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LCL c. 1952
Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
Hi Tony,
I started to work for the GN in July 1968. Sometime between that date and
the BN Merger in 1970, I toured the GN's LCL facility in Fargo, ND. There
were about 10 to 12 cars spotted outside the doors and plenty of LCL in
the building. I am not sure when the GN/BN gave up LCL traffic, but in
that time frame they still carried quite a bit of LCL freight.
Joel Holmes
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I started to work for the GN in July 1968. Sometime between that date and
the BN Merger in 1970, I toured the GN's LCL facility in Fargo, ND. There
were about 10 to 12 cars spotted outside the doors and plenty of LCL in
the building. I am not sure when the GN/BN gave up LCL traffic, but in
that time frame they still carried quite a bit of LCL freight.
Joel Holmes
The railroads were still battling for LCL traffic in the 1950's."Battling" doesn't mean there was much of it, only that it was
The Burlington & the Santa Fe built new freight stations in the
Chicago area in the 1950's. The railroads were big into advertising
their LCL services. I consider the late 40's early 1950's as the
golden age of LCL traffic.
worth fighting for. Certainly in the Far West the LCL volume was tiny
by the 1950s, compared to the 1920s. "Golden Age?" You sure have a
different definition than what I'm used to.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
The railroads were still battling for LCL traffic in the 1950's. The Burlington & the Santa Fe built new freight stations in the Chicago area in the 1950's. The railroads were big into advertising their LCL services. I consider the late 40's early 1950's as the golden age of LCL traffic."Battling" doesn't mean there was much of it, only that it was worth fighting for. Certainly in the Far West the LCL volume was tiny by the 1950s, compared to the 1920s. "Golden Age?" You sure have a different definition than what I'm used to.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Randy Williamson
Tim,
Define "Fraction". Sure LCL traffic was on the downslide, but there were railroads pushing for traffic. New Haven was a big in LCL traffic in the 1950's. I have created a spreadsheet looking at LCL Interline Car Routes of the 1950's and there was still a lot of business in the early to mid 1950's.
Randy
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Define "Fraction". Sure LCL traffic was on the downslide, but there were railroads pushing for traffic. New Haven was a big in LCL traffic in the 1950's. I have created a spreadsheet looking at LCL Interline Car Routes of the 1950's and there was still a lot of business in the early to mid 1950's.
Randy
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Randy
Golden Age in what sense? In terms of volume, 1950 was a fraction of what
it had been in the 1920's. By 1960, most railroads essentially gave up the
business to trucks and freight forwarders.
On the other hand, the decline in "carloadings" in the eastern US was led
by the loss of LCL traffic. If you exclude LCL (or never depended too much
on it in the first place, like the N&W or C&O) then things weren't so bad
TimThe railroads were still battling for LCL traffic in the 1950's. The Burlington & the Santa Fe built new freight stations in the Chicago area in the 1950's. The railroads were big into advertising their LCL services. I consider the late 40's early 1950's as the golden age of LCL traffic.
Randy
Randy
Golden Age in what sense? In terms of volume, 1950 was a fraction of what
it had been in the 1920's. By 1960, most railroads essentially gave up the
business to trucks and freight forwarders.
On the other hand, the decline in "carloadings" in the eastern US was led
by the loss of LCL traffic. If you exclude LCL (or never depended too much
on it in the first place, like the N&W or C&O) then things weren't so bad
Tim
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Golden Age in what sense? In terms of volume, 1950 was a fraction of what
it had been in the 1920's. By 1960, most railroads essentially gave up the
business to trucks and freight forwarders.
On the other hand, the decline in "carloadings" in the eastern US was led
by the loss of LCL traffic. If you exclude LCL (or never depended too much
on it in the first place, like the N&W or C&O) then things weren't so bad
Tim
The railroads were still battling for LCL traffic in the 1950's. The Burlington & the Santa Fe built new freight stations in the Chicago area in the 1950's. The railroads were big into advertising their LCL services. I consider the late 40's early 1950's as the golden age of LCL traffic.
Randy
Randy Williamson
The railroads were still battling for LCL traffic in the 1950's. The Burlington & the Santa Fe built new freight stations in the Chicago area in the 1950's. The railroads were big into advertising their LCL services. I consider the late 40's early 1950's as the golden age of LCL traffic.
Randy
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Randy
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:I'm sure that's true in the 1950's, but I remember the Gilbert/And of course the improvements in motor trucks and highways
Nelson discovery years ago that in the 1930's and before, somewhere
close to 50% of all box car loads were LCL. (Which explains the
massive size of LCL buildings/facilities in major cities.)
were rapidly cutting into that LCL traffic all during the 1920s, so
those massive buildings were obsolescent already by 1930.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Richard Townsend
Today I was at the Colorado Railroad Museum and ran across detailed instructions for handling LCL freight on the C&S (both standard gauge and narrow gauge) from 1927 and 1935. They handled LCL in both box cars and refrigerator cars. Here is an interesting tidbit from the instructions: empty reefers were allowed to be used in lieu of box cars if it took them in the direction they were expected to move. However, it was prohibited to load reefers with hides, tallow or grease (except in barrels), limburger cheese, oil or empty barrels, fertilizer, tar or tar paper, and bones.
( I should point out that I am interested in the standard gauge aspects, since our kindly moderator has been known to send people [me] to moderate jail on the basis of gaugal profiling. ;^) )
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
( I should point out that I am interested in the standard gauge aspects, since our kindly moderator has been known to send people [me] to moderate jail on the basis of gaugal profiling. ;^) )
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
I'm sure that's true in the 1950's, but I remember the Gilbert/ Nelson discovery years ago that in the 1930's and before, somewhere close to 50% of all box car loads were LCL. (Which explains the massive size of LCL buildings/facilities in major cities.)And of course the improvements in motor trucks and highways were rapidly cutting into that LCL traffic all during the 1920s, so those massive buildings were obsolescent already by 1930.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
I'm sure that's true in the 1950's, but I remember the Gilbert/Nelson
discovery years ago that in the 1930's and before, somewhere close to
50% of all box car loads were LCL. (Which explains the massive size of
LCL buildings/facilities in major cities.)
Tim O'Connor
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discovery years ago that in the 1930's and before, somewhere close to
50% of all box car loads were LCL. (Which explains the massive size of
LCL buildings/facilities in major cities.)
Tim O'Connor
I would add that there were far more B&O boxcars fit for LCL service (circle T stencil) than were actually engaged in LCL transportation.
Jim Mischke
I would add that there were far more B&O boxcars fit for LCL service (circle T stencil) than were actually engaged in LCL transportation.
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--- In STMFC@..., "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., Benjamin Hom <b.hom@> wrote:departments
Paul Catapano asked:
"GENERALLY did railroads assign cars to LCL service semi-permanently?"
Ben Hom answered:
Yes, but the numbers were never as large as the railroad marketinghave led many to believe. Those specially equipped cars with thefancy paintwere certainly assigned to LCL service, but far greater numbers ofclean generalservice boxcars spent part of their time moving LCL.The B&O for one did not. Their LCL service was the "Time-Saver Service"
and they did have a limited number of box cars painted in the famous
blue with orange comet stenciling with a silver roof. In the late 1950s
the B&O adopted a stenciling on their freight car red box cars
advertising both their "Sentinel Service" and "Time-Saver Service".
(see: http://borhs.org/ModelerMag/index.html). Scroll to the bottom of
the page and download the box stenciling 1920-1960 PDF for examples.
Their box cars suitable for LCL loading or "clean" loads received a
letter "T" inside a circle stenciled to the left of the road number. In
the mid-1960s I recall seeing recently shopped class M-26 box cars,
originally built in the mid to late 1920s, with new paint and stenciling
with a circle T and a "Class A" card from the car inspector. Only box
cars with a circle T were suitable for Time-Saver Service no matter what
logo was stenciled on the car.
Regards,
Bob Witt
rwitt_2000
Ben Hom wrote:
I don't see where I used "captive service" in my reply. I don't believe
the B&O placed box cars in captive service. All the B&O cars I discussed
were suitable for interchange service.
All I was trying to state is that a B&O box car could have the "Sentinel
Service" logo and also have a circle T stenciled on the car. I have
several photos of B&O box cars with the "Sentinel Service" to right of
the door and with a circle T to the left of the road number. I have
other examples of B&O box cars with the "Time-Saver Service" logo, but
without a circle T stencil. These logos were just advertising and the
presence of circle T stencil indicated what cars were potentially
suitable for LCL loading.
I was discussing what B&O box cars were suitable for LCL loading not
what cars were accepted in interchange. If a box car was contaminated
and not suitable for LCL loading any longer I assume the circle T would
be painted over, but I have no documentation about such instructions. I
have no idea how the B&O decided what foreign road cars to load for LCL
service while on B&O property.
Bob Witt
matter
Bob Witt wrote:
"Only box cars with a circle T were suitable for Time-Saver Service no
whatcars in
logo was stenciled on the car."
So you're telling us that Time-Saver Service consisted only of B&O
captive service, and no interchanged foreign road cars were handled inB&O LCL
trains? I find that very hard to believe.Ben,
I don't see where I used "captive service" in my reply. I don't believe
the B&O placed box cars in captive service. All the B&O cars I discussed
were suitable for interchange service.
All I was trying to state is that a B&O box car could have the "Sentinel
Service" logo and also have a circle T stenciled on the car. I have
several photos of B&O box cars with the "Sentinel Service" to right of
the door and with a circle T to the left of the road number. I have
other examples of B&O box cars with the "Time-Saver Service" logo, but
without a circle T stencil. These logos were just advertising and the
presence of circle T stencil indicated what cars were potentially
suitable for LCL loading.
I was discussing what B&O box cars were suitable for LCL loading not
what cars were accepted in interchange. If a box car was contaminated
and not suitable for LCL loading any longer I assume the circle T would
be painted over, but I have no documentation about such instructions. I
have no idea how the B&O decided what foreign road cars to load for LCL
service while on B&O property.
Bob Witt
Benjamin Hom
Bob Witt wrote:
"Only box cars with a circle T were suitable for Time-Saver Service no matter
what
logo was stenciled on the car."
So you're telling us that Time-Saver Service consisted only of B&O cars in
captive service, and no interchanged foreign road cars were handled in B&O LCL
trains? I find that very hard to believe.
Ben Hom
"Only box cars with a circle T were suitable for Time-Saver Service no matter
what
logo was stenciled on the car."
So you're telling us that Time-Saver Service consisted only of B&O cars in
captive service, and no interchanged foreign road cars were handled in B&O LCL
trains? I find that very hard to believe.
Ben Hom
rwitt_2000
--- In STMFC@..., Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
and they did have a limited number of box cars painted in the famous
blue with orange comet stenciling with a silver roof. In the late 1950s
the B&O adopted a stenciling on their freight car red box cars
advertising both their "Sentinel Service" and "Time-Saver Service".
(see: http://borhs.org/ModelerMag/index.html). Scroll to the bottom of
the page and download the box stenciling 1920-1960 PDF for examples.
Their box cars suitable for LCL loading or "clean" loads received a
letter "T" inside a circle stenciled to the left of the road number. In
the mid-1960s I recall seeing recently shopped class M-26 box cars,
originally built in the mid to late 1920s, with new paint and stenciling
with a circle T and a "Class A" card from the car inspector. Only box
cars with a circle T were suitable for Time-Saver Service no matter what
logo was stenciled on the car.
Regards,
Bob Witt
departments
Paul Catapano asked:
"GENERALLY did railroads assign cars to LCL service semi-permanently?"
Ben Hom answered:
Yes, but the numbers were never as large as the railroad marketing
have led many to believe. Those specially equipped cars with thefancy paint
were certainly assigned to LCL service, but far greater numbers ofclean general
service boxcars spent part of their time moving LCL.The B&O for one did not. Their LCL service was the "Time-Saver Service"
and they did have a limited number of box cars painted in the famous
blue with orange comet stenciling with a silver roof. In the late 1950s
the B&O adopted a stenciling on their freight car red box cars
advertising both their "Sentinel Service" and "Time-Saver Service".
(see: http://borhs.org/ModelerMag/index.html). Scroll to the bottom of
the page and download the box stenciling 1920-1960 PDF for examples.
Their box cars suitable for LCL loading or "clean" loads received a
letter "T" inside a circle stenciled to the left of the road number. In
the mid-1960s I recall seeing recently shopped class M-26 box cars,
originally built in the mid to late 1920s, with new paint and stenciling
with a circle T and a "Class A" card from the car inspector. Only box
cars with a circle T were suitable for Time-Saver Service no matter what
logo was stenciled on the car.
Regards,
Bob Witt
Benjamin Hom
Paul Catapano asked:
"GENERALLY did railroads assign cars to LCL service semi-permanently?"
Yes, but the numbers were never as large as the railroad marketing departments
have led many to believe. Those specially equipped cars with the fancy paint
were certainly assigned to LCL service, but far greater numbers of clean general
service boxcars spent part of their time moving LCL.
"Were doors and or dock space reserved for LCL service at larger freight
houses?"
Yes. See Chuck Yungkurth's "Freight Houses and Railroad LCL Service" in the
November 1984 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman.
Ben Hom
"GENERALLY did railroads assign cars to LCL service semi-permanently?"
Yes, but the numbers were never as large as the railroad marketing departments
have led many to believe. Those specially equipped cars with the fancy paint
were certainly assigned to LCL service, but far greater numbers of clean general
service boxcars spent part of their time moving LCL.
"Were doors and or dock space reserved for LCL service at larger freight
houses?"
Yes. See Chuck Yungkurth's "Freight Houses and Railroad LCL Service" in the
November 1984 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman.
Ben Hom