Topics

Rivets


Ed <nprybiged@...>
 

In building a scale model of rolling stock you have no dought
delt with Archer Rivets.

Well, today I received my Micro-Mark order of their new product,
No.84985, HO scale Riverts. I was BLOWN AWAY. For a introductory
offer of $9.95 (Reg. $14.95) plus $4.95 Shipping which ends
Jun 13, 2011 you get TWO sheets, 6 1/2" x 10", of rivets, that's
a total of 118 SQ. INCHES.

Each sheet contains 16 GROUPS of different spacing, that includes
20 rolls of double lined for Tank cars, TWO groupings of curved
and circle patterns, FOUR groupings of louvers and FOUR groupings
of grillwork.

Needless to say, NO in my opinion, that beats Archer, HANDS DOWN.

Ed Uresm


Jack Burgess
 

I think you will get what you pay for. I've seen a closeup of the MM rivets and they in no way compare to the Archer rivets. They might look okay initially but you might very well be disappointed after painting. If you feel they will be okay, go ahead and buy a sheet but I'd suggest applying them to a piece of styrene and then painting them...it would be frustrating to use them, paint the model, and then find out that they lack relief.

Jack Burgess

On May 14, 2011, at 4:46 PM, "Ed" <nprybiged@comcast.net> wrote:


In building a scale model of rolling stock you have no dought
delt with Archer Rivets.

Well, today I received my Micro-Mark order of their new product,
No.84985, HO scale Riverts. I was BLOWN AWAY. For a introductory
offer of $9.95 (Reg. $14.95) plus $4.95 Shipping which ends
Jun 13, 2011 you get TWO sheets, 6 1/2" x 10", of rivets, that's
a total of 118 SQ. INCHES.

Each sheet contains 16 GROUPS of different spacing, that includes
20 rolls of double lined for Tank cars, TWO groupings of curved
and circle patterns, FOUR groupings of louvers and FOUR groupings
of grillwork.

Needless to say, NO in my opinion, that beats Archer, HANDS DOWN.

Ed Uresm




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Tim O'Connor
 

Also, Archer rivets come in many sizes. The Micro Mark web page doesn't
specify any details (rivet-rivet spacing, rivet size) that would seem to
be vitally important to modelers!

http://www.micromark.com/HO-Scale-Surface-Detail-Rivet-Decals,9968.html

Tim O'Connor

At 5/14/2011 08:44 PM Saturday, you wrote:
I think you will get what you pay for. I've seen a closeup of the MM rivets and they in no way compare to the Archer rivets. They might look okay initially but you might very well be disappointed after painting. If you feel they will be okay, go ahead and buy a sheet but I'd suggest applying them to a piece of styrene and then painting them...it would be frustrating to use them, paint the model, and then find out that they lack relief.

Jack Burgess


Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

To amplify on Jack's comment:

I think the issue with the MM stuff is that the
black overprint is nice and sharp... it looks great on the sheet,
The problem in that the clear raised resin
portion is... How can I say this? "blobby?"
This may be a minor issue on rivets... but a big
problem on louvers and grillwork.

This could be a short term QC problem... or an
issue with the process they have chosen.

As the French say: "chacun à son goût".

Richard

At 05:44 PM 5/14/2011, Jack Burgess wrote:
I think you will get what you pay for. I've seen
a closeup of the MM rivets and they in no way
compare to the Archer rivets. They might look
okay initially but you might very well be
disappointed after painting. If you feel they
will be okay, go ahead and buy a sheet but I'd
suggest applying them to a piece of styrene and
then painting them...it would be frustrating to
use them, paint the model, and then find out that they lack relief.

Jack Burgess


mforsyth127
 

Jack Burgess wrote:

I think you will get what you pay for. I've seen a closeup of the MM rivets and they in no way compare to the Archer rivets. They might look okay initially but you might very well be disappointed after painting. If you feel they will be okay, go ahead and buy a sheet but I'd suggest applying them to a piece of styrene and then painting them...it would be frustrating to use them, paint the model, and then find out that they lack relief.


Group,

Jack is TOTALLY spot-on here.

There has been some recent discussion about the new MicroMark rivets, and their very reasonable pricing.

I do a lot of scratch and custom building for myself and others, and thought I'd lend my 2cents, based on personal observations.

What MM is putting out looks great on the sheet to the naked eye, but if you look more closely, you might just be dismayed. After application to the model and once painted (as Jack mentioned), the issues with the product will be come obvious.

The black areas on the sheet appear to be crisp and well defined, the result of a simple printing of black ink. However, the thing that gives a product like this depth and dimension is the clear placed on top, and therein lies the problem.

There is no precision application of the clear top-coat on top of the printed image, just random puddles that are clearly visible on their tread plate and can also be seen on the rivets.

I have made a close up scan of the product, that I have posted on my website. I did not include the link in the post, as I would then have to wait for approval. If you wish to see the MM product up close, please contact me directly, mforsyth127 at yahoo dot com, and I will provide you with the URL.

Tougher to see in the scan is that their louvers are only partially covered by random puddles of clear, resulting in just randomly shaped, raised areas.

As I said, looks great on the sheet, and with the black base color printed below, your eyes will be tricked into thinking that the details are sharp, but once a colored top coat is applied, and the black printed base disappears, what you'll then see are just poorly defined random blobs and puddles.

Given what I have observed, I think I'll be sticking with Archer.

Just an FYI...

Thanks,

Matt Forsyth
Modeling the D&H Penn Division
Erie Jefferson Division
in Proto 5-0, late summer of 1950


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

I emailed Woody of Archer because I have worked with him on several projects and asked him if we wanted to say anything about the Micro Mark product. He replied:

Dear Kurt,


Archer is a small, family owned and operated business that pioneered the process of producing resin objects onto clear decal film in 2007 and we have been marketing these products continuously since then. Our resin products are precise scale, researched and approved by knowledgable modelers to meet their highest quality standards. Archer will not compromise on quality and will continue to serve the modeling community by expanding our selection of resin details on a regular basis.


Archer's resin details are produced using a proprietary process. We do not license our process to any other company or individual. Archer's resin details are manufactured in our facility in the United States and we must conform to strict government and environmental regulations particularly those regarding the use and disposal of hazardous materials. Our production costs are very high and this is reflected in the price.


Archer fully understands that our level of dedication and quality may exceed the needs of the casual modeler and respects the freedom of all consumers to spend their money as they wish.


Archer is proud to be an innovator and participant in a free market society and I hope my comments address your concerns.


Best wishes,


Woody Vondracek, owner
ARCHER FINE TRANSFERS

He also sent along a blow-up of one of the MM sets and it is exactly as others have noted: Cleanly applied black ink patterns over what appears to be more or less random gobs of a clear material. It would be interesting if the fellow who was so impressed with the MM product would show photos of the applied and painted "details", along with his opinion of the results.

KL


naptownprr
 

From this I surmise that, once again, you get what you pay for.

Jim

Quoting Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@verizon.net>:

I emailed Woody of Archer because I have worked with him on several
projects and asked him if we wanted to say anything about the Micro
Mark product. He replied:

Dear Kurt,


Archer is a small, family owned and operated business that pioneered
the process of producing resin objects onto clear decal film in 2007
and we have been marketing these products continuously since then.
Our resin products are precise scale, researched and approved by
knowledgable modelers to meet their highest quality standards. Archer
will not compromise on quality and will continue to serve the
modeling community by expanding our selection of resin details on a
regular basis.


Archer's resin details are produced using a proprietary process. We
do not license our process to any other company or individual.
Archer's resin details are manufactured in our facility in the United
States and we must conform to strict government and environmental
regulations particularly those regarding the use and disposal of
hazardous materials. Our production costs are very high and this is
reflected in the price.


Archer fully understands that our level of dedication and quality may
exceed the needs of the casual modeler and respects the freedom of
all consumers to spend their money as they wish.


Archer is proud to be an innovator and participant in a free market
society and I hope my comments address your concerns.


Best wishes,


Woody Vondracek, owner
ARCHER FINE TRANSFERS

He also sent along a blow-up of one of the MM sets and it is exactly
as others have noted: Cleanly applied black ink patterns over what
appears to be more or less random gobs of a clear material. It would
be interesting if the fellow who was so impressed with the MM product
would show photos of the applied and painted "details", along with
his opinion of the results.

KL



Aley, Jeff A
 

Matt,

URL's do not have to be approved by the STMFC Moderators. On the other hand, if you were to upload the images directly to STMFC, they would have to be approved.

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Deputy Moderator, STMFC


From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 7:20 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Rivets



Jack Burgess wrote:

I think you will get what you pay for. I've seen a closeup of the MM rivets and they in no way compare to the Archer rivets. They might look okay initially but you might very well be disappointed after painting. If you feel they will be okay, go ahead and buy a sheet but I'd suggest applying them to a piece of styrene and then painting them...it would be frustrating to use them, paint the model, and then find out that they lack relief.
Group,

Jack is TOTALLY spot-on here.

There has been some recent discussion about the new MicroMark rivets, and their very reasonable pricing.

I do a lot of scratch and custom building for myself and others, and thought I'd lend my 2cents, based on personal observations.

What MM is putting out looks great on the sheet to the naked eye, but if you look more closely, you might just be dismayed. After application to the model and once painted (as Jack mentioned), the issues with the product will be come obvious.

The black areas on the sheet appear to be crisp and well defined, the result of a simple printing of black ink. However, the thing that gives a product like this depth and dimension is the clear placed on top, and therein lies the problem.

There is no precision application of the clear top-coat on top of the printed image, just random puddles that are clearly visible on their tread plate and can also be seen on the rivets.

I have made a close up scan of the product, that I have posted on my website. I did not include the link in the post, as I would then have to wait for approval. If you wish to see the MM product up close, please contact me directly, mforsyth127 at yahoo dot com, and I will provide you with the URL.

Tougher to see in the scan is that their louvers are only partially covered by random puddles of clear, resulting in just randomly shaped, raised areas.

As I said, looks great on the sheet, and with the black base color printed below, your eyes will be tricked into thinking that the details are sharp, but once a colored top coat is applied, and the black printed base disappears, what you'll then see are just poorly defined random blobs and puddles.

Given what I have observed, I think I'll be sticking with Archer.

Just an FYI...

Thanks,

Matt Forsyth
Modeling the D&H Penn Division
Erie Jefferson Division
in Proto 5-0, late summer of 1950