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FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York
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ed_mines
--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:
Maybrook was the western terminus on the NH. It is in the mid Hudson region about 12 miles west of the river & 10 miles west of Newburgh, NY. NH interchanged with Erie at Maybrook & received much of the perishable traffic bound for New England. Ted Cullotta is the expert on this NH freight only line. Oak Point (Bronx) was the southern terminus of NH. It would be logical to reice perishable north bound freight at this point. The Long Island railroad served Queens, Brooklyn, Nassau & Suffolk counties. Brooklyn & Queens are boroughs of New York City and contain about half NYC's population. There used to be a lot of industry in Brooklyn & Queens with rr track in the streets. You can still find a little of it now if you know where to look. Suffolk had a lot of farms during the steam era. Potatoes were shipped from Suffolk in FGE reefers. Fish & sea food may have also been shipped from Suffolk county and/or NYC. Apple & grapes are grown in the central part of New York state. I've seen a picture on an entire train of FGE reefers with these loadings on the LV. Ed Mines |
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Eric Hansmann
I recently moved to the outskirts of New Paltz, New York and the New Haven's Maybrook Line was just a mile or so from the home. Upon reading a book on the Poughkeepsie Bridge, it seems apples and grapes were shipped out along a few stops between the Bridge and Maybrook Yard. This would be from Ulster County towns of Clintondale, Modena, and possibly St. Elmo. The text does note that many shipments moved to truck transport after the Depression.
Eric Eric Hansmann New Paltz, NY |
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Bill Welch
Just to clarify, FGE would NOT knowingly have transported any fish related products, unless they were in a can.
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Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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mark
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
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Greg Martin
Bill.
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Or held for reconsignment at destination. But surely this wouldn't have been too many cars, hopefully the goods were sold by then, but not always. Greg Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schneider <bschneider424@...> To: STMFC <STMFC@...> Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 2:13 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York Bill, My guess (and it’s only a guess) is that the New York icing facilities would be for cars being interchanged or held for the numerous car float connections. That well known expert of everything (!) Wikipedia lists some of the operations here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_float Bill Schneider From: lnbill Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 5:03 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York Tim Your question gets at the heart of just one of the many questions I am trying to sort out about FGE operations. They would have been carrying Cranberries headed west and south, hence possibly the reason for the facility at Oak Brook. (What else were they growing in Conn. and Mass., anyone?) Another seeming anomaly: the B&O had a "Regular, All Year, Initial & Re-Icing" facility at St George on Staten Island. I am trying to figure out what they were growing on Staten Island that the SIRT railroad and the B&O were shipping out. A Reference Librarian at Cornell's Mann Library, their Agricultural Library, is trying to help me with such questions about New York produce. Bill Welch --- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Bill Welch
Thank you Peter for the info on perishable from NYNY&H area.
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My database of FGE Icing Points does not show any in L'll Rhodey. Does not there were none, just none on their contracted lines. Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., "Peter Ness" <prness@...> wrote:
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al_brown03
--- In STMFC@..., "Bill Schneider" <bschneider424@...> wrote:
Chautauqua, Cattaraugus, Allegany, Steuben, Erie, Niagara, Wyoming, Genesee, Livingston, Monroe, Chemung, Tioga, Broome, Delaware, Sullivan, Orange, Rockland, New York, Bronx Counties Chautauqua and Erie Counties -- hth -- -- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. |
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Apples were grown in great quantities in Massachusetts. Also dairy products
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like butter, cheese, ice cream from processors in Massachusetts and Connecticut. And I'd forgotten about seafood products that could be shipped in freight reefers like salted cod, frozen fish, whatever.
At 9/2/2011 06:18 PM Friday, you wrote:
I think you are probably correct Bill. However both the Long Island and SIRT railroads had a "Refrigerator Car Contract" with FGE which meant they were loading perishable commodities on their lines. Why else would FGE be furnishing them cars? Oak Brook seems out of position be handling this traffic. However it listed as an "Initial Icing" facility, albeit an "Emergency" facility. |
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Peter Ness
Bill,
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You dind't ask about RI, so maybe there's no icing there, but it is between parts of CT and MA... New York, New Haven & Hartford in Rhode Island: Counties: Bristol, Kent, Newport, Providence and Washington Not sure if there was icing, but there was meat packing. Commodities in the New Haven region (at least into the '50's); cranberries, fish, apples, pears, corn, tomatoes, berries (straw, rasp, blue and black in addition to cran) poultry...were eggs shipped by rail? I'm getting hungry. Regards, Peter Ness
----- Original Message -----
From: lnbill To: STMFC@... Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 5:03 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York Tim Your question gets at the heart of just one of the many questions I am trying to sort out about FGE operations. They would have been carrying Cranberries headed west and south, hence possibly the reason for the facility at Oak Brook. (What else were they growing in Conn. and Mass., anyone?) Another seeming anomaly: the B&O had a "Regular, All Year, Initial & Re-Icing" facility at St George on Staten Island. I am trying to figure out what they were growing on Staten Island that the SIRT railroad and the B&O were shipping out. A Reference Librarian at Cornell's Mann Library, their Agricultural Library, is trying to help me with such questions about New York produce. Bill Welch --- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote: > > > I'm curious, why would there be an icing station in the Bronx? > Wouldn't the Bronx be a -destination- for refrigerator cars, and > not so much an origin, or transit point? Was it common to have > icing stations at destinations? > > Tim O'Connor > > > > >The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting > >Railroad and owner of the LIRR) also operated in Kings County and Queens > >County as well as New York County. I don't know if there was an FGE > >icing station in New York City Proper other than Oak Point. > > > >bb > > > >> Yes thanks Byron, I was intending to ask about that. My database of > >> FGE Icing stations shows two Icing locales on the NYNH&H--Maybrook, NY > >> (Regular, Al-Year, Initial & Reicing) and Oak Point, NY (Emergency, > >> Al-Year, Initial & Reicing)--so I thought it must have trackage in New > >> York. > |
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Bill Welch
Absolutely not.
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Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:
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Bill Welch
I think you are probably correct Bill. However both the Long Island and SIRT railroads had a "Refrigerator Car Contract" with FGE which meant they were loading perishable commodities on their lines. Why else would FGE be furnishing them cars? Oak Brook seems out of position be handling this traffic. However it listed as an "Initial Icing" facility, albeit an "Emergency" facility.
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St George could have iced cars ordered by SIRT perhaps, as they handed off to the B&O, unclear about cars from the LI. This is all part of a picture I am trying to sort out. Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., "Bill Schneider" <bschneider424@...> wrote:
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Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
GUYZ<
Another thought is iced fish products, though I doubt any FGE cars were used for it. Fred Freitas From: Bryan Busséy <bbussey@...> To: STMFC@... Cc: lnbill <fgexbill@...> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting Railroad and owner of the LIRR) also operated in Kings County and Queens County as well as New York County. I don't know if there was an FGE icing station in New York City Proper other than Oak Point. bb On 9/2/2011 2:49 PM, lnbill wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
GUYZ,
Would the shade grown tobacco from Conn. be shipped in ice cars? It was a big crop in the 50's & 60's. Fred Freitas From: "MDelvec952@..." <MDelvec952@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York New York City was also an import point for produce and many other items in society, including many slaughterhouses. Bananas, for example, were huge business, transloaded from ships and put into fleets of reefers. ....Mike Del Vecchio -----Original Message----- From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> To: STMFC <STMFC@...> Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:45 pm Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York I'm curious, why would there be an icing station in the Bronx? Wouldn't the Bronx be a -destination- for refrigerator cars, and not so much an origin, or transit point? Was it common to have icing stations at destinations? Tim O'Connor The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Bill Schneider
Bill,
My guess (and it’s only a guess) is that the New York icing facilities would be for cars being interchanged or held for the numerous car float connections. That well known expert of everything (!) Wikipedia lists some of the operations here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_float Bill Schneider From: lnbill Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 5:03 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York Tim Your question gets at the heart of just one of the many questions I am trying to sort out about FGE operations. They would have been carrying Cranberries headed west and south, hence possibly the reason for the facility at Oak Brook. (What else were they growing in Conn. and Mass., anyone?) Another seeming anomaly: the B&O had a "Regular, All Year, Initial & Re-Icing" facility at St George on Staten Island. I am trying to figure out what they were growing on Staten Island that the SIRT railroad and the B&O were shipping out. A Reference Librarian at Cornell's Mann Library, their Agricultural Library, is trying to help me with such questions about New York produce. Bill Welch --- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Bill Welch
Tim
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Your question gets at the heart of just one of the many questions I am trying to sort out about FGE operations. They would have been carrying Cranberries headed west and south, hence possibly the reason for the facility at Oak Brook. (What else were they growing in Conn. and Mass., anyone?) Another seeming anomaly: the B&O had a "Regular, All Year, Initial & Re-Icing" facility at St George on Staten Island. I am trying to figure out what they were growing on Staten Island that the SIRT railroad and the B&O were shipping out. A Reference Librarian at Cornell's Mann Library, their Agricultural Library, is trying to help me with such questions about New York produce. Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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Right! I'd forgotten about the bananas. And yes, potatoes from Maine and
blueberries/cranberries might pass through westbound (although I suspect most long haul westbound and southbound traffic from the New Haven went via the Maybrook gateway). Tim O'Connor |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Mike Del Vecchio wrote:
New York City was also an import point for produce and many other items in society, including many slaughterhouses. Bananas, for example, were huge business, transloaded from ships and put into fleets of reefers.Those bananas weren't iced, though. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Bryan Busséy
Tim,
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Possibly because that was NH's west-end terminus from which they performed major carfloat operations to New Jersey and other points in the City. bb
On 9/2/2011 3:44 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
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MDelvec952
New York City was also an import point for produce and many other items in society, including many slaughterhouses. Bananas, for example, were huge business, transloaded from ships and put into fleets of reefers.
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....Mike Del Vecchio
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> To: STMFC <STMFC@...> Sent: Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:45 pm Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and New York I'm curious, why would there be an icing station in the Bronx? Wouldn't the Bronx be a -destination- for refrigerator cars, and not so much an origin, or transit point? Was it common to have icing stations at destinations? Tim O'Connor The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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I'm curious, why would there be an icing station in the Bronx?
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Wouldn't the Bronx be a -destination- for refrigerator cars, and not so much an origin, or transit point? Was it common to have icing stations at destinations? Tim O'Connor The Pennsylvania (50% partner with the NYNH&H of the New York Connecting |
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