but the raised lettering on the prototype side frames can be "Type B-1".

Athearn made a B-1. Kadee's new truck is the Unit Truck version of the B-1.

So both P2K and Kadee trucks will be usable under the proper cars.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

Thanks Richard, Paul Lyons

Thanks Brian, I will now be forever confused as to weather I need a Proto 2000 Type B, or a Kadee Type B-1 under my models requiring that type truck!!
Paul Lyons

Hi,

As long as we are talking about Kadee trucks ...

Has any one found a non-Kadee wheelset that works well
in a Kadee truck?

- Tired of changing out worn out nylon axles - the point
wears out and you have to change out the entire axle
including the wheels
... Jim

Jim Betz wrote:

Has any one found a non-Kadee wheelset that works well in a Kadee truck?

I have put Reboxx 0.088 wheelsets in a couple pairs of Kadees and it works fine so far.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

At 10:19 PM 4/13/2011 -0700, you wrote:

Has any one found a non-Kadee wheelset that works well
in a Kadee truck?

I have used Reboxx wheel sets successfully in Kadee trucks. Be aware they
are insulated on only one side so you will need to make sure both axles are
oriented the same direction. I just measured a Kadee axle at about 1.015"
so a Reboxx axle of about that length should work nicely. I haven't had a
lot of trouble with Kadee axles wearing out, but I have replaced them in
open ended cars (tank cars, hoppers, etc) with code 88 wheels for better
appearance, hence the Reboxx.

Andy

- Tired of changing out worn out nylon axles - the point
wears out and you have to change out the entire axle
including the wheels
... Jim

________________________________________________________________________
8a. Kadee Trucks
Posted by: "Richard Hendrickson" rhendrickson@opendoor.com n1605g
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:16 pm ((PDT))

Here's a heads-up on what I regard as an important development.

Snip

Wheel sets are Kadee's
familiar cast metal on nylon axles and the wheels are code 110
profile, but I understand Kadee is thinking seriously about possibly
producing code 88 semi-scale wheel sets as well.

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Andy Harman wrote:

I have used Reboxx wheel sets successfully in Kadee trucks. Be aware they are insulated on only one side so you will need to make sure both axles are oriented the same direction.

Actually, Andy, they make both one-side and two-side axle insulations. You choose when you buy.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

I usually use .088 Reboxx as well. But one thing I've noticed with
Kadee/Proto/Branchline wheels is that they do not perform equally. I
usually get better rolling performance with P2K wheels than with Kadee.
The axles are not made exactly alike and may use different material.

Kinda moot now... the HGC trucks are just so much better, than I hope
I can eventually trade up to those and sell the metal Kadee trucks on
Ebay.

Tim O'

Reboxx wheelsets are by far the best I have used, in any type of
sideframe. I suspect that part of the reason for their success is the
needle point axle has a much, much smaller surface area than a Kadee
axle, meaning less opportunity for friction (resistance), as minute as
it might be. I replaced the caboose trucks on a few of my older brass
models with the swing-motion trucks Kadee now offers in their HCG
material. I was concerned about using double insulated axles versus
single-insulated axles, but it turns out I had nothing to worry about.
The new HCG material is not conductive like Kadee's traditional metal
sideframe trucks are. Single insulated axles work just fine.



- - Mark

I've tried a couple pair of the recent Kadee trucks, and I like them as much as Richard does. I've replaced the wheelsets, however, because I prefer a combination of metal axles and "code 88" wheels. - Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142

On Apr 13, 2011, at 9:09 PM, cobrapsl@aol.com wrote:

Thanks Brian, I will now be forever confused as to weather I need a
Proto 2000 Type B, or a Kadee Type B-1 under my models requiring
that type truck!!
Paul Lyons

Relax, Paul. Brian is entirely correct, but the differences are very
subtle and often impossible to see in prototype photos. Most
viewers, even on this list, will never be able to tell whether your
model has National Type Bs or National Type B-1s. My advice is to
use what you have or - if you're buying new trucks - go with the
Kadees because of their excellent brake shoes and rigging,
equalization, and self-centering.

Richard Hendrickson

Richard,

Just teasing my buddy Brian, who has a way of twisting my mind around when it comes to freight car trucks!

Paul Lyons

So now we have the Proto 2000 Type B and the Kadee Type B-1. Does the
Athern truck represent a true B-1?

Thanks:

Bill Pardie

On Apr 14, 2011, at 7:03 AM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Apr 13, 2011, at 9:09 PM, cobrapsl@aol.com wrote:

Thanks Brian, I will now be forever confused as to weather I need a
Proto 2000 Type B, or a Kadee Type B-1 under my models requiring
that type truck!!
Paul Lyons

Relax, Paul. Brian is entirely correct, but the differences are very
subtle and often impossible to see in prototype photos. Most
viewers, even on this list, will never be able to tell whether your
model has National Type Bs or National Type B-1s. My advice is to
use what you have or - if you're buying new trucks - go with the
Kadees because of their excellent brake shoes and rigging,
equalization, and self-centering.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 13, 2011, at 10:19 PM, Jim Betz wrote:

Hi,

As long as we are talking about Kadee trucks ...

Has any one found a non-Kadee wheelset that works well
in a Kadee truck?

- Tired of changing out worn out nylon axles - the point
wears out and you have to change out the entire axle
including the wheels

Jim, you must run your freight cars a lot more than I do; I've never
had a Kadee axle wear out. However, I just put a pair of Northwest
Short Line Code 88 wheelsets into one of new Kadee trucks and it
rolls every bit as well as it did with the original wheelsets.

Richard Hendrickson

On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:09:20 -0700, Richard Hendrickson wrote

Jim, you must run your freight cars a lot more than I do; I've never
had a Kadee axle wear out.

I've never had one wear out either, and I have some which date back to the late 1970s
although those are on old bluebox cars and they probably haven't been run much in the
last 20 years. Wear yes, wear out no - I will have to find some high-milers and examine
the axle points to see if there is visible wear or not.

Andy

At a train club I belonged to, MANY cars with Kadee wheels (mostly in
non-Kadee sideframes) wore down the ends of the axles to a round nub!
In a high-use context, metal axles last longer. Also sintered wheels
like Kadee etc seem to pick up crud more easily -- we sometimes had to
scrape a layer of stuff from the wheel treads with an X-Acto blade!
If we didn't do that, the wheels would redeposit the crud on the track.

But yeah, on a private low-mileage layout, it's probably not an issue.

I'm waiting for Kadee .088 equipped trucks before I buy any more. No
way I'm paying for wheels twice anymore.

Tim O'Connor