Some of you may be interested in what happened with regard to
prototype modeling, especially of freight cars, at the Sacramento
NMRA national convention last week. If not, hit your delete button now.

I'll preface this by identifying myself as someone who dropped out of
the NMRA years ago because I thought the organization had totally
lost its way, and I haven't been to an NMRA national convention
since. However, I'm aware that several national officers are trying
to point the NMRA in a different direction, and that the Pacific
Coast Region convention committee for Sacramento joined that effort
by trying to design what they called the "unconventional
convention." So I signed up for a six month trial membership in the
NMRA and went to Sacramento to see how it turned out.

On the whole, I thought it turned out very well. The location could
hardly have been better; a spacious, modern convention center with
major hotels on its doorstep, layout tours to some of the country's
most celebrated model railroads (e.g., Jack Burgess' Yosemite Valley,
Otis McGee's SP Shasta division), the California State Railroad
Museum only a mile away, etc. There were fewer "vesties" than there
used to be (i.e., aging guys wearing railroad overalls and hats,
vests with a gazillion convention badges, etc.) There were a lot of
prototype-oriented clinics, including ones by both Tony Thompson and
me on steam era freight cars, separate rooms for the SIGs (e.g.
layout design, operations,) as well as for an RPM display which was
ably coordinated by Tim Costello. There was even a clinic on
prototype research with Tony Koester, Jack Burgess, Tony Thompson,
Kyle Wyatt of CSRM, and myself.

I thought the convention committee really had their act together,
notably in their decision to have no NMRA banquet with endless
speeches by loquacious officers. Instead they had a dessert meeting,
which followed individual dinners at the many good restaurants around
the convention center, where awards were made. Even the weather was
warm and dry but only excessively hot on a couple of days early in
the convention. What's not to like? Well, I'll get to that.

The turnout in the RPM room was disappointing, perhaps 1/4 the number
of models that are shown at Naperville/Lisle and at Cocoa Beach. One
reason, I think, was inadequate publicity. The NMRA folks assumed
that making the existence of the RPM display known to their members
was enough, failing to understand that many (most?) prototype
modelers have given up on the NMRA and gone off in their own
direction. For example, no notices inviting participation appeared
on the STMFC list or any of the other e-mail lists where prototype
modelers lurk. And many prototype modelers who might have attended
retain unpleasant memories of past experiences at NMRA conventions
where prototype modeling was given short shrift or even viewed with
hostility. I well remember the NMRA national officer who, some years
ago, pointed his finger at me and exclaimed "you guys are ruining the
hobby!" If the NMRA is serious about bringing prototype modeling
back into the organization - as at least some national officers seem
to be - it's going to take a lot of effort and outreach to overcome
the decades of indifference and negativity with which the
organization has treated prototype modelers in the past.

However, the prototype models that were displayed were representative
of a wide variety of types of equipment and eras. The steam era
freight cars shown were brought mostly by myself, Tony Thompson, and
Denny Anspach, all subscribers to this list. There were also some
passenger trains, some first-generation diesel locos, a few steam
locos, and many modern diesels and freight cars. Especially
interesting were the "under construction" models showing how much
effort and ingenuity goes into turning run-of-the-mill production
models into highly accurate and well detailed replicas of specific
prototypes.

So was it really an unconventional convention? I think it was, and
unconventional in ways that should be welcomed by the kind of
modelers on this list. How much did it affect the future directions
of the NMRA? That remains to be seen. Next year's convention is in
Grand Rapids, MI and the one after that in Cleveland. Both
convention committees were in evidence promoting what they planned to
offer. I had the opportunity to talk at length with those from
Cleveland, and they talked a good game, from my perspective as a
prototype modeler, but talk is cheap; we'll see what they actually
do. I had only a brief conversation with one person from Grand
Rapids and that did not make me hopeful about next year. The
impression I got is that they want to have an "old fashioned"
convention (which means, I assume, back to the 20th century) and the
person I spoke with apparently didn't have a clue about prototype
modeling, what it is, what it might contribute to their convention,
or why they should make an effort to include it. On the basis of
that brief (and, admittedly, not very conclusive) evidence, I'll pass
on Grand Rapids, and probably will not renew my brief NMRA
membership. YMMV, of course.

Richard Hendrickson

Actually, we did announce the RPM activities on this list (mid-May) and,
while we hoped for a better turnout, we really didn't expect as many models
as were on display. It was also announced on a number of other lists.

Richard also mentioned the panel discussion/clinic on prototype research a
number of us participated in. As part of that effort, we put together a
6-page reference handout which lists information provided by each of the
members of the panel discussion ranging from online car builder's
dictionaries to photo sources and historical aerial maps. Anyone can
download a copy of the .pdf handout at

http://www.x2011west.org/handouts.html

...and then click on the Handout to the right of "Prototype Research Panel
Discussion". We'd like to continually update and add more information to
this handout. If you have information along these lines you'd be willing to
share, let me know directly. The website will be up for several more months
and then we'll figure out where to move it after that...the Files section of
the STMFC is one possible location although the handout covers more than
just freight cars.

Jack Burgess
jack@...

So was it really an unconventional convention? I think it was, and
unconventional in ways that should be welcomed by the kind of
modelers on this list. How much did it affect the future directions
of the NMRA? That remains to be seen. Next year's convention is in
Grand Rapids, MI and the one after that in Cleveland. Both
convention committees were in evidence promoting what they planned to

2013 will be in Atlanta, GA, not Cleveland.
Come down and see how the south throws a convention.

Howard Garner
Pickens,SC

On Jul 11, 2011, at 3:53 PM, Howard R Garner wrote:

So was it really an unconventional convention? I think it was, and
unconventional in ways that should be welcomed by the kind of
modelers on this list. How much did it affect the future directions
of the NMRA? That remains to be seen. Next year's convention is in
Grand Rapids, MI and the one after that in Cleveland. Both
convention committees were in evidence promoting what they planned to

2013 will be in Atlanta, GA, not Cleveland.
Come down and see how the south throws a convention.

Quite right, Howard; my apologies. Cleveland is in 2014,

Richard Hendrickson

On Jul 11, 2011, at 2:52 PM, Jack Burgess wrote:

Actually, we did announce the RPM activities on this list (mid-May)
and,
while we hoped for a better turnout, we really didn't expect as
many models
as were on display. It was also announced on a number of other lists.

My apologies, Jack. I must have missed that announcement, perhaps
because I was on the road in mid-May.

While I'm at it, let me strongly second Jacks' request for list
members to seek out the list of resources that we put together for
the prototype research panel and, if possible, add to it. All of us
on the panel felt that it should be an ongoing list which could be
periodically added to and updated, and many on the STMFC list could
usefully contribute to it.

Richard Hendrickson

I missed my first convention in 30 years - too many orders to fill - but I'll look for you all in Grand Rapids. BTW, if you haven't seen it yet, go on YouTube to view the wonderful Grand Rapids video that shows the city at its best. - Al Westerfield

I guess I'm out of the loop. What is going to transpire in Grand Rapids? Grand Rapids, Michigan, right?

Tom
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of Al and Patricia Westerfield [westerfield@...]
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 8:51 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NMRA Sacramento

I missed my first convention in 30 years - too many orders to fill - but I'll look for you all in Grand Rapids. BTW, if you haven't seen it yet, go on YouTube to view the wonderful Grand Rapids video that shows the city at its best. - Al Westerfield

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

I have some complementary observations to add to Richard's good comments about the Sacramento NMRA Convention, particularly the RPM display (RPM -a good term- seems to be a relatively uncommon term used by the denizens of this list).

Tim Costello, a very, very nice person, did a very good job of handling the display room, with 17 cloth covered tables elevated on 15" PVC leg-extenders ("How about 18"???"). It was open for two days 12N-8 PM. The room was not in the best line of traffic, IMHO, one of the reasons why it did not get as much attention as I thought it deserved. Tim encouraged the usual sociability and sharing that the prototype modeling community promotes so well. I really enjoyed looking at some of the modern car modeling.

The models on display were of a very high order, and very interesting to boot- IMHO definitely more thoughtful than those relatively few models striving for perfection in the contest room. My estimate of the number of models displayed is less optimistic than Richard's, perhaps only a fourth or fifth that seen at Cocoa. There was plenty of room to spread things out!

I was one of the room's part-time hosts, and either as host or just a POM, the time flew by with good conversation and intelligent questions.

The OPS and Layout Design Sigs had a major presence.

All of this said, there was a general feeling that the RPM and the active Sig movements had made some real strides in getting some attention within the NMRA but that there was some real room for further improvement.

I attended relatively few clinics because of home & family obligations, and candidly, relatively few caught my interest (the Clinic subject spread and quality at Cocoa and "Naperville" is/was/were of a higher order, IMHO). That the Sacramento Parking Authority garnished one's bank account for each instance of casual parking forced its own behavior modification in this regard.

The attendance was about 2100 registrants, considered by the NMRA leadership to be very, very good. There is some quiet worry within the NMRA that although the current convention seemed to represent a step forward out of past behavior, their are some lingering concerns that the "bad old days" might return at Grand Rapids. Coupled with Richard's reported experience with the Grand Rapids people, I independently was a silent participant in a casual discussion that as far as RPM, "the Grand Rapids people 'simply are not getting it'".

The National Model Train Show was a great success, repeatedly reported to be by those vendors and exhibitors present to be as compared to their recent Milwaukee and Hartford experiences. I attended with Bill Darnaby on Friday, and returned on Sunday with Dr. Bob Church.

The show was very effectively promoted on multiple large electronic billboards throughout the Sacramento and Bay areas, as well as being very effectively promoted on regional radio. On Sunday am (God will strike me down!), we had a chance to talk at our leisure with just about all the vendors that interested us. Of them all, only one (Scenic Express) told me that sales and interest had been OK, but not as good as other shows- all non-NMRA, however. A particularly interesting comment made by several was the general delight in the amount of business done on Friday, usually a low "ramping-up" day, and with a morning filled with only Convention attendees (no public). Not only was business brisk, they loved the predominance of serious modelers asking intelligent questions- apparently a relatively uncommon experience judging from how many made the same observation.

Other notes:

There were a disproportionate number of Canadian vendors and manufacturers- virtually all of them offering very high grade stuff (I will ignore a well known Connecticut Yankee masquerading as a Canadian), and all drawing a lot of interest. There must be something about the warming of the arctic.

There were very high quality modular railroads from Edmonton, Alberta and from Corpus Christi, Texas, and a lot in between. I can't say that modulars have attracted me very much over the years for a variety of reasons, but very high standards of modeling and operation (something less than throttle-to-the-wall) seem to have caught up with a lot of these club organizations, and I found the majority of them very much worth looking at carefully. Narrow gauge layouts (On3, HOns, Sn3) seemed to be everywhere, again virtually every one of them demonstrating the very highest quality modeling that this end of the hobby seems to promote.

Those staffing the Walthers booth seemed to be peculiarly ignorant of the products they were promoting, particularly as related to critical and knowledgeable modelers. It was embarrassing to observe.

There was not a single one of the well known DCC products vendors, e.g. Tony's, Litchfield Station, Southern Digital, etc.

No brass vendors were there save Coach Yard with its out-of-sight fine stuff. (Freddie HIll -Coach Yard and The Original Whistle Stop- was everywhere, and I observed him at his best as he seriously took to task one hapless national manufacturer about its self-defeating inventory policies.

Exact Rail had a very spacious very professional booth. Apparently they have money to bet on the future.

Not a lot of new stuff, at least not a lot that I can dredge up out of my mind now.

Despite Micro-Mark's increasing efforts to market pirated undisguised cheap-price, cheap-quality Asian copies of their products, NWSL continues to be a very serious and focused organization that IMHO is one of the hobby's treasures to be valued and guarded. Their new Stanton power trucks are selling well, despite being relatively pricey. For the first time, we now have these very high quality replacement DCC-ready power trucks for older brass diesels, gas electrics, trolleys, interurbans, etc.

There is talk of making RP25 an NMRA Standard, and the popular 0.088" wide wheels (Reboxx, IM, Kadee, Branch Line) an RP (Note that these named wheels are the standard 0.110" wide RP25 wheels simply narrowed on the tread side of the wheel alone to 0.088". The flange width and contour remains the same either way. These wheels are NOT true "code 88" a wheel that actually has a diminished flange in addition to a diminished tread widthl).

The NMRA is funding out of separate funding i.e. not out of dues to reserves, a major exhibit on scale model railroading at the California State Railroad Museum. This has been in the works for some years, and at last it is about to take off. At an invitation-only ceremony at the CSRM to announce the actual initiation of construction, at least $75,000 -with potential for far more by proffered matching funds- was raised on the spot with checks being handed in, etc. Reed Dennis announced his gift of the Ryan (?) PFM collection of brass locomotives/cars to the CSRM for curation and exhibition.

Coincident with this ceremony, the NMRA Board hosted the CSRM Foundation Board and Staff at a very nice private reception for a relatively small number of people. However, not everyone got the same message, and the broad literature for the Convention announced that the reception was all attendees! Fortunately, it got handled on short notice by hiding the reception in a location that was very difficult to find.

Enough for now.

Denny




















Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento

Despite the fact that hardly anyone on this list seems interested -
which is significant in itself - I'm going to make a few comments on
Denny's observations.

On Jul 12, 2011, at 2:37 PM, dennyanspach wrote:

I have some complementary observations to add to Richard's good
comments about the Sacramento NMRA Convention, particularly the RPM
display (RPM -a good term- seems to be a relatively uncommon term
used by the denizens of this list).

Tim Costello, a very, very nice person, did a very good job of
handling the display room, with 17 cloth covered tables elevated on
15" PVC leg-extenders ("How about 18"???"). It was open for two
days 12N-8 PM. The room was not in the best line of traffic, IMHO,
one of the reasons why it did not get as much attention as I
thought it deserved. Tim encouraged the usual sociability and
sharing that the prototype modeling community promotes so well. I
really enjoyed looking at some of the modern car modeling.

All true. Tim not only set up the room but was there a lot, along
with Dave Hussey, Tony Thompson, and myself.

The models on display were of a very high order, and very
interesting to boot- IMHO definitely more thoughtful than those
relatively few models striving for perfection in the contest room.

As usual, the NMRA contest is an entirely different animal,
reflecting again why prototype modelers need their own (non-
competitive) display. There were a number of superb models in the
NMRA contest, but also a lot of the cutesy, implausible, and overdone
creations that many NMRA members seem to find irresistible.

My estimate of the number of models displayed is less optimistic
than Richard's, perhaps only a fourth or fifth that seen at Cocoa.
There was plenty of room to spread things out!

I was one of the room's part-time hosts, and either as host or just
a POM, the time flew by with good conversation and intelligent
questions.

No argument with either statement.

The OPS and Layout Design Sigs had a major presence.

All of this said, there was a general feeling that the RPM and the
active Sig movements had made some real strides in getting some
attention within the NMRA but that there was some real room for
further improvement.

Amen to that.

[snip]

The attendance was about 2100 registrants, considered by the NMRA
leadership to be very, very good. There is some quiet worry within
the NMRA that although the current convention seemed to represent a
step forward out of past behavior, their are some lingering
concerns that the "bad old days" might return at Grand Rapids.
Coupled with Richard's reported experience with the Grand Rapids
people, I independently was a silent participant in a casual
discussion that as far as RPM, "the Grand Rapids people 'simply are
not getting it'".

In the immortal words of Rhett Butler, frankly, my dear, I don't give
a damn. Why would I spend a lot of $$$ to get from Ashland (nestled
in the Cascades and gorgeous in the summer) to Grand Rapids (almost
certainly hot, humid, and midwest-dull) to attend an '"old
fashioned" (ugh!) NMRA convention? As usual, I'll spend my travel
money next year going to Naperville/Lisle, Cocoa Beach, and possibly
to John Golden's RPM meet in St. Louis. (It may be hot and humid in
St. Louis as well, but at least I'd be with a bunch of other modelers
who share my interests and objectives.)

The National Model Train Show was a great success, repeatedly
reported to be by those vendors and exhibitors present to be as
compared to their recent Milwaukee and Hartford experiences. I
attended with Bill Darnaby on Friday, and returned on Sunday with
Dr. Bob Church.

What does it tell you about the NMRA's reputation with prototype
modelers that a superb prototype modeler like Bill Darnaby was in
town visiting his friend Denny Anspach and couldn't be bothered to
register for or attend the NMRA convention, except for a brief visit
to the train show? Unfortunately, it appears that PCR's valiant
effort to turn things around was a one-shot deal. Prediction: when
the NMRA fades away like the Cheshire cat, prototype modeling will
still be going strong.

Richard Hendrickson

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Despite the fact that hardly anyone on this list seems interested - which is significant in itself - I'm going to make a few comments on Denny's observations.

Like Richard, I almost entirely agree with Denny's description of events. One area of concern: both the folks I talked to at the Grand Rapids convention display said, at different times, that they wanted to "go back to a traditional approach" and to put on "an old-fashioned convention." And like Richard, this makes me firmly cross off Grand Rapids as a possible trip next year. The bad old days of the NMRA are, evidently, not entirely behind us. Sigh.
I could not get much information or plans out of the Atlanta folks (2013) other than enthusiasm, but the guys planning for Cleveland in 2014 did seem to like many of the "modern" aspects of the Sacramento convention and wanted to do more of the same. Now Cleveland is not a sparkling destination from my point of view (I've been there many times, including a bunch of MCR regional meets), but maybe it's worth a visit if they set out to do the right things.
Many dealers were delighted with the attendance AND the spending at the train show, far better than anything in five years, a couple of them said. But the NTS is separately planned and run from NMRA conventions, so the PCR people cannot take credit for the NTS success.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson

The models on display were of a very high order, and very
interesting to boot- IMHO definitely more thoughtful than those
relatively few models striving for perfection in the contest room.

As usual, the NMRA contest is an entirely different animal,
reflecting again why prototype modelers need their own (non-
competitive) display. There were a number of superb models in the
NMRA contest, but also a lot of the cutesy, implausible, and overdone
creations that many NMRA members seem to find irresistible.

Are you saying that PMs cannot or should not have contests, or merely that
as part of an NMRA convention and contest PMs would be "lost in the sauce"?



KL

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
"Are you saying that PMs cannot or should not have contests, or merely that
as part of an NMRA convention and contest PMs would be "lost in the sauce"?"

PMs should not have contests.  At the beginning of the PM movement in mid-late
1980s, many of use felt the way the NMRA contest was being conducted had
a seriously negative impact to two major areas.  The first was that while the
craftsmanship displayed in the Contest Room was often of the highest order, the
prototype subjects were usually the unusual or whimsical, and prototype accuracy
did not rank highly within the judging criteria.  Secondly, we also felt that
the contests stifled both free communication between modelers and created a
barrier that prevented everyone from participating.

To tear down these barriers, virtually all of the PM meets do not have a judged
contest.  (The only exception was Naperville, and Martin's judging was extremely
transparent and had no impact on the meet.)  This proved to be hugely
successful, and in venues that have both display tables and judged contests,
such as the PRR Annual Meeting, the display models vastly outnumber those
entered in the contest.


Ben Hom

If your concern is over contests and model display, the local committee has no control. The new, more open national rules will apply, including the talk to the modelers and display only categories. IMO, a great improvement in the past few years. I didn't notice that many cutesy models, unless you consider my stump house diorama, which was modeled from the prototype (although it was a poem).
CJ Riley

Bainbridge Island WA

On Jul 13, 2011, at 8:16 AM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
"Are you saying that PMs cannot or should not have contests, or
merely that
as part of an NMRA convention and contest PMs would be "lost in the
sauce"?"

PMs should not have contests. At the beginning of the PM movement
in mid-late
1980s, many of use felt the way the NMRA contest was being
conducted had
a seriously negative impact to two major areas. The first was that
while the
craftsmanship displayed in the Contest Room was often of the
highest order, the
prototype subjects were usually the unusual or whimsical, and
prototype accuracy
did not rank highly within the judging criteria. Secondly, we also
felt that
the contests stifled both free communication between modelers and
created a
barrier that prevented everyone from participating.

To tear down these barriers, virtually all of the PM meets do not
have a judged
contest. (The only exception was Naperville, and Martin's judging
was extremely
transparent and had no impact on the meet.) This proved to be hugely
successful, and in venues that have both display tables and judged
contests,
such as the PRR Annual Meeting, the display models vastly outnumber
those
entered in the contest.

I'll just add to this, since Kurt was responding to a statement of
mine, that I entirely agree with Ben. And I will add further, having
served in the past as an NMRA contest judge, that it is very
difficult to judge prototypical accuracy and detail, even for an
experienced prototype modeler, unless the model builder has supplied
an extensive documentation file, which imposes a considerable burden
on contest entrants. It is also difficult - and, I think,
counterproductive - to make fine distinctions between one high
quality model and another. Given the fine models displayed at a
typical RPM meet, I doubt that there could be anything approaching
unanimity about which ones were the "best."

Richard Hendrickson

I host the Central Ohio RPM at Marion, Oh and attend the Naperville, Savannah and perhaps one other meet a year. I personally don't have contests at the meet that I host and at the Savannah meet that I help organize there are NO contests as well. To me, holding contests and voting on this model or that model only elevates on person above the rest and the only thing this accomplishes is the building of ones ego. I prefer the informal atmosphere of RPM meets and certainly hope that this never changes. We are not at these meets to judge our modeling skill against each other. We are there to meet and greet other modelers and get and give modeling tips and techniques. To me that is the essence of the RPM meet.

Denis Blake
Central Ohio RPM

http://www.hansmanns.org/meet/

http://s379.photobucket.com/albums/oo239/dti_nut/2011%20Marion%20RPM/

http://www.facebook.com/pages/manage/#!/pages/Central-Ohio-Prototype-Modelers-Meet/326645470797

http://s1187.photobucket.com/albums/z397/salguy1/?start=all

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:42:11 -0700, Richard Hendrickson wrote

As usual, the NMRA contest is an entirely different animal,
reflecting again why prototype modelers need their own (non-
competitive) display.

It seems that there is nearly a 100% consensus now with both the NMRA and RPMers.
Unfortunately, this wasn't reached until 75% of the RPMers who *were* NMRA members and
regular nation attendees dropped out never to return. I remember my conversation with
Allen Pollock, then the newly minted (about an hour) NMRA president. He said the talk
among the NMRA brass was that I was a "lone dissenter" when it came to the issue of
thrusting the NMRA contest and RPM together. Actually, I was the only one still talking
to the NMRA. Everybody else walked, and for the most part, haven't come back. A lesson
I got at the Cincinnati national in 05. I will never go to another national convention.
I supported it and RPM for 9 years, and in return I got *zero* support in Cincinnati.

In the immortal words of Rhett Butler, frankly, my dear, I don't give
a damn. Why would I spend a lot of $$$ to get from Ashland (nestled
in the Cascades and gorgeous in the summer) to Grand Rapids (almost
certainly hot, humid, and midwest-dull) to attend an '"old
fashioned" (ugh!) NMRA convention?

And there is the problem. Would I rather be in California in July than in Cincinnati?
Sure. And if I go there, it won't be to mull around an NMRA convention, I will be out
and about and doing fun stuff. I learned my lesson the hard way.

effort to turn things around was a one-shot deal. Prediction: when
the NMRA fades away like the Cheshire cat, prototype modeling will
still be going strong.

The NMRA needs to fix itself. RPM cannot fix it either voluntarily or by draft. The
NMRA has always defined itself as an "umbrella" organization, and any attempts to
embrace RPM concepts will serve only to alienate the remaining vesties. The NMRA has to
accept the fact that the vast majority of modelers - RPMers and otherwise, are simply
not interested in their contest. The few who still get into the ego trip of winning
contests are going to be disappointed that nobody else shows up for them to beat in
their categories, but it's just not my problem. There is no amount of rule tweaking
that would interest me in having my models judged. It's a demeaning, arbitrary, and
ultimately useless process that contributes nothing to my modeling nor my enjoyment of
the hobby. To the contrary, it's a diversion of my per resources to no useful purpose.

Fortunately, thanks to some occurrences both planned and spontaneous, the NMRA is keenly
aware of the cultural difference between an RPM room and a contest room. But getting
RPMers to travel for a week-long convention and paying hundreds or even thousands of
dollars in travel and lodging costs to be a knot of hair on the back of the beast, when
- as Richard pointed out, we can go to a Naperville, or St. Louis, or Cocoa Beach, or
Marion for a fraction of the cost *and* be the whole beast, it's kind of a no-brainer.

Andy

Dennis wrote:
<I host the Central Ohio RPM at Marion, Oh and attend the Naperville,
<Savannah and perhaps one other meet a year. I personally don't have
<contests at the meet that I host and at the Savannah meet that I help
<organize there are NO contests as well. To me, holding contests and
<voting
<on this model or that model only elevates on person above the rest and
<the
<only thing this accomplishes is the building of ones ego. I prefer the
<informal atmosphere of RPM meets and certainly hope that this never
<changes.
<We are not at these meets to judge our modeling skill against each
<other.
<We are there to meet and greet other modelers and get and give modeling
<tips
<and techniques. To me that is the essence of the RPM meet.

First, I completely agree that contests don't "belong" at RPM meets. But I
also think that the interaction between attendees at RPM events is due in
large part to 1) attendee's universal interest in prototype modeling and 2)
the higher level of modeling skills demonstrated by RPM attendees, on
average, than typical at an NMRA convention. It is this interaction of
modelers and the types of clinics available and not the lack of contests
which, I think, drives attendance to RPM meets.

But, contests can be valuable in certain ways. I don't follow sports at all,
but would anyone watch any sporting match if there were no scores? Or
participate in high school sports if they didn't keep score? Competition
encourages one to work harder to improve their skills, whether playing golf
on the weekends or, heaven forbid, building models. I'm guessing that a
majority of modelers are "good enough" modelers, especially if they have
other interests, are more interested in building a layout to operate than
building models, etc. But I, and some others, like the model building best.
I enjoy researching my prototype, developing plans for a new project, then
scratchbuilding it. I also like the challenge of building more complex
models and learning new techniques.

I was a "contest modeler" for many, many years and used the contests as
motivation to take on more difficult models, finish them, and continually
maintain high standards for all of the models I built. At that time, the Bay
area had a number of very good contest modelers who set a very high bar for
the rest of us including Bob Brown, Gordon Cannon, Jim Tangney, and others.
I never thought of contests as a way to build my ego (and I doubt that
others at the time felt that way either) but as a way to push myself to
continually improve my skills.

Before someone attacks me with the "this is a hobby and it shouldn't be like
work", let me just say I get much more enjoyment from pushing myself to
finish a model than goofing off and getting nothing done...

Jack Burgess

AMEN!
Rick Dietrichson
Wilmington, NC


From: Jack Burgess
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 1:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: NMRA Sacramento



Dennis wrote:
<I host the Central Ohio RPM at Marion, Oh and attend the Naperville,
<Savannah and perhaps one other meet a year. I personally don't have
<contests at the meet that I host and at the Savannah meet that I help
<organize there are NO contests as well. To me, holding contests and
<voting
<on this model or that model only elevates on person above the rest and
<the
<only thing this accomplishes is the building of ones ego. I prefer the
<informal atmosphere of RPM meets and certainly hope that this never
<changes.
<We are not at these meets to judge our modeling skill against each
<other.
<We are there to meet and greet other modelers and get and give modeling
<tips
<and techniques. To me that is the essence of the RPM meet.

First, I completely agree that contests don't "belong" at RPM meets. But I
also think that the interaction between attendees at RPM events is due in
large part to 1) attendee's universal interest in prototype modeling and 2)
the higher level of modeling skills demonstrated by RPM attendees, on
average, than typical at an NMRA convention. It is this interaction of
modelers and the types of clinics available and not the lack of contests
which, I think, drives attendance to RPM meets.

But, contests can be valuable in certain ways. I don't follow sports at all,
but would anyone watch any sporting match if there were no scores? Or
participate in high school sports if they didn't keep score? Competition
encourages one to work harder to improve their skills, whether playing golf
on the weekends or, heaven forbid, building models. I'm guessing that a
majority of modelers are "good enough" modelers, especially if they have
other interests, are more interested in building a layout to operate than
building models, etc. But I, and some others, like the model building best.
I enjoy researching my prototype, developing plans for a new project, then
scratchbuilding it. I also like the challenge of building more complex
models and learning new techniques.

I was a "contest modeler" for many, many years and used the contests as
motivation to take on more difficult models, finish them, and continually
maintain high standards for all of the models I built. At that time, the Bay
area had a number of very good contest modelers who set a very high bar for
the rest of us including Bob Brown, Gordon Cannon, Jim Tangney, and others.
I never thought of contests as a way to build my ego (and I doubt that
others at the time felt that way either) but as a way to push myself to
continually improve my skills.

Before someone attacks me with the "this is a hobby and it shouldn't be like
work", let me just say I get much more enjoyment from pushing myself to
finish a model than goofing off and getting nothing done...

Jack Burgess

On Jul 12, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
[...]

But the NTS is separately planned and run from
NMRA conventions, so the PCR people cannot take credit for the NTS
success.

I must commend my best mates in the Bay Area for their part in
perpetrating this event. Those who managed to partake of the Advance
Section had a taste of their particular energy and enthusiasm.
--
"Gib einem Mann einen Fisch und er wird für einen Tag
zu essen. Teach einen Mann zu fischen und er wird in
einem Boot sitzen den ganzen Tag und trinken Bier."
Some mouse named Nony

Jack

I completely agree that contests have their place. I just prefer that they are not at RPM meets. Contests in sports are a whole different matter than in modeling. Sports involve them to determine a winner and a loser. We have NO place for winners or losers in the RPM movement. We do have room for regular folks getting together and having a good time. This can be sitting around talking or over a meal and or an adult beverage of your choice.

Denis Blake



Central Ohio RPM

http://www.hansmanns.org/meet/

http://s379.photobucket.com/albums/oo239/dti_nut/2011%20Marion%20RPM/

http://www.facebook.com/pages/manage/#!/pages/Central-Ohio-Prototype-Modelers-Meet/326645470797

http://s1187.photobucket.com/albums/z397/salguy1/?start=all