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Texas & Pacific DS box car...
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Jack Burgess <jack@...>
All...
I am just starting Sunshine Models' Kit #52.13 for the Texas & Pacific 50000 series double-sheathed box car. The Prototype Data Sheet states that these cars were painted boxcar red with a "brown tone". Is Floquil Southern Freight Car Brown an acceptable color? Is there a better choice/mix. Also, was the underframe painted the same color? And...where the trucks painted the same color? I modeling circa 1939 if that makes a difference. Thanks... Jack Burgess Newark, CA |
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Ed Hawkins
On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Jack Burgess wrote:
I am just starting Sunshine Models' Kit #52.13 for the Texas & PacificJack, I think Southern FC Brown is probably too light. For 1939 I believe that ATSF Mineral Brown would be a better choice. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Jack Burgess <jack@...>
Thanks Ed...
Jack <Jack, <I think Southern FC Brown is probably too light. For 1939 I believe <that ATSF Mineral Brown would be a better choice. <Regards, <Ed Hawkins |
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sunbeam13n14
Have you looked at the rolling stock pics on the T&P Railway site?
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Try www.texaspacificrailway.org/rolling-stock Cheers, Frank --- On Thu, 9/1/11, Jack Burgess <jack@...> wrote:
From: Jack Burgess <jack@...> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Texas & Pacific DS box car... To: STMFC@... Date: Thursday, September 1, 2011, 5:43 PM Thanks Ed... Jack <Jack, <I think Southern FC Brown is probably too light. For 1939 I believe <that ATSF Mineral Brown would be a better choice. <Regards, <Ed Hawkins [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Ed, would that also apply to the Southern boxcars from the late 1930's
through say 1955? What few color photos I've seen of these cars show them in a "browner" tone than the Floquil Southern freight car brown. I believe the Floquil to be more appropiate for the Southern in the 60's and beyond. I use the Floquil but I overspray with a very thinned black to tone it down. That is a very uneducated observation on my part, more of a guess I'm afraid. Fenton Wells On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote: ** -- Fenton Wells 3047 Creek Run Sanford NC 27332 919-499-5545 srrfan1401@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Jack Burgess <jack@...>
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<Have you looked at the rolling stock pics on the T&P Railway site? < <Try www.texaspacificrailway.org/rolling-stock < <Cheers, <Frank Thanks Frank...although box car colors are all over the map, it does appear that standard practice was to paint trucks black (and maybe underframes). Jack Burgess |
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sunbeam13n14
Jack -
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I grew up in the Dallas - Ft Worth area and passed through Grand Prairie (the "mid cities" area) many many times during the sixties and seventies. The Texas & Pacific main is doubled tracked through Grand Prairie right beside Highway 80 and I saw M.O.W. box car X4556 (photo on the T&P site) spotted on a spur near the LTV plant several times. As I recall its color was typical of the T&P rolling stock that was still carrying T&P reporting marks. That is, its box cars, (as well as the M-K-T's for that matter) had a more reddish tint than the other box cars you might see in a typical train. Far be it for me to question Ed Hawkins' freight car knowledge but my recollection would place T&P box cars' color closer to Tuscan than any box car brown paint I've seen or used. If the paints used in the thirties and forties were different, I wouldn't know. FWIW Frank --- On Thu, 9/1/11, Jack Burgess <jack@...> wrote:
From: Jack Burgess <jack@...> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Texas & Pacific DS box car... To: STMFC@... Date: Thursday, September 1, 2011, 8:06 PM < <Have you looked at the rolling stock pics on the T&P Railway site? < <Try www.texaspacificrailway.org/rolling-stock < <Cheers, <Frank Thanks Frank...although box car colors are all over the map, it does appear that standard practice was to paint trucks black (and maybe underframes). Jack Burgess [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Ed Hawkins
On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Frank Fertitta wrote:
I grew up in the Dallas - Ft Worth area and passed through GrandFrank, You're absolutely correct that during the 1950s (and later) that T&P's freight cars were red-brown in color. The original question involved a T&P 50000-series double-sheathed box car as it would have appeared in 1939. Before the early 1940s, box cars for all but a few railroads (Union Pacific being a major exception) were a relatively dark shade of brown. Some had a hint of red, but brown was the ruling hue. In addition, these paints were flat. During the 1940s and throughout World War II, the paints began to change formulation, and by the postwar period were much brighter and most with a sheen when applied. Even "Santa Fe Mineral Brown" changed significantly from 1941 (very much a dark brown) to 1948 (a glossy red-brown hue, not at all unlike T&P used during this later time period). Actual paint chips for cars built from the early 1930s to 1952 are contained in numerous ACF bills of materials. These paint samples can be viewed by anyone wanting see them by arranging a visit to the St. Louis Mercantile Library. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Frank Fertitta wrote:
I grew up in the Dallas - Ft Worth area . . . many many times during the sixties and seventies I saw M.O.W. box car X4556 (photo on the T&P site) spotted on a spur near the LTV plant several times. As I recall its color was typical of the T&P rolling stock that was still carrying T&P reporting marks. That is, its box cars, (as well as the M-K-T's for that matter) had a more reddish tint than the other box cars you might see in a typical train.I guess I would feel a trifle nervous to base a color decision about a box car in 1939 (when Jack models) on RECOLLECTIONS of the color of an MOW box car from the sixties and seventies. No disrespect, Frank, but color memory, even if era-precise, is notoriously unreliable. If I were Jack, I suppose I would take the comment as a single data point and hope for a bunch of better ones. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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sunbeam13n14
Hi Ed -
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Just re-read your article on T&P Box Cars that appeared in volume 25 no.1 of The Eagle. I should have read it before offering my observations. I was definitely wrong about the M.O.W. car we both had seen in Grand Prairie; it was X4429. Thank you for your corrections. Frank --- On Thu, 9/1/11, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:
From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> Subject: Re: [STMFC] Texas & Pacific DS box car... To: STMFC@... Date: Thursday, September 1, 2011, 10:44 PM On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Frank Fertitta wrote: I grew up in the Dallas - Ft Worth area and passed through GrandFrank, You're absolutely correct that during the 1950s (and later) that T&P's freight cars were red-brown in color. The original question involved a T&P 50000-series double-sheathed box car as it would have appeared in 1939. Before the early 1940s, box cars for all but a few railroads (Union Pacific being a major exception) were a relatively dark shade of brown. Some had a hint of red, but brown was the ruling hue. In addition, these paints were flat. During the 1940s and throughout World War II, the paints began to change formulation, and by the postwar period were much brighter and most with a sheen when applied. Even "Santa Fe Mineral Brown" changed significantly from 1941 (very much a dark brown) to 1948 (a glossy red-brown hue, not at all unlike T&P used during this later time period). Actual paint chips for cars built from the early 1930s to 1952 are contained in numerous ACF bills of materials. These paint samples can be viewed by anyone wanting see them by arranging a visit to the St. Louis Mercantile Library. Regards, Ed Hawkins [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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