"Oil Car" lettering on UP tank cars


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Speaking of tank cars [ this must be tank car month ], does anyone know of an HO scale decal that includes "OIL CAR"...in Gothic font as applied to various UP tank cars? I am decaling a Challenger [ models ] brass 8K tank car, built by GATC in 1917. The letters "OIL CAR" were applied to the end of the tank.

Thanks

Mike Brock


Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

Gothic??? The builder photos I've seen show Roman letters.

Microscale MC-4079

Tim O'

At 6/27/2011 08:46 PM Monday, you wrote:
Speaking of tank cars [ this must be tank car month ], does anyone know of
an HO scale decal that includes "OIL CAR"...in Gothic font as applied to
various UP tank cars? I am decaling a Challenger [ models ] brass 8K tank
car, built by GATC in 1917. The letters "OIL CAR" were applied to the end of
the tank.

Thanks

Mike Brock


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes:


Gothic??? The builder photos I've seen show Roman letters.

Microscale MC-4079
Well, the builder's photos would show Roman in 1917...when the car in question was built. In fact, AFAIK all UP tank cars in existence in 1953...it is 1953, isn't it?...were built prior to 1938 so all builder's photos of UP tank cars would show Roman lettering. In 1939 UP changed its letter style to Gothic.

Incidentally, there is an end photo of a UP tank car in Laramie with "Oil Car" lettering in Gothic on pg 104 of Union Pacific Across Sherman Hill.

Mike Brock


Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

Ok. I know the O-50-6 got Roman lettering (built in 1937) and I've
never seen a photo of a UP tank car with Gothic "oil car" lettering.
It sounds like you may have spotted a rare case. According to Terry's
book, the O-50-6's were repainted 1952-1956 with Gothic lettering as
shown in the book -- sans "oil car". I don't know about repaints of
earlier classes.

On the other hand, I would think the Roman version was still around
in your modeling era -- 1953/1954 right? Maybe someone on the UP list
would know more about it?

Tim O'

Gothic??? The builder photos I've seen show Roman letters.

Microscale MC-4079
Well, the builder's photos would show Roman in 1917...when the car in
question was built. In fact, AFAIK all UP tank cars in existence in
1953...it is 1953, isn't it?...were built prior to 1938 so all builder's
photos of UP tank cars would show Roman lettering. In 1939 UP changed its
letter style to Gothic.

Incidentally, there is an end photo of a UP tank car in Laramie with "Oil
Car" lettering in Gothic on pg 104 of Union Pacific Across Sherman Hill.

Mike Brock


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 28, 2011, at 11:31 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

[snip]
On the other hand, I would think the Roman version was still around
in your modeling era -- 1953/1954 right? Maybe someone on the UP list
would know more about it?
Gothic replaced Roman in all UP freight car lettering in 1939, so
very few cars would still have been in service as late as 1953 with
Roman lettering.


Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Gothic replaced Roman in all UP freight car lettering in 1939, so very few cars would still have been in service as late as 1953 with
Roman lettering.
True in general. But if there's a systematic exception to this comment, I would think it would be tank cars.

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompson@signaturepress.com


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 28, 2011, at 11:49 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Gothic replaced Roman in all UP freight car lettering in 1939, so
very few cars would still have been in service as late as 1953 with
Roman lettering.
True in general. But if there's a systematic exception to this
comment, I would think it would be tank cars.
The photographic evidence I have or have seen shows that the tank
cars got Gothic lettering from 1939 on just like everything else.


Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
The photographic evidence I have or have seen shows that the tank cars got Gothic lettering from 1939 on just like everything else.
I hope it didn't sound like I thought tank cars didn't get standard lettering. I just suspected it was less frequently done, judging by the state of the UP tank cars in photos I have seen. But perhaps that is what Richard is correcting.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

The only note Terry includes in his book is that the O-50-6 tank cars
were repainted 1952-1956. That makes sense to me, as the original paint
was 15 years old in 1952. Also, there is a 1953 photo of a freshly
painted 12,500 gallon tank (1920's vintage) in the UP Color Guide Vol 2
and it has gothic lettering, but no "oil car" stencil.

So the question is, when was "oil car" dropped from these cars? Only a
paint & lettering diagram could (perhaps) answer that question. Mike says
he found one photo showing "oil car" in gothic, but I don't know of any
other photo that shows this. I've seen many photos of UP tank cars in
gothic lettering without the "oil car" stencil.

Microscale did produce a second decal set for tank cars in the gothic
style but it has no "oil car" stencil. I think that set also spelled
"brake" as "break"!

Tim O'Connor


------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Gothic replaced Roman in all UP freight car lettering in 1939, so
very few cars would still have been in service as late as 1953 with
Roman lettering.
True in general. But if there's a systematic exception to this
comment, I would think it would be tank cars.
The photographic evidence I have or have seen shows that the tank
cars got Gothic lettering from 1939 on just like everything else.

Richard Hendrickson


FRANK PEACOCK
 

Group, Didn't Terry publish some UP PL&N drawings that showed Tank Cars? I think so but I'm in Muleshoe on my way to Winslow and eventually Calif. for the NMRA meet. If nobody has found it by the time I get back I will look. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: timboconnor@comcast.net
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 18:21:24 -0400
Subject: [STMFC] Re: "Oil Car" lettering on UP tank cars






























The only note Terry includes in his book is that the O-50-6 tank cars

were repainted 1952-1956. That makes sense to me, as the original paint

was 15 years old in 1952. Also, there is a 1953 photo of a freshly

painted 12,500 gallon tank (1920's vintage) in the UP Color Guide Vol 2

and it has gothic lettering, but no "oil car" stencil.



So the question is, when was "oil car" dropped from these cars? Only a

paint & lettering diagram could (perhaps) answer that question. Mike says

he found one photo showing "oil car" in gothic, but I don't know of any

other photo that shows this. I've seen many photos of UP tank cars in

gothic lettering without the "oil car" stencil.



Microscale did produce a second decal set for tank cars in the gothic

style but it has no "oil car" stencil. I think that set also spelled

"brake" as "break"!



Tim O'Connor



----------------------------------------------------------



Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Gothic replaced Roman in all UP freight car lettering in 1939, so
very few cars would still have been in service as late as 1953 with
Roman lettering.
True in general. But if there's a systematic exception to this
comment, I would think it would be tank cars.
The photographic evidence I have or have seen shows that the tank
cars got Gothic lettering from 1939 on just like everything else.
Richard Hendrickson

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

OK, I've created a photo album named UP Tank Cars. In it are 3 photos associated with the UP "oil car" lettering and the 8K 4000 class UP tank car including the Challenger model.

The first photo is of the Challenger model currently undergoing decaling.

Next, the 2 prototype photos are pretty bad. The purpose is to show the "Oil Car" lettering which they do. Note, in photo "UP tank car1 007", the nearest car is an 8K class 4000 car...without "oil car" lettering. The car behind is larger...possibly a 12500 gal class 4209 car...WITH "OIL CAR" lettering...in Gothic. The photo was apparently taken in 1947.
Richard, I'm not sure you can make much of the trucks on the 4000 class car. I might be able to make a better photo.

The third photo, "Oil car at Laramie" is on pg 104 of the book Union Pacific Across Sherman Hill. The car appears to be another class 4209 car.

The original purpose was to find a photo of a 4000 class 8K car with "oil car" lettering during the 50's which I have not done. Incidentally, there were apparently 20 cars "converted from oil cars 4000-4099" for acid service. These formed the 4950-4969 class after conversion. We will no doubt discover that car 4002 [ my model's number ] was among those converted [ in 1937-8 ]. In fact, I expect to see a lengthy article on the conversion in the near future <G>.

UP oil cars were typically found around engine terminals. I will continue to look for more...perhaps even of the elusive 8K 4000 class.

Mike Brock


Rich C
 

Steve Orth has a modeling article on this tanker.
 
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/654/45380/march-1999-page-24

Rich Christie

--- On Tue, 6/28/11, mike brock <brockm@brevard.net> wrote:


From: mike brock <brockm@brevard.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: "Oil Car" lettering on UP tank cars
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 28, 2011, 9:53 PM


 



OK, I've created a photo album named UP Tank Cars. In it are 3 photos
associated with the UP "oil car" lettering and the 8K 4000 class UP tank car
including the Challenger model.

The first photo is of the Challenger model currently undergoing decaling.

Next, the 2 prototype photos are pretty bad. The purpose is to show the "Oil
Car" lettering which they do. Note, in photo "UP tank car1 007", the nearest
car is an 8K class 4000 car...without "oil car" lettering. The car behind is
larger...possibly a 12500 gal class 4209 car...WITH "OIL CAR" lettering...in
Gothic. The photo was apparently taken in 1947.
Richard, I'm not sure you can make much of the trucks on the 4000 class car.
I might be able to make a better photo.

The third photo, "Oil car at Laramie" is on pg 104 of the book Union Pacific
Across Sherman Hill. The car appears to be another class 4209 car.

The original purpose was to find a photo of a 4000 class 8K car with "oil
car" lettering during the 50's which I have not done. Incidentally, there
were apparently 20 cars "converted from oil cars 4000-4099" for acid
service. These formed the 4950-4969 class after conversion. We will no doubt
discover that car 4002 [ my model's number ] was among those converted [ in
1937-8 ]. In fact, I expect to see a lengthy article on the conversion in
the near future <G>.

UP oil cars were typically found around engine terminals. I will continue to
look for more...perhaps even of the elusive 8K 4000 class.

Mike Brock


Tim O'Connor
 

Mike, did you mean to say Overland model? I think these cars were built
by "Cheyenne" in China. I have one, lettered for Sinclair. (Right in your
neck of the woods in Wyoming.)

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------

OK, I've created a photo album named UP Tank Cars. In it are 3 photos
associated with the UP "oil car" lettering and the 8K 4000 class UP tank car
including the Challenger model.


mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes:

Mike, did you mean to say Overland model?
Actually...no. However, as my friend Bill Andre used to say, "You don't know what you're talking about"...and I didn't [ a first, I guess ]. OMI it is. Challenger imported the SP GS gon that I sto...er...bought at the same time. I mean...$30/car?

I think these cars were built
by "Cheyenne" in China.
Gads...the Chinese even bought Cheyenne as well...

I have one, lettered for Sinclair. (Right in your
neck of the woods in Wyoming.)
Yeah...as Richard pointed out. However...sliding all those "Sinclair" letters down the side of the tank didn't appeal AND I have quite a few Sinclair cars.

Mike Brock


Dick Harley
 

Many folks on this list should already know that I have a substantial amount of Union Pacific PL&N (Painting, Lettering & Numbering) drawings and related information. A few days ago, when I first noticed this question and thread, I started to pull out some relevant documentation to find some answers. (Accurate data usually is not created instantly.)

In the mean time, the large amount of incorrect information and frivolity posted on this subject leads me to feel that my information and theories would not be particularly welcome at this point. So, if anyone one really wants some honest information about UP lettering, please contact me off list.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that on the U.P. 4002 tank car model which Mike posted that the test data decal is both upside down and inside out? Aren't photographs a wonderful thing?


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA